When Parenting is Traumatic {EP 95}

Robyn: Now, we've been talking about the secondary trauma that can come along with parenting a child who's impacted by trauma. And I feel like that's been part of the kind of bigger conversation for, I don't know, maybe a decade or so. That- that's we're giving more and more airtime to talking about the secondary trauma and the National Child Traumatic Stress Network defines secondary traumatic stress as the emotional duress that results when an individual hears about the firsthand trauma experiences of another. So yes, it makes perfect sense that parents who are raising kids impacted by trauma are experiencing secondary trauma. But we're leaving out of that conversation, trauma, right? And the trauma of parenting kids, not just impacted by trauma, but parenting kids who have sensitized stress response systems, very vulnerable nervous systems, and these big confusing, overwhelming, baffling behaviors. Parenting these precious children, no matter how much we work hard to see them for their real selves, connect with their infinite worth, see the behavior, see- I mean, see what's driving the behavior, be underneath the behavior. No matter how hard we do that, we still are navigating big, baffling behaviors, and it can become traumatic. 

Robyn: In the previous episode, on the stress response system, I offered the definition of trauma as given by Dr. Steven Porges, who says, ‘trauma disrupts our capacity to feel safe’. And we have to remember that feeling safe, and being physically safe aren't necessarily the same thing. That our capacity to feel safe can be impacted and impacted profoundly, even if we are technically physically safe. But what we're talking about here is felt safety. And if you're newer to the podcast, and you're not familiar very much with the concept of felt safety, I'd love to direct you over to my new like special curated introductory podcast feed. That's called the Start Here podcast, several episodes there that talk about felt safety, and the connected part of the nervous system versus protected part of the nervous system, and- and the differences there. So that's at RobynGobbel.com/StartHere and you can subscribe to that special start here podcast, and kind of go in order and really deep dive into the concepts of regulation, and connection, and felt safety that this parent after trauma podcast is- is so grounded in. 

Robyn: So trauma disrupts our capacity to feel safe, and we can be safe without feeling safe. And then Dr. Bruce Perry defines toxic stress as stress that's extreme, unpredictable, and prolonged. So before we go any further, just pause for a second and ask yourself has parenting disrupted my capacity to feel safe? And has it been stress that is extreme, unpredictable and prolonged? And probably for some, many, most of y'all listening, the answer is yes, it has been. So if it's appropriate in whatever setting you're in right now, even maybe just allowing yourself to really notice that truth. That yes, parenting your child fits the category- fits the definition of trauma, fits the definition of toxic stress. And what is it like for you to notice that truth, to attune to that reality? And just ask yourself, what is- what is that like? So yes, parenting kids with sensitized stress response system, a vulnerable nervous system, and these big baffling behaviors is absolutely can- it be an experience of secondary trauma, but it is also absolutely, at times becomes just plain, ol’ actual trauma. What are the circumstances, like, what are the experiences that are in fact traumatic? Now there's hundreds, hundreds of the experiences that you have daily, that lead to our- our nervous system being impacted by trauma and toxic stress. I could never cover all of them. But I did want to attempt to gather just like a bullet list. To give you some examples of like, what are the experiences you're having that, yes, I would define as trauma. Well, the very first one that came to mind is, of course, just the- the level of dysregulation that you're experiencing in your home. The dysregulation, and the disorganization in your child's nervous system that's leading to these overwhelming, baffling, confusing and at times dangerous behaviors. And spending a lot of time in chaos, and confusion, and overwhelm, and in danger absolutely is trauma, and toxic stress. The loneliness, and the isolation, of parenting a child with any special needs, right? And when you're parenting a kid with a behavioral special need, there's this additional judgment that comes and often comes from the people who are supposed to help us the most right? But this judgment that we experience because of our cultural belief that somehow parents are responsible for their kids' behaviors, and well behaved children have good parents and bad behaved children have bad parents. And if my kids are behaving bad, I must be a bad parent, right? And because we have this kind of cultural belief, parents of kids with behavioral problems are often looked at with disdain, and with judgments. And sometimes even with contempt or disgust, like somehow, this is your fault, and you're a bad parent because of it. So the loneliness and the isolation is just- added to- it's exacerbated by this judgment that comes. And when we're chronically alone, and isolated, and judged, what happens- what our nervous system experiences are these chronic micro moments of being unseen, right? That when- you think about like the opposite- opposite of loneliness and isolation is connectedness and togetherness, right? The opposite of judgment is, you know, just nonjudgmental curiosity, right? And togetherness, and connectedness, and nonjudgmental curiosity, all lead to the experience of being seen and known. So the loneliness, and isolation, and judgment are these micro moments of being unseen. And these micro moments add up and create experience experiences, prolonged experiences, of being unseen. And being unseen is a moment of trauma, is a moment of toxic stress. So had those moments- as those moments add up, our nervous system gets stuck inside experiences of trauma and toxic stress.

Robyn: So many of the parents that I've known in The Club, and my private work with families are also navigating the stress of the helplessness that they feel and their inability to protect their other children. Right, that the siblings of kids with vulnerable nervous systems and baffling behaviors are hurting, they're struggling. They're, at times, being targeted and victimized, right? They're at times just being overlooked, right? Because their siblings' needs are so much greater than theirs. They're- the siblings are experiencing stress, and loneliness, and isolation and as caregivers feeling into like the helplessness to change our other so- our other children's experience in our family can be felt as trauma and toxic stress. Then there's the reality that what our kids need, what our family needs are things that, in many ways, don't even exist. Like the services families have of struggling children need. These services literally, in most parts of the world don't actually even exist. And- and certain unique places where they do exist, they're largely unaccessible, right? Due to geography, location, cost, the energy that goes into accessing these resources, they're just simply unacceptable- or unaccessible, for the vast majority of the families who need them the most. And coming to terms with that reality, can feel like bathing in toxic stress. 

Robyn: In a similar way, families who are experiencing gaslighting from the very people who are supposed to be helping them, professionals, and educators, people who don't believe them, or who minimize them. Or tell them something like ‘just make your kid go to school’, right? How many of y'all have been told by a professional to just make your kid do XY and Z, just demand respect, just don't allow them to do XYZ, just give them a bit- a bigger consequence, right? There's so many of these people that we're turning to for help, who are minimizing the severity of the situation, and providing resources and support that aren't supportive at all, right? They’re leaving us being completely unseen, and contributing to the loneliness. That's the sense of like, nobody can help me, nobody believes me. And then so often, that becomes, maybe they're right, and I'm wrong. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong, maybe I'm seeing this wrong. And I can tell you, I've never met a family who's come to me and said, other people are leaving me feeling as though things really aren't that bad. And I'm really the one who's wrong. I've never actually met anybody where that's been true. That the reality of what's happening in the homes of folks, with people with kids with vulnerable nervous systems, and, you know, these- these dysregulated, disorganizing, confusing. Again, that- that's- that's why I use that word baffling, that they're real. And simply because I, as a professional, have never seen your child do it. Right? Or it's hard for me to believe that it's possible doesn't mean it's- it's not true. And being not believed by all those professionals is just more experiences of being unseen. And that's exacerbated by the fact that these are the people who are supposed to help. Right? 

Robyn: There's the never ending advocacy and education, again, of the people that we're supposed to be getting help from the people, we're supposed to be helping our families, we're spending our precious time advocating for our kids, and educating them, and trying to convince them that our reality is, in fact real. And no, I've already tried all of these methods that you want to try. We've already tried all of them, they don't work and here is what does work, right? Having to be the one who educates, and then oftentimes, again, education isn't even helpful, we're not we're not believed, right? That’s traumatic. Well, there's the traumatic grief, of touching into the truth that this is not the life that you planned. Right? And then on top of that, there's the guilt, of feeling grief over the fact that this is not the life that you planned, right? And so much of that is based in again, these like cultural ideas of- of the all or nothing, or like these black and white ways of seeing the world, that we can only be grateful or we can only grieve like we can't do both, you know? That- that we can grieve for something, and still be grateful. And frankly, we don't even have to be grateful. Right? And grieving for our family, grieving for our life doesn't mean that we've- don't love our children or our family. And also grieving doesn't mean that we are giving up. Grieving for the life that we didn't have and for the life we haven't said doesn't mean that it's never going to change, it never get better. And we just have to come to terms with the fact that this just is what it isn't. It's never going to get better. That's not true, either. So there's all these, all these things that get in the way of allowing our righteous grief to just flow. That's trauma and toxic stress. 

Robyn: And then the last like bullet point that I, I came up with as I was preparing for this episode. And like I said, this is certainly not an inclusive list. But the last bullet point I came up with is all the losses that have happened in our lives because of parenting a child who really struggles. The loss of- of important relationships, for some people, the loss of job, the loss of status in their community, the loss of economic stability, and the loss of relationships with people you thought would be with you forever: extended family, close friends, and sometimes even our own parenting partners. Right? So yes, of course, parenting can, in fact, be traumatic. 

Robyn: Now, one of the good news, I'm just, it's not really good news. But you know, if we had to frame it that way, is that you've spent a lot of time learning about how to help people who've experienced trauma. And we can turn all of that information back on ourselves. We can take everything we've learned about a sensitized stress response system, nervous system vulnerability, and apply it to ourselves. Right? Everything we've learned about having a nervous system that's stuck in danger mode, stuck in protection mode, right? As opposed to connection mode. And again, if you're not familiar with that language, I do have a podcast episode called Connection or Protection. It is part of the 10 episode series in the Start Here podcast. So you can go grab that intro podcast at RobynGobbel.com/StartHere. If you're new to the concept of having a nervous system that's stuck in protection mode, right? And when we're stuck in protection mode, what happens is we develop things like compassion fatigue, burnout, or what Dr. Dan Hughes calls blocked care. There's all these words to describe what we're experiencing. But ultimately, what it comes down to is that we're experiencing trauma and toxic stress by parenting, right? It's all just about trauma and toxic stress. So those feelings of irritability, being constantly on edge, being frustrated by everything, pissed off by someone who's like even daring to talk to you, or even thinks that they need something, right? That's a nervous system that's stuck in watchdog brain. Or maybe the way you're feeling is more of a zoned out kind of spacey, emptiness, or nothingness. You're not feeling compassion for yourself or your child, and you don't care about your child's nervous system vulnerability, and in many ways, you actually don't care that you don't care. Right? That's not a bad parent. That's a nervous system stuck in the possum brain. 

Robyn: So how do we strengthen? How do we tend to? How do we bring healing to our stress response system? How do we decrease the nervous system vulnerability and spend more time in connection mode? And how do we do that before the chaos and our house changes, because if we- if we wait until that changes, we're going to be waiting a really long time. Now the reality is is that for some of you, you might not be able to invite your nervous system to come back more into connection mode, because the- the level of danger in your home is actually that severe right now. What your family needs is resources like boots on the ground real help somebody who's helping your family find safety. And it might be that in order to attend to your own nervous system, you do have to find a way for your family to experience physical safety. But my guess is that there's also a lot of you listening, who are in a position where you could look for opportunities to bring some moments of healing to your own nervous system, even before the chaos in your family changes. And not only can you but- but- but you really need to because like I said, if you- if you wait for their chaos to change, you're gonna be waiting basically, forever. And then you're never ever, ever going to feel better and you can feel better. We can come out of compassion, fatigue, burnout, blocked care, even while we're still going through really hard experiences. And I know that we can because I've walked with so many families who are- who are talking about feeling better. And I also know we can't because I've- I've had the opportunity to do that myself as well. 

Robyn: So how do we do that? Well, we give ourselves exactly the same things that we're trying to offer our kids: connection, co-regulation, and felt safety. What are we trying to give our kids? Well, we're trying to give them attunement, and validation, and connection. We're trying to see beneath their behavior, we want to give them compassion. Because of course- of course, compassion is the neurobiology of changing. And we do this while still having high boundaries, right? Doing all these things, attunement, validation, connection, but you know, seeing beneath the behavior and compassion, that's like giving our kids a free pass. That's not doing nothing to change their behavior, we still can have boundaries. And we need those things too. Right? We need attunement, validation, connection, seeing beneath the behavior, compassion and- and also boundaries, right? Now you might be able to give those things to yourself. And in- in- in many ways, that's the ultimate goal is to find ways to give our attunement and validation, connection, compassion to ourselves. Because we're who we always have, right? Like we're always there. But there's also the flip side to that reality is, we really can't give those things to ourselves if we haven't gotten them a lot from other places first, and we never stopped needing those things from other people. Like we never stopped needing attunement, and co-regulation ever. Even when we're able to give that to ourself, we still need to give it get it from other people. It's one of the most magical, glorious, rich parts of being human is that we need connection and co-regulation, always. 

Robyn: But what I also like to emphasize is that we also can learn to give those things to ourselves, it's always both, it's always the both and, right? So we need to think about where are you getting those? Where are you getting all that from? Where are you getting attunement, from? Where are you getting connection? Where are you getting co-regulation from? Now, for some of you listening, it might be this podcast. You might press play on this podcast every week, and get what I kind of call your daily- your weekly dose of co-regulation. I always thought about that for the parents who were coming into my office, even though they were bringing their kids to my office, they were bringing themselves as well, right? And by bringing themselves to my office every week, they were getting their own weekly dose of co-regulation from me. And that was allowing them to be able to make it through one more week until I got to see them again. And they got another little dose of fo-regulation. And so again, my guess is for some of you, many of you, you're getting that through this podcast. It's one of the reasons I choose to podcast because I know and I understand the power of podcasting and popping in those earbuds and- and feeling as though you're developing a relationship with the podcaster. Right? I'm familiar with the felt sense of my own body of that, but also the science of it. It's one of the reasons I chose podcasting and why I stay so committed to podcasting because I know there are people out there listening where this is it this is where you get your connection, and co-regulation. Right?

Robyn: And then I also want to encourage you to look around like scan your life and see, are there relationships that I've let go unnurtured due to the stress in my life? Are there relationships that do leave me feeling really seen, and known, and validated, and- and in relationships that give me attunement and give me compassion. And because my life has gotten so chaotic, have I let any of those relationships slip? I know, that's true for me, that when things get tough for me, I tend to go inward. And even though my whole life is about knowing about connection, and co-regulation, and the importance of prioritizing it, I too, you know, can get insulated and isolated as things get harder, right? They're like, our brain starts to play tricks on us. And we're like, I don't want to be a burden. I don't want to keep complaining to this person. They don't have time for me, nobody can- you know, like, everybody's got enough of their own problems, they don't need mine, too, right? Like our brain plays those tricks on us. And we get more isolated, and we stop connecting with the people who give us the experiences of being seen. Right?

Robyn: And I also know that when we're parenting kids with chaotic nervous systems that like there's just some real practicality to the fact that like, we can't do some of the things we used to be able to do. Like maybe I- maybe we're not going to that running club we used to go to, or to the craft night, or to Bunco, or to that weekly coffee date morning that we were having in the morning, or whatever it is the happy hour we're going to after work where we were able to connect with people. We just simply don't have time to do those things anymore, and that's causing us to feel a bit more isolated. So it's really important we get very intentional about looking for places where we feel seen and known. 

Robyn: Looking for places where we can get the connection that you need. And that you can- you can get it kind of on your terms. That's one of the reasons behind why I created The Club. I wanted to create something that you basically had 24/7 access to. And people could come and go as they please, even you know, as a therapist, it's always like, well, there's this appointment on the calendar, and it's one hour a week, and who knows if that person's nervous system is in a place for them to like, touch into you and receive what they need in that one hour. Because it's just, you know, kind of randomly assigned as an appointment on the calendar. So I really wanted The Club to be a place that was like there, whenever was needed, like whenever your nervous system is feeling drawn to get some connection, there it is. It doesn't have to be on the certain hour of this certain week. Right? That it's always there. And I can touch in and I can touch out and I can use The Club as I want to. And I can contribute to The Club and offer co-regulation when I'm- when I'm in a space for that because that's healing, right? To be offering support is healing. Somebody just recently in The Club talks about one of the things they get out of it is that they- they're reminded that they're actually not a bad parent. When they can come into the forum and actually give good suggestions, which they do. That they have a moment of reminding themselves like, Oh, I am not a bad parent, I'm actually good at this, I have some competency and that's so important. The giving is so important- as important as the receiving. And that's you know, the other thing about The Club too, is it's just like you come when- you come as you are, when you are for as long as you need to, right? And that is such an important aspect of the- the moments of healing that can accumulate for folks who need that healing in their, you know, very sensitized stress response system. 

Robyn: Dr. Perry talks about that, the moments of healing, I have a podcast all about moments of healing, it's really largely focused on kids. But again, everything we've learned about our kids, we can apply to ourselves, we can use all that knowledge to turn back on ourselves. And we need those moments of healing too and to be able to touch in and get a moment and then touch back out. And maybe two days later, three days later, or three weeks later touch back in, you know, titrating those moments of being seen and known and getting that validation. That's how the nervous system heals. Having our dysregulation held inside other people's regulation, right I was so astounded. I mean, I had a lot of goals for The Club, and I had a lot of ideas about how it was going to work. But I remember feeling just so awe- in awe at the number of people who arrive in The Club and without any observation of The Club, without any instruction. They instinctually know that what people need isn't advice, what people need is I see you, I'm not afraid of your pain. I've been in that exact same place. And it's so awful. I'm so sad for you, right? Not necessarily a, here's how you can feel better. Here's advice that I have for you, although sometimes that is absolutely what's needed and appropriate. But we often go to that too quickly. And what we really need is somebody who will say I'm here with you, in the depths of this awfulness, and I have no urgency for us to leave it, I will be here with you. And it is just mind blowing to me again, how have folks arrive in The Club knowing exactly how to do that. And in a ways it's, it's ridiculous, that is mind blowing to me, because of course, that people know that because that's what they've been longing for. They've been longing for that themselves. And so they know that what they're longing for is what other people need. And what I've found is that for the folks who come into The Club, where that might not be so instinctual. It's actually not that it's not instinctual. It's just that it's been buried underneath so many layers of hurt, that sometimes we just have to remind them that this instinct is there inside of them. And then so quickly, we have, you know, this culture of I see you and that's- that's always first. That's always before, and here's what you could do to change things right. There's always the space of prioritizing the non-judgmental, agendaless presents. And we talk about the nonjudgmental agendaless presents so much and Being With that- that's my training program where I'm training professionals to work with families in this way. We talk about the importance of that. That's the language from Dr. Bonnie Baddenoch, the non-judgmental agendaless presents, but that's what we do- and that's what we do in The Club. And that's what all of us need. Whether again, if maybe you're not getting that from The Club, and that's like- that's fine, I want you to get that from somewhere else, right? Somebody who's willing to be with you and have no agenda that you need to change, no judgments of your experience, and no fear, no fear about the intensity of what's happening, and a desire to make it stop. But just a willingness to be here, together. 

Robyn: And if you don't have a person like that, in your- in your real life, I want you to just keep coming back to this podcast, keep hitting play, right? And even re-listen to episodes, you've already listened to, just keep coming back, keep soaking in my connection, my co-regulation, the micro moments of me seeing you. And if you have those relationships and in the virtual world or in your- in your real life, go, go prioritize them, re re prioritize them, reconnect in with them. And if doing something like joining a space, like The Club is right for your family, then I want you to do that. I want you to get what you need. I want you to know that these opportunities for moments of healing, they do exist. And it's possible to access them without adding one more thing to do to your to do list. It really truly is possible. 

Robyn: So I sat down to record this episode with two main goals in mind. One, I wanted to simply just validate your reality, that parenting can be traumatic, I wanted you to know that you're aren't alone- that you're not alone. And there's more families than you can even imagine all over the globe, who are experiencing what you're experiencing. And in a way, there's- there's so much grief there, right? The grief to think like, gosh, what I'm feeling is awful. I don't want other people to feel that way. I'm so sad to know other people feel that way. And also, it's so connecting, it's so grounding to know I'm not alone. This isn't just me, and that this isn't just my family. But the other thing I wanted to do and I recorded this podcast was to offer you just a little glimmer of hope that even before the chaos changes in your family, there are things that you can do to strengthen your own stress response system to- to increase the amount of time your nervous system spends in connection mode, to gently, and curiously, and with compassion, and connection, invite your own owl brain back, right? And that these things don't have to take more time that we can lean into little micro moments of healing. And that- that connection finding places to be seen, and known, and validated is a micro moment of healing. It matters to experience being seen and known, it matters. So I want you to find a place where you can be seen and known because you deserve it. I see you. And as always, I will look so forward to seeing you back here next week.