Why So Controlling? {EP 193}

Robyn: We talk a lot on this podcast and, of course, in the book, Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, about protection mode versus connection mode. So if you're new to the podcast and you're unfamiliar with the language, connection mode versus protection mode of a very, very, very early podcast about connection versus protection, I will make sure that gets linked in the show notes, or you can scroll way, way, way back into your podcast app to episode seven, connection or protection through the lens of connection mode versus protection mode, controlling behavior, controlling of ourselves or controlling of someone else, is a sign of protection mode or a sign of a very, very, very narrow window of tolerance. A window of tolerance that's so narrow the person has to give a lot of effort, a lot of effort, to staying in connection mode, and one of the ways that they do that is by being extremely controlling. Now remember that protection mode is about two things. It's about protecting yourself and returning to safety. Sometimes we forget that part. We get focused on the protection part. But protection isn't just about protecting self. It's about returning to safety all humans, every single human on this planet. When we get stressed and fall into protection mode, we get more controlling. This is a universal human feature. You're seeing it so intensely in your kids, because your kids are so intensely in protection mode. This is a normal human characteristic. Sometimes when we're in protection mode, we get more controlling of ourselves. So that could look like becoming really rigid, really perfectionistic. We might get really controlling about what we eat, what we do, what we look like, what we say. We are going to have behaviors that maybe look a little obsessive even we become very focused on creating predictability, right?    

Robyn: So that's where some of those obsessive, we might use the words neurotic. That's where those behaviors are coming from. We're really focused on creating some predictability. And that makes a lot of sense, because there's safety and predictability. Remember, like when the brain can anticipate what's about to happen next, that's a cue of safety. I know I, 1,000,000% really, really, really relate to this. To this place of getting a little over controlling as I fall. Down the protection mode pathway, I can look back on my adult life and see a lot of progress in this in the last 10 years. You know most of you know me, especially if you've only discovered me in the last five or 10 years. Most of you know me as somebody who's super enthusiastic. I'm throwing literal and proverbial glitter around, right like I love rainbows and dress very colorfully. I mean, I practically present and move through the world with jazz hands. But that has not always been me. When I was much younger, like in my late 20s, early 30s, people used to mistake me for much older. People would think I was in my 40s. I was so much younger because primarily of how overly controlled. I was overly rigid. It was very particular about basically everything, and I was perfectionistic in kind of unusual ways. From a big picture perspective, not a lot of folks would describe me as perfectionistic. I'm a big fan of like done is better than perfect, and I am pretty happy to call a project done when it's mostly good as opposed to perfect. But the amount of work that I get done has always been very high, and that aspect of it can feel very overly controlled and perfectionistic in its own way. So it's almost like there's this perfectionistic quality in quantity as opposed to quality.    

Robyn: And again, I can look back on the last decade and see how my connection pathway has really grown, how I've found a lot more felt safety in my inner environment and in my relationships, right? And that's allowed me to spend more time in connection mode, and that has allowed me to, you know, shift out of being so overly controlled. But for me, when I fall down the protection mode pathway, that initially feels quite chaotic, I start to feel like my energy is kind of like pinging and bouncing all over the place. It really lacks a sense of coherence. And so I get really controlling in an attempt to regain that coherence, to rein that energy back in, you know, to find some order and predictability and not rigidity either, because that's, you know, chaotic in its own way, actually. But just to find kind of order and predictability right, to find some flexibility inside integration and regulation, think about like a 52 card pickup, for example. The cards get, like, tossed up everywhere, totally chaotic. They're just everywhere. And then we work to create order by picking them up and putting them back in a pile, right? So we move from chaos back into coherence and order. The control helps us find that coherence and that order. So when somebody is behaving in kind of a chronically controlling way, that can be a sign that they're in protection mode, they're trying to refine, rediscover, return to- safety and coherence. Now, on the other side of that, nobody likes to be controlled, or when somebody that we're with is controlling our own sense of agency gets threatened and we go into protection mode. Also very, very, very normal. Other people in protection mode invite us into protection mode. That's just how it works. When possible, when we have an opportunity to be the more regulated person, we can work to see that controlling behavior just as information.   

Robyn: Now, just like any other dysregulated behavior, I'm certainly not suggesting that we give controlling behavior just a free pass and when we just get used to being controlled, right? Like we just have to deal with it. No, no, no, no, you can absolutely set a boundary to being controlled and then be prepared to offer co-regulation through what is probably some inevitable dysregulation, right? Like, if you are reluctant to engage in the controlling behavior, right? You're likely going to find that other person then fall into dysregulation, because the controlling behavior is how they were attempting to stay out of being dysregulated so severely, right? So if we kind of prevent the controlling behavior from happening, because we don't allow ourselves to be controlled, we are increasing the likelihood that we're going to see dysregulation from that person, and then we're going to need to offer co-regulation, but that co-regulation is the very thing that will help their nervous system become less chaotic. So that's good. I don't want to get all toxic positivity here, right? And say, like, Oh, your child's controlling behavior is good. It gives you an opportunity. No, no, no, but it does give you an opportunity, and it's going to happen regardless. So if you can see it occasionally, not all the time, as an opportunity to offer co-regulation and offer safety in a different way, not offer safety by being controlled, but offer safety in a different way we can look at those experiences as opportunities.   

Robyn: Now, controlling behavior could also be a sign that that person is at the very edge of their window of tolerance and working very hard not to fall or crash into protection mode. Folks with a very, very narrow window of tolerance can absolutely seem very controlling and rigid. They have found then a way that prevents themselves from crashing outside their window of tolerance. And of course, this is usually unconsciously. Very few people have the conscious Owl brain thought of, oh, if I'm just really controlling, I'll be more likely to stay inside my window of tolerance. I don't have that Owl brain thought necessarily, but they have discovered that, that being controlling is a brilliant way to help themselves not crash outside their window of tolerance. And then, of course, that skill, right, that way of being controlling, feels really important to maintain, it's working. So this could look like rigid schedules, routines, putting in a lot of effort to make sure things go as planned. You all have heard me talk about my own family quite a bit, and my own husband quite a bit, and I know he would totally agree with what I'm about to say, which is that overall, he has a much narrower window of tolerance than I do. Some of this temperament. Some of this is our own unique nervous system and how, you know, we were created from the get go. Some of this is how that intersected with our own earliest experiences and and sometimes I do think I can confuse what feels like having a wide window of tolerance, actually, for a lot of people pleasing behavior, but even that part aside, overall, I have a wider window of tolerance than my husband, who has a very sensitive nervous system and a very sensitive stress response system.    

Robyn: So because he has a narrower window of tolerance than I do. He kind of needs things to just be in a certain way, right? He needs a certain amount of order. And, you know, expectation that things are going to go a certain way and without question sometimes this is very frustrating for me. It's very frustrating to be in relationship with and I have more patience for it at times than others. When I am my most regulated, when my window of tolerance is most wide and my Owl brain is strongest, I try to remember that me having a wider window of tolerance, and therefore having to be a little bit more flexible, it feels a lot better. It's really a privilege, right? I'm the one who's equipped to be flexible, and again, this is really quite the privilege, and it does get tricky to navigate all these nuances without question. Sometimes I fall into some pretty intense codependent traits, right? Like I have this goal of, how can I just make sure nobody around me gets dysregulated, because then I'm not okay, right? So I have to be very mindful of when my genuine flexibility and the fact that I just have a wider window of tolerance when that sort of merges into, well actually, now I'm being, you know, slightly codependent. I mean, sometimes I really am just flexible and don't really care that much about a lot of things. The things I care about, I care a lot about. I care strongly about. There's just so many things I just don't really care about. And so it's very easy if I'm in relationship with somebody who does care about those things, for me to just be like, Fine, do whatever, right?    

Robyn: And there's nothing wrong with my husband and that he has a narrower window of tolerance and more sensitivity in his nervous system. Again, he's probably more, or at least, differently neurodiverse than I am. He takes in and processes information differently than I do, definitely more intensely than I do. He had different early childhood experiences that had impacted the development of his nervous system differently than mine were. But ultimately what I'm saying is that some of this is nature and some of this is nurture, and it's okay that, because my window of tolerance is a little wider, I accommodate him a little bit more. My job is also to try to be true to myself and watch the line of accommodating and codependence and y'all. That's really, really hard. So what do we do to help our controlling kids? Because giving in to being controlled feels bad. If you yourself are in chronic protection mode, or you feel like you're walking on eggshells, you're starting to get resentful. And are not just starting to get resentful. You are aware you are like, just full on resentful. You're probably in chronic protection mode. This means that your dysregulated child, and we know they're dysregulated because they're being super controlling now, this means that while sure, maybe your chronically unedged child isn't getting set off into an explosion when you collude with their controlling behavior, maybe they're not, you know, falling into an attack Watchdog moment, but they're also not really receiving the necessary co-regulation that they need to truly grow those regulatory circuits so that they can experience more safety, more regulation, they can be more in connection mode and not need to be controlling in order to find some path towards safety, right?    

Robyn: Controlling people may have something going on internally that isn't necessarily a parenting related issue, but something we got to pay attention to. If you're in relationship with somebody who's chronically dysregulated and therefore chronically controlling. Consider, is there something happening internally, chronic inflammation, infection, a metabolic disorder, dysfunctional mitochondria? I mean, there are so many things that go far outside the scope of the Baffling Behavior Show, but we're learning so I mean, science is just exploding at the connection between our physiological health and what in our nervous system health, and ultimately, what comes out looking like behaviors, right? And we're learning more and more and more and more that things that seem just like very difficult behaviors. If we really dig under the surface, we are finding something physically going on, inflammation, infection, something like that.   

Robyn: I work with so many families who want so badly for their parenting to be, you know, the magic intervention. And of course you do, because that's the thing that you feel like you can control. But so often that relational piece and parenting is a relational piece. It's just that a piece. We gotta dig and figure out, like, what's the real problem? And there is growing evidence that many, many mental and behavior disorder symptoms, you know, are related to some of those things that I mentioned previously. So my point is, to the best that you can, if you're in relationship with somebody chronically dysregulated, chronically very controlling, be sure you're not only thinking about parenting. Investigate some of these other things you know. Don't lay the burden of your child being more regulated squarely in your own lap. Keep looking for the underlying problem. Extreme controlling behavior is a sign that something isn't right.    

Robyn: Let's look at an actual example. Let's say your child is demanding that you sit in a certain chair for dinner. You easily could just say yes and sit where they want you to sit. Because what does it really matter where you sit? And that might be the right choice. But I also encourage you to pause and ask yourself, is that decision to just say yes and do what they say? Is that co-regulation is. Again, maybe it is. Maybe you are very solidly in your Owl brain, and you say yes, yes, I'll sit wherever you want me to. Yes, I'll sit in that chair. Right? You're in your Owl brain. You see your child's behavior as dysregulation, and you're very thoughtfully saying yes and just doing what they say, because you know that that will give your child the connection safety and regulation that they need in that moment. But usually when I just say, Yeah, fine, whatever to somebody who's being controlling, especially if it doesn't really matter to me that much, like, I don't care where I sit at the dinner table, I usually am going to just default to like, yeah, sure, fine, whatever. And that default is not about my Owl brain, and that default is not about me thoughtfully offering co-regulation, safety and connection. That default response is usually just about me, trying to avoid the dysregulation that I think will happen if I don't just do what they say, so the first step in parenting a child who's trying to regulate through control is for you to be present and mindful if you, quote-unquote, give in. Don't give in to avoid dysregulation. Give in because you know they need some predictability in order to feel safe.    

Robyn: Truly, this very slight energetic shift does matter. I mean, yeah, the same behavior is happening. You're gonna sit where they told you to sit. But there's an energetic shift that really matters. And this energetic shift of being mindful, thoughtful means that now we're co-regulating, not just avoiding a meltdown. The next step then could be to slow the whole experience down by just narrating something like you feel better or safer when I sit next to you. That's it. You could just narrate that, or you could say something like, when you choose where I sit, you feel better, or even your Watchdog brain feels calmer when it feels like it's in charge, right? So you can narrate what's happening, and then you can say, Yes, I'll sit next to you. Okay? So see how we've slowed that down. We've grabbed hold of our own Owl brain. Now we're co-regulating, not just giving in. Eventually, then that could become, I will sit next to you. Could your Owl brain ask me, instead of your Watchdog brain telling me? Or even a step before that could be, I will sit next to you next time, can your Owl brain ask me instead of your Watchdog brain telling me? So you're not asking for a shift in the here and now, but you kind of prepping them for a shift you might prompt or be, you know, requiring in the future. So we're really scaffolding how much we are going to ask their Owl brain to participate and stick around. Does that make sense?    

Robyn: Now, if you have no other kids, and you really can't just sit next to your kid every single day, eventually, just start saying that you can say something like, every day I sit next to you. This is my seat and that's yours. Let's give our seats, name tags. Then when they demand sit next to me, the reply can be something like, every day I sit next to you, this is my seat, and that's yours, and you can kind of point, right? There's this reassurance of, yes, I'm going to sit next to you. But also it's not because you're demanding it. It's because this is how it always goes. So hopefully you can kind of see that difference there a little bit too. This helps to show your child that there is predictability in the world and there's trustworthiness in the world, even if they aren't the ones creating or demanding it. Now if you do have other kids, so you might not be able to sit in the same seat every single day because all your kids are asking you to sit next to them, you could eventually say something like, today, I'm going to sit next to your sister. We can sit next to each other next time.    

Robyn: Now, of course, I've not just offered you some magic words that will prevent a meltdown. I'm not suggesting there's a way to prevent a meltdown. Okay, so if you set a boundary and you say, I'm gonna sit next to your sister today, I can sit next to you tomorrow. Please don't expect them to not be upset, even if you've scaffolded them for ages. When you do finally reach the point where you set that boundary and stick to it there, you can't have the expectation that they're not going to be upset about it. They're going to be upset it. In that upsetness, that dysregulation isn't because the scaffolding isn't working, it's that there is now a new opportunity for co-regulation. So it's important to implement this stage when you feel ready to offer this level of co-regulation, right? I mean, without question, there are days where I just give in and I don't set boundaries, because I just don't have it in me to do all the co-regulation that needs to be done. Right? True co-regulation does not mean giving in to what they're upset about. So if you set a boundary, I'll sit next to you tomorrow. And there's dysregulation the way you co-regulate that isn't it? By saying, okay, okay, okay, I'll sit next to you, right? Co-regulation can look like this is so hard you're so upset, it feels so unfair that I won't sit next to you. Or your Watchdog brain feels like I need to sit next to you, but my Owl brain knows that your Owl brain is strong, your Watchdog brain can be okay, even if I sit next to your sister.    

Robyn: All right, now y'all, we're starting to layer in more concepts here, right? Because this is tricky. When is it the right move to hold the boundary versus when is it the right move to look at our kids stress response and think to ourselves, uh oh, I think I'm asking their stress response system to navigate a stressor that's beyond their capacity, and therefore I need to reduce that stress basically, that was a lot of words to say. How do you decide when it's hard versus too hard, right? What's hard versus too hard in your family? What's hard versus too hard for your kid? And if you haven't heard me use the language, hard or too hard, I think I started saying that after I did my interview with Amanda Diekman on Low Demand Parenting, and that's last summer. I'll make sure I get that into the show notes for you, but you and your family and your child like hard versus too hard. That's unique for y'all, and it matters where it is for you. So co-regulation through a meltdown, right? Like offering your kid co-regulation through a meltdown, that's hard for you, right? And so that matters, right? And you don't want to set yourself up to having to offer co-regulation if you just don't have capacity for it, right? Like if you don't have a strong enough Owl brain in that moment that's valid, then the choice might be, I am not going to stick to this boundary. I can't offer the level of co-regulation that my child needs. But still, y'all making the choice not to hold the boundary. Make it from your Owl brain. Do it with the level of thoughtfulness that I just kind of worked all the way through. Be honest and compassionate with yourself. I do not have it in me to hold this boundary today, so I'm just going to lower the bar, release the boundary, right? That isn't giving in, that's making a conscious Owl brain choice.   

Robyn: Don't reflexively just say, Okay, fine, I'll sit next to you, because you know that's gonna avoid a meltdown. Make the Owl brain choice to sit next to them, because you know you just don't have it in you to co-regulate a meltdown. I know where we sit by each other at the dinner table is just one example. It's a pretty low stakes example, but I'm hoping that the majority of you listening can relate to it in some way, if not specifically, then you can kind of extrapolate from it and use the example that I just gave and apply it to other common situations in your life or in your family's life. If you've been listening to this podcast long enough, or you've read the book, you're definitely noticing there's a lot of patterns here, right? We are seeing behaviors as behaviors of protection and as behaviors that are trying to help them return to safety. These behaviors of protection are emerging because of a sensitized stress response system. And to strengthen the stress response system, we need to decrease the stress so that the stress becomes what Dr. Perry would say, is predictable, reliable, moderate and controllable, and we don't want the stress to be unpredictable, extreme or prolonged. That's Dr. Perry's language. I mean, what we're really talking about, again, is hard versus too hard, right?    

Robyn: When things are hard, we can increase co-regulation, right? And when we increase co-regulation, we are strengthening the stress response system. What that means is eventually we'll be able to decrease active co-regulation, because the regulation will have been internalized. The stress response system will be strengthened, right? We'll be able to decrease active co regulation and increase the stressor. We'll be able to have higher expectations. I'm talking a lot about some other big topics, scaffolding the stress response system. I have episodes about those topics. I'll put the links in the show notes. You can always head over to my website, RobynGobbel.com/podcast, there's a search bar, and you can put what you're looking for in that search bar, and it will tell you the number of the episode that relates to that topic, and then you can take that number, the episode number, and come back to your podcast app and scroll until you find that number. Unfortunately, podcast apps just aren't searchable. One day, the technology will get to the point where they are. I'm hopefulif you are responsible for podcasts at Apple podcasts or at Spotify, if you could get on making podcasts more searchable, I'd really, really, really appreciate that. But until then, you'll have to head to my website and use the search bar there take the number of the episode that you discover and then come back to your podcast app and scroll until you find that episode, the scaffolding episode is episode 82 and the stress response system episode is episode 94.    

Robyn: All right, y'all, that's it for our deep dive into controlling behavior in ourselves and in our kids, and what are some steps we can take to create enough safety that we start to decrease some of that controlling behavior, because nobody likes to be controlled, and being controlled flips us into protection mode. Super grateful to have you back with me on the podcast as a reminder, if you are new to the baffling behavior show and you're overwhelmed, there's so many episodes. Where do you start? You can go to robyngobbel.com/start here, and you can sign up for a specially curated 10 episode podcast. I took 10 episodes from the Baffling Behavior Show. I put them in order. And I did so in an attempt to answer the question, where do I start? Well, now you can just go to this special podcast, listen to episodes one through 10 in that order. That's where you start. Then when you're done with those, you can come back here to the Baffling Behavior Show. You can scroll around. You can look through it, you can use the search bar, whatever works for you to meet the needs of your family. If you need help implementing some of these ideas into your family, or you could use some extra, increased connection and co-regulation yourself. We would love to have you join us over in The Club. The Club is a virtual membership community of education, connection, co-regulation for parents of kids with vulnerable nervous systems, and we open periodically for new members. So when you're listening to this episode, you can just go check it out. RobynGobbel.com/theclub, and if we're open, you can come join us. And if we're not open, you can get your name on a waiting list, and we'll let you know when it is open. Alrighty, y'all, I will see you back here next week on the Baffling Behavior Show, bye, bye!