How To Change People Pleasing Behavior {EP 83}

Robyn: What I want to talk about today is the behavior of people pleasing. It's not a behavior that I think gets talked about a lot. And in some ways, because as the parent, or as the adult, or the grownup involved, people pleasing is just not the most distressing behavior that we're dealing with. And in some ways, when we have kids who have people pleasing behaviors, this can actually make our lives a little bit easier. This is especially true if we have kids in the family that also have bigger, more dangerous, more stressful behaviors that our people pleasing kids sometimes can kind of fall under the radar. So that's totally normal. And I do think people pleasing as a behavior warrants its own episode. 

Robyn: So people pleasing isn't the same thing as cooperation, or being cooperative. Cooperation is a behavior that comes out of being in a connected, mutual relationship. When you cooperate with somebody, there's usually a compromise involved, but there's no loss of autonomy, like you don't have to give up yourself. You don't have to give up your thoughts, your desires, your preferences, you might not get what you want. Because that's what cooperation is all about. Right? There is some experience of I want something, you want something, and they're not totally the same so we have to cooperate in a way to kind of make it work and help us both feel satisfied. Right? And so because of that aspect, cooperation also requires a decent amount of frustration tolerance, and then a lot of motivation to maintain a connected relationship. People pleasing, on the other hand, is a behavior that comes from fear. People pleasing is a stress response. People pleasing involves abandoning ourselves, because it can feel too scary, or maybe too uncomfortable, to kind of regulate through the feelings that come up when there's these inevitable ruptures in relationships. And by ruptures and relationships that don't necessarily mean big things. But there's a rupture in a relationship if you want something and somebody else wants something else, or you don't have the same feelings about something. There's always- that anytime we're not in like complete attunement with one another. There's a tiny little micro rupture. And tolerating those micro ruptures is an important part of being in you know, a mutual, truly connected relationship with anybody else. People pleasing is a stress response that struggles to tolerate those micro ruptures. People pleasing behavior is commonly found in people who have a limited or let's say- let's not say limited, let's say like an under developed a sense of self. Right? That it's easy to fall into people pleasing behaviors when you don't have a real solid kind of connection or understanding to ‘who am I? What are my likes? What are my preferences?’ As well as a solid understanding of ‘I'm okay, even if this relationship feels uncomfortable for a moment, or feels rocky for a moment, or there's a rupture in this relationship’. 

Robyn: So again, people pleasing is a stress response. It's a way we abandon ourselves in order to not fall out of attunement, or connection with the other person. Regretfully, when people pleasing is involved and we're abandoning ourselves, we're also losing true connection. But it can feel like a way to stay safe, right? Like if I abandoned myself and only do things or like things that this other person likes, I'm much less likely to stress them out and therefore I'm much more likely to stay safe. Some people call this behavior fawning. I look at people pleasing behavior as a behavior that emerges from the dissociation continuum. if we're going to use Dr. Perry state dependent functioning language, the dorsal vagal complex if we're going to use poly- link- poly vagal language. In the model that I teach, I talk- I talk about the possum brain or the possum pathway. And there's different levels of kind of possum behavior that coincides with Dr. Perry’s state dependent functioning categories. And I call the behavior of people pleasing emerging from the possum brain who is a trickster possum. This is a possum, who pretends to be something that they're not in order to decrease the stress in a situation or in a relationship. 

Robyn: So again, quick little summary. I think about this people pleasing behavior as coming from the dissociation continuum, or the dorsal vagal complex, and is a behavior that comes from what I call the trickster possum. Think about like a chameleon, or this part of self that will kind of turn themselves into whatever they think is going to keep them the safest, or keep the other person the happiest with them. You can read a little bit more about what I mean when I'm talking about the possum pathway by going to RobynGobbel.com/PossumBrain. And I also go further into describing the owl, watchdog, and possum brain model and my free ebook and masterclass What Behavior Really Is that you can grab over at RobynGobbel.com/masterclass. 

Robyn: So, the trickster possum is tricky for a lot of different reasons. The Trickster possum it, like I said, kind of acts like a chameleon, always trying to figure out what mask you should wear in order to stay safe. Like who should I be in the situation in order to be the safest? I also think that this behavior is tricky- tricky or like a trickster. Because this trickster possum can seem like he's super regulated and really connected to the owl brain. Because of this, it's very easy to overlook that these behaviors are a stress response. They're coming from a part of the nervous system that's in distress. It is just a stress response behavior that's pretty different than most stress response behaviors, which we tend to find stressful, right? Like most of our kids' behaviors that emerged from a stress response, we find stressful. People pleasing behavior, you gotta really know what you're looking for to recognize it as distress and to feel stressed about it. And we'll talk a little bit about why people pleasing behavior is something that we should feel stressed about. Why it is something that we should want to address, because it is actually a pretty dangerous behavior. We'll talk about that in a bit. 

Robyn: The number one thing to do if you're parenting a kid with a lot of people pleasing behaviors is to do exactly what I just said. Recognize this as a stress response behavior. That you know, some kids have a lot of different stress response behaviors. So there could be times where you have a child who's real people pleasing but is also sometimes oppositional or aggressive. Those are easier to recognize as a stress response. So start looking at these people pleasing behaviors also as a stress response. Believe it or not, just how we look at the behavior is an intervention. So number one thing to do is just see it for what it is, recognize it as a behavior of distress. One of the things that can be true about these trickster, people pleasing possum kids is that this is a stress response or a coping skill that they've had for a very, very, very long time. And because they've been practicing this skill of ‘I will just be whoever you need me to be’. They- they have either forgotten who they are, or weren't ever really sure in the first place. So a really important part of supporting these people pleasing, trickster possum kids is helping them discover themselves. Helping them come into connection with who they are. So these kids need a lot of opportunity to express themselves in safe ways. To be allowed to express themselves, and to be allowed to experiment with expressing themselves, and to be allowed to change their minds. 

Robyn: So one of my kind of general rule of thumbs is if it's safe, say yes. This is my general rule of thumb for tricks your possum kids. Other kids need different ways to help them find felt safety. Trickster or possum kids need lots of opportunity to experiment with discovering themselves, and finding out what they like, and what they don't like. So for these kids in particular, if it's safe, say yes. Do they want to have purple hair? Sure, say yes. Are they going to wear mismatched clothes? Or like maybe when my kid was younger, they weren’t mismatched, they were like, matchy matchy, right? Like orange shirts, orange pants isn't exactly matching. But it was like too much matching. But you know, whatever. Yes. You want to have 12 ponytails in? Yes. Right? Listen to this kind of music. Yes. If it's safe and you have a trickster possum kid who is really working to know who they are, what they like, and- and really fine and connected with them- themselves. Say yes. It is dangerous to be out in the world, not knowing who you are, what you like, what your boundaries are, what your preferences are, what kind of behavior is acceptable to you when you're in relationship with someone else. And so we really want to help these trickster or people pleasing, possum kids find out who they are. Which means we have to be very flexible, and allowing them to really experiment. So this might be a kid who's like, I want purple hair. And then tomorrow, they say, I hate this purple hair. Can we make it blue instead? Yes. Right? They're expressing an opinion they're experimenting with what do I like? What do I don't like sometimes these kids don't know what they like until they try. And then they try and they're like, ‘Ooh, I don't like this after all’. Right? And then it's I don't want this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. These aren't kids who need us to teach them how to stick with a commitment. These are kids who need us to honor their expression of their preferences and allow them to change their mind. 

Robyn: Think about it even with food, right? Because they can express a food preference and you can honor it with what they eat, or what they don't eat. Right? We want these kids to really have experiences where they get to learn I am me, my feelings and my preferences are valid, and I can express them without repercussion. Now without repercussion doesn't mean always get my way. Right? Like that's not reasonable in a lot of ways. Without repercussion means the person I express my feelings to are- is responsible for taking care of their feelings. 

Robyn: So a quick example from my own life and something we should really pay attention to is allowing my kid who has a lot of opinions about food, specifically, the sensory experience with food. And I have a husband who loves, loves, loves to cook. It's one of like the primary ways he expresses how much he loves us and takes care of us. Now obviously, sometimes these two things can come into conflict with each other. And so in our family, we had to be very aware of allowing my child to express how he feels about food and not taking it personally. And teaching my son to express those things in a respectful way, right? He doesn't have to like something simply because somebody put in the time and effort to make it for him, right? Like his preferences are not less important than my husband feeling as though somebody is grateful that he made this food. Both have valid needs and experiences. And my son can express, ‘I don't care for this’. He is allowed to have that opinion. And then as the grown ups, it's our job not to take it personally, and then try to negotiate this, right? Like, there's a lot that goes into this. And it's changed over the years. Sometimes it's reasonable to have alternatives. Sometimes it's not reasonable to have alternatives. It's, you know, what we do next is pretty nuanced. And again, it's changed over the years. My point is that we have needed to make sure that we allow for that expression, because my son's preferences, sense of self, likes and dislikes are as important as my husband's feelings. Like one doesn't get to trump the other. That's where cooperation comes in. Like, how can both of these people have their autonomy and their own needs respected? And mostly, this just comes down to finding appropriate ways to communicate, and then honoring each other's needs in a cooperative way. Maybe you have a trickster pasta and brain kid who has decided they want to try soccer or gymnastics, or underwater basket weaving. I don't know. Right? And they want to try and you say, yes, let's sign you up. And then in one week, they say, ‘oh, I don't really like this after all’. Right? Some kids need the experience of learning to stick with things they don't love. But trickster possum brain kids need the experience of knowing, you know, being in relationship with somebody who will honor their self exploration of what they like, and what they don't like.

Robyn: Alright, again, these aren't kids that we have to teach how to have enough frustration tolerance to do stuff that they don't really want to do. These are kids who are doing stuff they don't really want to do all the time, they already have that skill. We want to teach them the other skill that they can have wants and needs and preferences that are different from other people and it can be okay. With these kids, I think it’s really helpful to use the behavior of- the parenting behavior of becoming what I call a sportscaster. This is a common behavior for therapists, something that child play therapists use a lot. Which is just narrating what you're seeing. It's not good or bad. It's not pleasing or not pleasing. You're just narrating, ‘oh, you want to wear those leggings every day, you must really like something about those leggings. Are they soft? Are they warm?’ Alright. Or that's a way that we're helping a child who maybe doesn't even know that they have preferences about things. But when we narrate for them, like, ‘oh, you wear those leggings every day, you must like something about them’. Now we are giving them a mirror that's helping them see, well, there must be something they like about them, or they wouldn't wear them every day. What is it? What is it about those leggings that they like? The other thing about this is, this is sometimes a pretty frustrating behavior for parents, right? Kids who wear the same clothes every single day, parents can feel frustrated by this for multiple different reasons. And so there's probably some negative energy surrounding this behavior. And so shifting that negative energy can be really beneficial. And instead looking at it from a place of curiosity on our part, you know, is the grown ups part of like, oh, what is it about this thing that I would call rigid? What is it about this- that- that- why is this child choosing this? There's got to be something. So that's a way of helping kids discover that they even have preferences or things that they like more- more than other things. 

Robyn: Another example is you could say something like, ‘I noticed that when we have mac and cheese, you always ask for seconds. When we have spaghetti with meat sauce, there's usually some left on your plate. I wonder if that means you like mac and cheese more?’ Or your child might not even answer, right? A real people pleaser might not even answer because they're still really worried about like, ‘uh-oh what's the right answer?’ Right? But providing them the feedback what you've noticed about them is a way of helping them notice and come to know themselves. If you think about it, we do this with babies constantly. This is how babies learn about their preferences, and likes, and like who they are. Because we're constantly narrating, for babies like, ‘oh, you picked up their rattle again, you must love that rattle. Oh, what a big smile you have!’ Or ‘ooh, that look on your face when I'm giving you this avocado. Oh, you must think this avocado is so yucky, right?’ And then when our babies give us cues about things they like, we tend to give them more of those things. And when they give us cues about things they don't like, we tend to give them less of those things. And so they're learning. People respect my boundaries. It's okay for me to have things I like, and I don't like. People notice those things about me. And there's nothing wrong with them, even if it's different than what my mom or dad like, right? So- so much comes into that kind of sportscasting behavior that we do and our kids are little. We can do that when they're- when they're older now, as well. 

Robyn: We can also overtly, like really clearly teach kids that it's okay to have preferences that are different than other people. And that it's that other person's job to tolerate their own feelings about it. So let's say you have two little kids, and one of them is more of a people pleaser than the other. And you notice that they're always watching the TV show that your non-people pleasing kid likes. Alright? And so maybe you say something to your people pleaser child that says sound something like ‘hmm, you really like Peppa Pig. And I know your brother really likes Paw Patrol. I notice you both watch way more Paw Patrol than Peppa Pig. Next time, let's watch Peppa Pig. Your brother can watch with us, or he doesn't have to. If he doesn't like it, he can take a break and play something else. Either is a fine choice’. So really explicitly teaching, it's okay if what you like and want isn't the same as what other people like and want. And it's okay for them to be upset by that. And it's okay for them to either do something they don't love or choose to do something else. It will be fine, both are- that is a- that is a fine choice to make. It’s a valid choice to make. So really be explicitly teaching that and then supporting these kids with the follow through and supporting you know, regulating them when their brother is upset.

Robyn: One final thing I want to say about people pleasing behavior is that I'm a people pleaser. And so, as a parent, I've been on the lookout for two things. One is: when I'm unconsciously expecting my son to have people pleasing behavior too. Because- it- way deep in my mind, like not in my conscious thoughts. But way, way, way deep buried in my mind, I can have a belief that prioritizing other people's feelings is how you stay safe. And I have definitely watched myself and really track myself and try to pay attention to times when I am behaving in a way in which when I'm communicating to my son is ‘if you want to be okay, you have to prioritize keeping other people happy’. And I've noticed this in different time periods in his life at when him being his, like strong minded, autonomous self has caused me stress. And I watch him do this with his peers or with teachers, right? And I can notice myself wanting to like rush in and just say ‘oh, it's okay. It's okay, this isn't a big deal. Go ahead and just’, you know, I really want him to use my coping skill and kind of like abandon himself so that it doesn't rock the boat. So that's something I've really paid attention to in parenting him is that I don't kind of project that onto him. Because it's simply not true. He can be himself and still be safe. 

Robyn: The other thing that I pay attention to, because these kinds of things come out unconsciously. Is that our kids learn so much more from what we're doing than what we're saying. And so there's definitely times where he watches me behave in a way that I would call people pleasing. I do that with the family. I do that with friends. I do that with- you know, like our extended family. I do that with colleagues and in my business. It's- it's something I work really, really, really hard on, and try to be very mindful of, but certainly at times still fall into these, you know, people pleasing patterns. And he notices. And he's watching and, even if he's not consciously aware of it, the way that the mind works, and the way that our memory networks work, and the way that we're learning. We learn so much more just based on what we're watching and what people actually say to us. So I've had to just really pay attention to that. And I'm not shaming myself. I'm not being critical of myself. I'm not blaming myself for this, or giving myself a really hard time. It’s something I've worked really hard on being compassionate towards myself, and just really pay attention in really noticing. And sometimes talk about when I've noticed I did have kind of people pleasing behavior, and to circle back around to him and say, hey, I did this, I wonder if you noticed. I did this because it's stressful for me when other people are unhappy. The truth is- is it's okay to have an opinion that other people don't like. It's okay to want something other people don't like. In a cooperative relationship, in a connected relationship with people I love. We're always, you know, compromising. And that's different than people pleasing. So I can do both. Like I can pay really close attention to my behaviors, and then when I notice myself kind of falling into these patterns, I can help a little bit by making them really explicit and talking very overtly to my son about them. Now, he's a little bit older, if you have little teeny, tiny kids, how that, you know, what that sounds like, and looks like might be a little bit different. But I think giving our kids a narrative for what's happening, and so many circumstances is actually profoundly important.

Robyn: [audible deep breath] All right, so people pleasing. Yeah, I wanted to tackle that, I hope that this maybe has given you a few insights into thinking about people pleasing behavior, and some ideas about how to support your child and maybe yourself. If you notice patterns of people pleasing. People pleasing, again, like I said, at the beginning, it might not seem as dangerous as some of your other kids' big behaviors, or maybe the same kids’ other big behaviors. But people pleasing behavior can become quickly dangerous. These are kids who can be easily taken advantage of. They are kids who have a really hard time setting their boundaries, or even knowing what their boundaries are. And so as they get older, and they're not in your direct supervision as much anymore, and they're outside, out in the world, doing things that you know, older kids and teenagers are doing, which is you know, experimenting with their values. Experimenting with what feels good for them, what doesn't feel good to them. Experimenting with, you know, going outside their, you know, kind of even family values. Experimenting with drugs, or alcohol, or sex, or other risky behaviors. Kids who are people pleasers are at much greater risk of experimenting with things far past where their comfort zone really is. Largely because they're not even sure what their comfort zone is. And if they do know what it is, they don't have the skills that they need to tolerate setting a boundary and having somebody else be upset with them or reject them. Or even if it's not that big- even if it's not that big of like an overt rejection, it's still a- it's still a you know, a rupture in a relationship. And we really want to help these kids develop the capacity to know who they are, know what their values are, know where that kind of point of ‘no, I'm not comfortable with this anymore’. Is know how to say those things and know how to tolerate the like- the repercussions of the consequences of that which is that somebody else might be upset with them. So even if it doesn't seem like a really dangerous behavior, it can become a really dangerous behavior in the future. 

Robyn: All right. I'll be back next week. I can't wait. I am getting these podcasts ready- already for you so that you have one every single week, you can head to RobynGobbel.com/podcasts to see all my podcasts archives/ It has a search bar. So if you have a topic you're interested in, or if you remember, like, ‘oh, I heard a podcast about lying once and now I can't find it’. You can head to RobynGobbel.com/podcasts, you can search for terms like lying, control, manipulation, self compassion. Those kinds of things, and they'll show you, you know, one of my old podcast episodes and blog posts are really, you know, are about those topics. I got all sorts of other good stuff over on my website, RobynGobbel.com/FreeResources has ebooks, and video master classes. Of course, you can learn all about The Club, which is my membership community for parents of kids with big baffling behaviors. Where we have a forum we have live events, we have this huge on demand video library of trainings. And then my year long immersion program for professionals who want to do the work that I'm doing with the parents in their practice that's called Being With. There's a waiting list going for Being With right now. Applications will open sometime this summer for the 2023 cohort. So all that over at RobynGobbel.com I will see you here next week.