Silliness As A Sign Of Dysregulation {EP 167}

Robyn: Today let's talk about when silliness is a sign of dysregulation. This can be a confusing one because it can start off looking cute, or fun, or playful. And either it like shifts over into something that all of a sudden just isn't really fun anymore. Or it kind of never really was fun from the very beginning but you couldn't really put your finger on exactly what was wrong, right? There wasn't physical aggression, there wasn't rude language, there wasn't a lot of the more, kind of, traditional, fight, Watchdog behaviors. And then it can feel a little tricky to put our fingers on the fact that like oh, yeah, this is Watchdog behavior too, this is protection mode. This is dysregulation. And silliness absolutely can emerge from a nervous system that's in protection mode. Remember that the nervous system has these two sides, connection mode or protection mode. And when the nervous system is in connection mode and it's experiencing mostly cues of safety, playfulness can emerge from what we would maybe call a mixed state or a hybrid state. I picture as like the Owl and the Watchdog playing together in safety and connection. Because if we break the metaphor a minute, remember, sympathetic activation isn't only fight or flight, sympathetic activation simply means activation, mobilization, energy. It is when the neuroception shifts to danger. That sympathetic activation is going to shift into fight flight, protective energy. And so let's go back to the metaphor, we can have the Owl brain, Owl pathway, bring safety and connection to the energy that the Watchdog brings. And we can have the Owl and the Watchdog play together and be connected in safety and connection, but with some energy and activation, like play, for example.    

Robyn: But the behavior of something that looks like playfulness, or silliness, absolutely can emerge from a nervous system that's in protection mode. And this is where we start to see this playfulness, silliness, that is just not really feeling very good. It's not feeling very connected, you are feeling maybe a little bit reserved, or a little reticent. Or maybe there's this feeling of like, what's going on here, like this should be fun but it doesn't actually feel fun. So we might be seeing again, like these behaviors of playfulness and silliness. But instead of coming from a nervous system in connection mode, they're coming from a nervous system in protection mode. So how do we tell the difference? I have found that the best way for me to tell the difference is by paying attention to how I feel. And then getting curious about that, because being with somebody who's in protection mode doesn't feel great. I don't typically want to lean into being with them. I don't necessarily want to like heighten those feelings of connection, there can be a sense of, I don't really want to be here, or I wish this would stop. Or maybe even it can move all the way into like a disgust feeling. And I know, most of us are pretty reluctant to admit that sometimes we feel like yucky or disgust towards other people, but especially our kids. But what I would love to encourage you to do is again, to see that as information, just like your kids behaviors is information, so are yours. And so when we feel kind of this, like disgust or rejecting, get away, kind of sensations, we can pause and get curious. Is my child in protection mode? It could be that they're not, right? It could be that we're feeling especially sensitive or vulnerable. And anybody attempting to connect with us, in a playful way even, is going to be met with our kind of defensive energy or get away energy because we're just not feeling it. Right? So certainly, those kinds of feelings disgust, irritation, confusion, certainly could be about our nervous system being in connection mode, or I'm sorry, in protection mode, and not theirs. But it's a great place to just get extra curious. If you're feeling kind of disgusted, irritated, confused, by behavior that could be labeled silly or playful. This is a great moment to pause and say, Is this about me? Am I just, like, not feeling, you know, open to playfulness right now? Or is this about the fact that my kids behavior is actually sending mixed messages, right? There's this like playful quality, kind of, but also it feels yucky. Like if maybe it feels kind of like frantic or right on the edge.    

Robyn: Another thing to cue into actually could be the rhythm of the energy. Connection mode energy tends to have a rhythm to it a fluidity to it. So even if it's high, high, high energy, there's still a rhythm or a fluidity to it. Whereas energy that's coming from protection mode doesn't have that same rhythmic fluid quality. It can feel like a-rhythmic, it can feel kind of jerky or disjointed. It can feel irregular, right? And so that's another great way to notice, hmm, is this coming from protection mode or connection mode? My dear, dear friend, colleague, and friend, Marti Smith offers us a lot about noticing the rhythms and the energy of our kids behaviors. Marti is an occupational therapist, she wrote the book, The Connected Therapist, which is a fantastic book for parents that looks at the sensory system. And I'm not talking about this being for parents who have kids with, like sensory processing disorder, all of our kids have sensory systems, all of us have sensory systems, right? And so learning how to be familiar with those, and connected with those, is really important and can really demystify some confusing behavior. So if you haven't read Marti's book, The Connected Therapist, I highly, highly, highly recommend you do that. It also is actually offered as a bonus to folks in the club. So if you are in the club, or if you're hoping to join the club, just know that that's a bonus that's available for all club members. And I highly recommend that as a resource.     

Robyn: Okay, so let's get back to silliness as a sign of dysregulation, so I gave you some things to kind of look for that can suggest to you hmm, this is not really playful, right? This silliness is really not silly. This is just information about dysregulation. I will call this- if we're going to look at the watchdog pathway as having both fight and flight behavior, right? Fight behaviors, when we kind of use our arms and our legs to kind of go at the stressor, right? Whereas Flight Behavior is where we would use our arms and our legs and our energy to get away from the stressor. And so, silliness, I tend to see as a flight of behavior that is more energetically fleeing, then actually physically fleeing. And so often times, this happens when physically fleeing maybe isn't possible. And the silliness can be this energetic flight, which could be from this external, you know, stressor- something in the environment or relationship, but also could be from an inner stressor, that sometimes kids- as a way to avoid feeling hard feelings; Also, adults do this too. This is a great strategy I employ actually- sometimes we will flight, we will flee from our own inner stressors and inner feelings of being uncomfortable. And that can emerge as this dysregulated, this silly, pseudo-playfulness. Now, because silliness does have this kind of pseudo-playful feeling, the very best way I have found to kind of be with this energy, and to help it shift more into connection mode is through play and playfulness. Playfulness, again, is sympathetic activation. Its mobilized energy, but with safety in connection. So I have lots of thoughts and ideas I'm going to offer up to you in this episode, I'm going to direct you to places you can get more thoughts and ideas. And I also want to say, listen y'all, your mileage may vary on these kinds of ideas. Y'all are probably all familiar with that kind of space of playfulness going either way. Right?    

Robyn: Playfulness sometimes can be well received. And sometimes playfulness on our part as a way to bring connection and safety to our kids is not well received at all, right? It can one increase the dysregulation, right? And so this like, an edge silliness, like goes totally over the edge, right? Into total out of control silliness, so that can happen. But also playfulness can be experienced by the dysregulated nervous system as maybe mocking, right? Like it's just perceived negatively, because of the nervous system already neuroceiving danger and being in protection mode. So again, your mileage may vary. The thing about play and playfulness, and kind of trying to lean into our kids dysregulation in this way, is that it's all about experimenting. It's all about trying something and seeing what happens next, and trusting that even if what happens next is it bad, that you'll still find a way out of this, that you'll still eventually move through the dysregulation. So you kinda have to be brave enough to try. And trust what you know about your kid. That some of the things I'm gonna suggest you're gonna know immediately like, oh, no, like that would totally dysregulate my kids. So for example, I talk a lot about balloons. Balloons are probably be like the most utilized thing- Prop in my play therapy room. And for some kids even seeing a balloon, like tipped them over the edge into like, out of control, maniacal dysregulation. So I would say probably like 90% of the kids I worked with balloons were a super great way to help co-organize and co-regulate movement and energy. But for some kids, it was, it was absolutely the wrong choice strategy. And y'all I didn't know that till I tried it, right? We're not mind reader's. So we kind of have to try things, or we have to know what we know about our kids and trust that you know that about your kids.     

Robyn: So if you have read Raising Kids With Baffling Behaviors, you've been in a training of mine, are you are in the club and you've done these trainings in the library, you might remember that the first level of activation on the Watchdog pathway, that 'What's Up?' Watchdog still has some connection to the Owl brain. And so we might be able to get away with using some ways of offering connection, and safety, and co-regulation, that utilize the Owl brain. So utilize words or language. So if you've got some, you know, low-level dysregulated silliness, one thing you might try is to engage with your child or respond to them when using words and language, but to do it in a silly playful way. And then you might even ask them to match you, the way that you're responding to them. And so what are some examples of silly playful ways to still use language with our kids? Talking like a whale, like thinking back to 'Finding Nemo' and talking whale like, right? Or getting really quiet and talking in a whisper, or talking.. short.. and.. really.. clicked.. like.. this.. you know, or maybe talking super, super loud or, SiNgInG aLl YoUr WoRdS tO yOuR kIds, right? So you can still use some of these, 'What's Up?' Watchdog ideas, right? And again, head to the book or to the trainings or to the club library to get real specific on those. But utilize silliness, as you, kind of, try to implement some of those strategies. I think the technique of doing something really silly or unexpected can be helpful for our kids. Like anytime our kids are expecting one thing and instead something outrageous happens, that can be really helpful and kind of inviting their nervous system back into connection, and safety, and regulation. My guess is what's happening in the brain is this big, like neurochemical dump, because of the surprise, and because of the unexpected, and that invites in some regulation. I'm going to tell you all, this is not my go to strategy, because I'm bad at this, I believe it or not, I'm not super creative in the moment. And I'm not super inherently playful in the moment. I need like a word bank of sorts, and then I can maybe kind of draw on them. But I'm not super creative in the moment. I do, however, have a colleague who is really, really gifted at coming up with these unexpected ideas. And I haven't asked her yet, but I'm going to ask her if she'll be a guest on the podcast, and connect with you all and offer up some of her kind of silly unexpected ways that she has played around with that have at times brought some regulation to an otherwise very dysregulated situation.     

Robyn: When I'm thinking about silliness as dysregulation, remember I said that dysregulation brings in a disruption to our body rhythms, right? So our movements tend to get less rhythmic, our breathing even gets less rhythmic. And one way, then, to help intensity and activation, move into regulation and connection, is to help- what I would call co-organize, to bring rhythm and regulated movement to the a-rythmic or dysregulated movement. For here, I really turned to Dr. Bruce Perry's work in his teachings on rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences, which one, helped to strengthen and co-organize and regulate these the lowest parts of the brain, right? Think about teeny tiny babies who still- like we're really working on strengthening and in regulating the very lowest parts of their brains, like their brainstem, and their autonomic nervous system, right? We do a lot of rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences, with babies rocking, bouncing, things like that, right? And so as our kids get older, we can still lean into the concepts of rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory, which is fantastic, because lots of play based activities and experiences are exactly that. Rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory. So what could that mean? Maybe, your silly kid, you could invite into a dance competition, or you could invite into doing some jumping jacks, and it can start silly and then move into being a little bit more rhythmic. This is where we could pick up a balloon or blow a balloon, because blowing balloons actually can be pretty regulated, as long as you're capable of blowing a balloon and you're not allergic to them. Blowing balloons is requires a lot of strength, righy? And so for some kids blowing balloons is really just regulating because they can't do it. And that's super frustrating. But blowing up a balloon and having all that breath can be regulating, playing balloons and getting involved in something that's rhythmic, repetitive, relational, can be so helpful. I used to keep balloon, seriously, just at arm's reach. And I was just sort of lob them over to a kid. Balloons don't travel very hard or fast so they're not going to hurt a child if the child doesn't like receive it, right? And is not going to hurt me, for the most part if a child like, you know, whips it back in my face- like a ball could hurt, right?    

Robyn: So balloons always felt like mostly a safe thing to experiment with. And sometimes when I was possibly into a child, they would kind of toss it to themselves, right? Like they'd get in this kind of rhythmic game of where they're just playing with a balloon themselves. And it's becoming kind of rhythmic as they're using their hands to keep the balloon in the air. And then sometimes that could turn into a more back and forth balloon game. So many things that kids like to do and play with, or do outside have a rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory quality to it, like running, jumping, skipping, playing ball, doing pogo sticks. I mean, there's so many things that if you pause for a second and look at them- like oh, that's rhythmic, repetitive, relational, and somatosensory. Somatosensory just means a sensory system that is like the touch system, the proprioceptive system, the pressure as proprioception, I mean, it's a very oversimplified way of talking about proprioception. But the somatosensory is like the sensory system that is, you know- especially in your body, touch, pressure, those things.     

Robyn: So back and forth games. And you can use other things that I said. Balloons, balls, feathers, cotton balls, bubbles, and y'all, anytime you do something that's tends to be an outside thing, and you do it inside, for example, like bubbles, that surprise and delight can be really helpful bringing into regulation as well. Let me just give you a super important pro tip. Never ever, ever, ever give bubbles to a dysregulated child, hold the bubbles yourself, dip the wand yourself and, you know, use those no spill bubble things, okay? But don't give bubbles to dysregulated kids, they're going to dump them out either on purpose, or by accident. And then people are going to feel upset by that. Gross motor movement like I said, running jumping, animal walks, dancing, right? Think about the ways we move our bodies on the earth and they have a rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory quality to them. And if you have a kid who's not very energetic or gross motor inclined, you can still use movement, like walking is rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory.     

Robyn: If you're listening as a Club member, I want to highlight to you that there is a training in the video library that we actually don't talk about very much because it wasn't a masterclass. It was a training I did for an outside organization and they allowed me to have it and use it in the club. So sometimes I kind of even forget that it's there. There's an entire six-hour training, y'all, in the club library, about regulating the body with movement-based interventions. And I really think this is one of the best ways to co-organize and regulate that like, silly playful that's not silly, or playful kind of energy. I also have this two-page kind of infographic handout. Again, if you're listening and you're in the club, there's this two-page infographic that handles like a play- I call it a play bank because again, y'all I need ideas. I need like a word bank. So I have that as like a playful, play bank.    

Robyn: This way of being with our kids, using movements to regulate dysregulation is a great time to practice matching the energy but without the dysregulation. So there, I do have a podcast episode called that. It's episode 155. And it originally aired last October, and so you just have to scroll back a bit to get to the, "Match The Energy, NOT The Dysregulation" episode. And again, if you're listening in the club, we have a full hour-long training on matching the energy. That idea- that concept of matching the energy and having some activation in our body, without joining our children's dysregulation. That idea- that technique is the perfect idea for dysregulation that comes out as a silliness or pseudo-playfulness. And it is a much more effective way to invite in and offer up-regulation, connection and felt safety than simply try to get our kids to calm down. And I know when there's this kind of frenetic, frantic energy, that our instinct is like, how do we get this energy under control? How do we get this energy down? How do we get them to, quote-unquote, calm down, like, that's my instinct and energy too. And I want you to think about approaching that energy as if you're, kind of, spinning the jump rope for them and you're inviting them to take the energy that they have, and simply move into a more rhythmic experience with that energy. So it's not the most perfect metaphor, but that really is what I think as I imagined myself, like, you know, when we were kids, and we would like, set the tone for the jumper, right? We would- spin the jump rope. I don't- I don't know what the right word is, I don't know. I'm blanking on it. But we'd move the jump rope in a really rhythmic way. And then our friends would try to jump into it and like join into that rhythm and do it seamlessly.    

Robyn: I think about that energy, when I think about using this match the energy without the dysregulation approach, and especially for the playful, out-of-control dysregulation like that. That I want to match that energy, I want to help- I'm not trying to change their energy. I'm trying to organize a rhythm of that energy and I'm trying to do it in a way where we're working together. That's why that jump rope metaphor and image in my brain sometimes helps.    

Robyn: Now once movements are rhythmic. It might actually feel good for y'all to stay energized and playful and high energy. It's generally speaking, not the high energy that feels bad. We think it's the high energy that feels bad, but it's not the high energy that feels bad, it's the dysregulation of the high energy that can feel bad. So sometimes parents find that once they get that energy a little more regulated, a little more organized, it feels fine to stay playful, and energize. And typically, downregulation, moving towards calm, will happen just naturally. You can also once you're connected, and co-organized, and co-regulating with your child. You could offer some very deliberate, quote-unquote, downregulating experiences. Like taking a deep breath, for example, or engaging in some nice proprioception, like giving self a hug or giving each other a hug, right? Sometimes, we can be very intentional of then offering up downregulating experiences. But we want to do that only after we're connected to one another. Now, maybe you have a child who isn't likely to move into big gross motor kind of energy, like they- their natural proclivity isn't to move their bodies in really big ways. And we can still use the same ideas, rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory, fun co-organizing of the silliness, and just do it with smaller movements, right? Like, crafting, baking, right? That's rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory. Shaving cream in the bathtub, pulling out water beads, thumb wrestling, right? Like, we can take the same concepts, but use smaller, less energetic movement.     

Robyn: Now my very final way I'm going to suggest as a way to bring some co-organization and some regulating energy to silliness- or that dysregulated fun, that's not really fun. By the way, I'm not suggesting we need to stop silliness. I'm talking about dysregulated silliness. I'm sorry, if I'm not being clear enough in that. Silliness is a great way to practice regulated intensity. Silliness is a great way to practice this. I'm not trying to stop silliness. But it's that, like, silliness that doesn't feel quite so fun is really what I'm talking about. But one of my favorite ways to connect with kids who have this extra energy that's moving towards, or tipping into dysregulation, is by playing with lycra. You know, lycra, that stretchy, kind of tight material that we make Under Armour out of, or leggings, or bathing suits, right? There are so many super fun ways to bring in lycra. Generally speaking, because lycra is a pretty inherently regulating for most folks, not for everyone, but for most folks- lycra is inherently regulating, most of us are drawn to lycra play. Not all, but most. Like when I teach- I have a movement workshop that I used to teach and when I would bring out the lycra for the lycra replay, the whole energy in the room went, "Uh huh (sigh). There's all this anticipatory- they couldn't wait to play with it. And my friend Marti, that I mentioned at the very, very beginning of this episode, is the literally- okay, maybe not literally, but the lycra queen. And she's kind of known for- what Marti is known for us is taking normal household things and using them to support our kids and our bodies. She is brilliant at that particular skill. And specifically with lycra.    

Robyn: So while I was outlining this episode- I was sitting on an airplane while I was outlining this episode, and I got to this part where I was like, oh, I'll talk about lycra. And then I was like, wait a minute, Marti can talk about lycra! So I texted Marti, and I said, hey, would you come into the club in would you do a masterclass all about ways to use lycra to support our kids. And so that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do that in March. Marti also does have some free resources on her website. And I will put those in the show notes. And a couple of those are specific to lycra. So if you're like, oh, I would love to learn about how to do lycra, but you're also like, yeah, I'm not gonna join the Club. There's some free resources I'm going to direct you to you. But if you want to dive in even further, get a lot of hands on support, be able to connect with Marti, ask her questions- Marti participates in the forum and the club as well. The club might be something you want to try out. The club is a monthly membership experience. So it's something that like recurs every month, but there's no requirements on how long you stay in the club. So you can come for one month and leave. So Marti said yes, we're going to, in the club, in March, do an entire hour all about using lycra to invite play, and connection, and regulation, and connection to our bodies. That was one of the things I as a mental health therapist noticed that was such a positive use of Lycra, and then I think it's overlooked by a lot of mental health therapists, is this way that mental wellness involves being connected safely to our bodies. And playing with lycra was such a lovely way to experiment with that and play around with that. I had an aerial yoga hammock hung in my office when I was a play therapist, body socks. I mean, I just did so much with lycra.    

Robyn: So I have given you, I hope, a whole lot of ideas about one, how to kind of shift how we see that like, kind of, yucky, silliness feeling, how we can see that as dysregulation, we can see that as Watchdog energy, how we can kind of lean in to that energy, and offer connection, co-regulation, co-organization. I've given you a lot of resources and places you can go check stuff out, especially my friend, Marti, and also that Match The Energy episode. All that stuff's free and accessible to everyone. No, Marti's book is not free. But it's inexpensive, it's probably $10, I think. So I'll get all of that into the show notes. And if you want to dive even deeper into all of these ideas, you want some support around them, you want to be able to talk to others. And again, this is just a teeny tiny bit of what's available over in the club, then we would absolutely love to invite you to come join us in the club. This is such a special place of connection and co-regulation for the adults. I mean, people come to get ideas about how to parent, and we get lots of those. But they stay because they say, 'there's no other place like this on the internet,' they stay because they say, 'I can come here and be honest and be myself and there's no there's no judgment towards my kids. There's no judgments toward me. Yet we are all still, you know holding each other to the standards of wanting to be in relationship with our kids through connection, co-regulation, and felt safety.' 

Robyn: So the club is a super magical place because of the members who come to the club and the care and love that they give to one another. So we'd love to have you if you want to come check it out. If you're hearing this episode, between February 27th and March 5th, 2024. The club is open. If you're hearing this episode at a different time, come check out RobynGobbel.com/theclub, and if we're not open you can get yourself on the waiting list. 

Robyn: This was a very fun episode for me to outline and deliver, as you can probably tell, I just smiled through the whole thing. I love using movement and being with our kids with this rhythmic, relational, somatosensory energy as a way to help support regulation. It's not a cure-all. It's not going to always work. But it is something worth experimenting with. And I hope that just having a little more understanding will, you know, help encourage you to have the confidence to try some of these ideas with your kids. Alright, y'all it was wonderful to be with you again this week. As always, I will see you back here again next week for another episode of The Baffling Behavior Show. Bye Bye!