20 Non-Therapy Therapeutic Interventions {EP 219}

Robyn: Last week's episode was all about how to assess if a therapist views behaviors through the lens of the nervous system, because I know most of you really want to kind of figure that information out before you get started with an intensive therapeutic relationship with a potential therapist. So I offered a bunch of questions that you could ask, as well as trainings a therapist might have that indicate they're trained in attachment, trauma regulation, connection, felt safety, the nervous system, interpersonal neurobiology, things like that. Also gave you two immediately downloadable handouts, meaning you don't just sign up for them. You just have to go to my website and click so that you can have all the things that I talked about in that episode really just right at your fingertips, so you didn't have to take notes in the episode, and you really could, just like, take those handouts with you when you go meet with a new potential therapist. So if you haven't listened, definitely scroll back to that episode when this episode is over. This isn't technically a series of episodes, but do you think these two episodes go together? Last week's episode all about you know how to know if a therapist is the right fit for your family. And then this week, we're going to talk about what kinds of experiences you could offer your child who refuses to participate in therapy.    

Robyn: I know so many of you have kids who refuse to go to therapy, or you've been to therapy and it hasn't been helpful, and that can be for a whole wide variety of reasons, but regardless of the reason, this certainly leaves parents, you know, feeling hopeless and feeling like, what are we going to do if my kid refuses to therapy, and clearly needs some sort of therapeutic intervention. Now, obviously, y'all, I'm a big, big, big fan of therapy. I was a practicing therapist for 15 years. I've been in my own therapy for, I don't know, my entire adult life, like probably over 20 years, and I start and stop that at different times, but I have found my own therapy to be wildly life changing. I mean, there are times when I feel like my therapist has saved my life and I mean that, through the lens of has helped me be able to participate in life in a way that is exceptionally meaningful. So to be clear, big fan of therapy, but I also really believe that there's a lot of things that can be therapeutic. There's a lot of ways to bring moments of healing to the nervous systems that aren't traditional therapy, and I think it's important we talk about them. There's a lot of reasons that therapy is not accessible to folks. Maybe you don't have a specialized therapist in your area. Maybe you do, but they are outside your ability to afford them. Maybe their hours don't work for your family. I mean, there's, like, so many reasons why traditional therapy might not be accessible to so many families, even if their kid was willing to go.    

Robyn: And I also actually really do believe that for many, many folks, if we can find ways to infuse what Dr Perry calls or refers to. As like moments of healing throughout a child and a family's life, that in so many ways, that actually can be more impactful than an hour a week of therapy. I think if they go together, that can be great too. But if therapy is not an option for you, or it just feels like it's time to take a break from therapy, or this whole like one hour a week thing is just really not meeting your family's needs. There are so many other options of things that can be therapeutic and healing of the nervous system. Now I have two, at this point, pretty old podcast episodes that I want to refer you to. Episode 49 is called how the brain stem heals. Episode 53 talks about moments of healing for both you and your child. So those might be episodes to check out after this episode is over. To give you a bigger understanding of how the types of things I'm going to talk about in this episod absolutely could be therapeutic, non-therapy interventions.    

Robyn: So much of what's inspired this episode is Dr. Bruce Perry's work. He really has been the trauma expert that I've learned the most from with regards to the lowest parts of the brain, really supporting organization of the brain stem, and supporting safety and connection through regulation and through the nervous system, and looking at how we can do that with different kinds of experiences and just an hour a week of therapy, and not just looking at how we can do that, but in many ways, looking at how that could be more important, these moments throughout the week where we're really leaning into and having moments of healing as again, as opposed to this, like one hour a week on Mondays, from three to 4pm or or whatever that is. So if you're really curious and you want to go to some of the original research, definitely check out Dr. Bruce Perry's work. He's the theorist behind the neurosequential model of therapeutics. His two books are the boy who was raised as a dog and what happened to you that he co authored with Oprah Winfrey.    

Robyn: So I took my like off the cuff, ideas about nontherapy, therapeutic supports, and I typed them all into chat GPT, and it gave me back an organized list that I then turned into a PDF that you could download over on my website. So just like last episodes, you don't have to take any notes everything I'm going to talk about today, I put into a simple kind of bulleted handout that you can easily go back and reference. You can just head to my website, click it'll download immediately. Don't sign up for it or anything like that. Now, this list that I'm gonna offer you is not in any kind of order, so one of the things on this list isn't better than the other, right? What makes an experience better? Well, what makes an experience better is, will your child participate in it? Do they like it? Do they fully consent to it? Does it offer moments, and truly, literally just moments where your child has some connection to their Owl brain? That's the kind of things that would make one of these experiences better than the other. All of our bodies and our sensory preferences in our minds, you have different preferences. Have different experiences that we gravitate toward, that regulate us, that satisfy us, that feel good in our nervous system. And actually part of discovering that, what do I like? What do I not like? What leaves me feeling more regulated? What leaves me feeling less regulated? Actually, that very experience is exceptionally healing to the nervous system.    

Robyn: So it's okay to try something and then notice like nope. Don't like this. This doesn't bring regulation. It's not a mistake. You didn't do anything wrong, truly, just the process of experimenting, noticing and then having the awareness of like nope, not that one that, in and of itself, is a moment of healing. So with all of that in mind, I am going to offer you 20 non-therapy, therapeutic-interventions that can bring moments of healing. Of course, this is not an inclusive list. I literally just sat down, kind of off the cuff, came up with 20, and then asked chatgpt to help me organize them. So again, this. These are, in no particular order, the first thing on the list probably because it was the first thing I thought of, the first thing that I signed into chat GBT is equine Equine Assisted Therapy. Now I have an entire podcast all about Equine Assisted Therapy. It's a couple years old. We should revisit that. I shouldn't make a new episode about Equine Assisted Therapy. There's so many powerful things about Equine Assisted Therapy. There's different approaches to Equine Assisted Therapy, and I'm not going to go into, you know, the different approaches and the value of those different approaches. It's talked about a little in the Equine Assisted Therapy episode I did Megan, many, many years ago. But you know, equine therapy, in connecting with horses, offers some rhythmic movement. There is ways that a experience equine therapy is really leaning in to the co-regulated relational experience that's happening between an individual and the horse, and there's just so much goodness that can happen in Equine Assisted Therapy, even if the client never gets on a horse.   

Robyn: It's not really even about riding it though. Certainly, there are aspects of that that can also be exceptionally therapeutic and healing and regulating and organizing to the nervous system. So if Equine Assisted Therapy is something that you have access to, highly, highly, highly recommend checking it out. When I was a practicing therapist, I often had kids doing both. They were coming to see me once a week and also doing Equine Assisted Therapy, you know, maybe not once a week, maybe twice a month. It really just depended the frequency. The second thing on this list is drumming circles. So some sort of rhythmic, maybe music group experience, something that offers that repetitive, rhythmic experience that is so supportive in organizing the brain stem. There can be so much goodness that comes out of creating rhythm. Being a part of the creation of rhythm between multiple folks. There's a need for attunement. There's a need to be able to shift and change and to experience like exist inside the resonance and all kind of come together to co-create something that's very powerful, and this can be quite regulating and without question, a moment of healing in the nervous system. So sometimes you could find drumming circles in your community. But also, I think music making in general, and really even music listening, can offer up those experiences of rhythmic input that can be so beneficial to organizing the brainstem and the nervous system.   

Robyn: Kind of similarly, dance and movement classes, I mean, oftentimes dance and movement classes have an element of being with music, and so that's why I say kind of similarly. But dance and movement classes really can offer opportunities for the body to experience some regulation and some organization. I don't think dance or movement classes need to be overtly structured where, like, the student is learning something from the teacher. So certainly that could be an option, but it's not a requirement. So if you have a child who is really interested not in dancing the way somebody else tells them to, or, like, taking a traditional class, but just experiencing dance and movement and, you know, being with other people also, you know, doing dance and movement, you can look for those kinds of experiences in your community. Some communities might have both, like, really structured dance and movement classes, or just opportunities to safely bring folks together to have, you know dance and movement expressions themselves.    

Robyn: If y'all have been around for a while, you know that I enjoy taking aerial silks classes, which is often a part of what we'd call like the circus arts. And to be clear, I am not good at aerial silks, and I find it wildly healing, the way that there's so much like body based awareness, being with the body, being amazed at what the body can do, doing this with other folks. So much healing that can come out of these body dance, movement based experiences. Martial arts. I think martial arts was one of the kind of top extracurriculars I used to recommend to families when I was actively working with therapy, you know, with families in therapy, a great martial arts studio. And, of course, you have to vet all of the things that I'm talking about today, if we still have to, like, vet the particular provider, and see what their approach is. And especially, you know, see their approach to kids who maybe aren't going to be, you know, really easy to teach. Maybe bring in a little bit of dysregulation to the experience, right? But there's a lot about martial arts that can be really, really helpful. The relationship with very compassionate but very structured and boundaried instructor can be so helpful. But there's also so much sensory input, proprioception, vestibular it's so organizing, and it can really bring in a sense of power and connection to one's own body. Now I don't mean power in, like a power over way where it's like teaching kids how, you know, this is not self-defense, a good martial arts experience isn't encouraging violence. A good martial arts experience is helping kids really come into contact with their own body and their own power, and when people are in contact truly with their own authentic power, they do not use it in a power over violent kind of way.   

Robyn: So there's a lot of, you know, body based, body awareness benefits that can come from a good martial arts experience, impulse control, regulation, all sorts of goodness, yoga and again, like kind of I can bring my own experience into this, as I don't go to yoga, but I really enjoy these aerial classes that bring in a lot of similar kinds of experiences. There's a way that, you know, the body really needs to notice and pay attention to and strengthen introception, the ability to notice sensations inside our body, right? This is a pretty important component of these types of experiences, and interoception is key in the development of regulation. So body body-based experiences develop interoception. Interoception leads to regulation eventually. So body-based experiences are so powerful promotes, you know, being mindfully present with our body, which 100% grows, the Owl brain. it is an Owl brain characteristic is being present with our own bodies.    

Robyn: Improv and theater actually, is another experience that I'll offer up to parents as a possibility. When I lived in Austin, we had an organization that had an improv program for kids with special needs, neurodevelopmental needs. Most of the kids were identified as autistic. ADHD. A lot of my kids that I worked with who had histories of trauma did great over in this one particular improv group. Again, it was an improv group, you know, really designed for kids with some special needs. So I think that can be helpful, or at least connecting with the leaders to see how they would incorporate a child with some special needs. But holy moly, the benefits of improv for highly dysregulated kids, kids that struggle with like the serve and return of relationship, struggle really being present in relationship. Oh man, I have seen improv be really, really powerful, but even not just improv, but theater experiences, the sense of community, the sense of creativity, the sense of we're working together to create something being, you know, in this really social environment, but that tends to have wider tolerance for kids with different ways of expressing their social way of being in the world. So theater experiences, not just improv, can be just really beautiful moments of healing for kids with vulnerable nervous systems, kids who need some support with their nervous system or with their brain stem. We kind of already said this, but group music or singing experiences singing and utilizing voice and breath and. Our vocal cords and creative expression is a beautiful way to kind of strengthen and access that owl brain or that ventral vagus. And so if you have a child who is interested in or is willing to participate in music-making experiences that is so, so so powerful. My husband's a musician. You know, I watched the power of making music with friends on a daily basis, right? He's been a youth and young adults music instructor the entire time that I've known him. I also have a minor in music performance, believe it or not, I minored in performing on the French horn. Weird, huh?   

Robyn: But making music with other people is so powerful, and so look for ways that you could expose your child to music making experiences or being present while others are making music. Maybe look for mentorship experiences in your community, things like, for example, Big Brothers and Big Sisters. It could be formal or informal-mentorship kinds of experiences you know, ways to give your child, one on one, attuned relationship with an adult who's not you, who genuinely likes being with your child. These can be so so, so powerful for your child, for your family, great mentorship experiences I have watched just be so impactful for struggling kids or dysregulated kids. I also have seen families that are really engaged in volunteer work. I have seen that be powerful for kids with vulnerable nervous system, or just families that really value like acts of service, even if it's not formal volunteer work. I have, like, true, genuine acts of service. So, you know, we can't do these things with the intentionality of showing our kids how to be XYZ, but just really, truly, like being inside a family that really values and prioritizes acts of service, engages in volunteer work. Really gets joy out of helping other folks or just being kind.    

Robyn: You know, again, these like moments of of kindness, moments of generosity for two other folks, I have seen that be very powerful for highly dysregulated kids, or, you know, even kids that you know could use some support in the development of empathy seeing their impact on other people, but especially seeing that they have a positive impact on other people. A lot of these kids know that they have an impact on other people, but it's not always a positive one. So families that really embody a spirit of like generosity, volunteer work I've seen make you know, pretty profound impact on on kids, outdoor kinds of things, zip lining, being in nature parks, wildlife experiences, parks and nature camps, things like that, being in nature, being with the here and now, having moments of like aw and joy and inspiration, you know, noticing and being mindful of things outside your own body or your own experience. Very, very powerful, oftentimes, being in nature, hiking, you know, I said, like, zip lining, things like that. Those are challenging experiences. Kayaking, you know, those are things that are strengthening a child's sense of of mastery, of like, oh, my body is capable and can do some pretty cool things. And then, of many, many, many outside experiences. I mean, even like camping, hiking, things like that engage, like the proprioception, vestibular like the really provide a lot of sensory oomph, and that can be really organizing to the brain stem and to the nervous system.    

Robyn: Trampolines, bouncing. Oh, I think of a kid I know who is a master at, like trampolining, sports, parkour kind of stuff. But there are trampoline classes similar to gymnastics classes, right? But always on the trampoline, and I have seen those experiences also be very supportive of a nervous system, regulation. Swimming, getting in the water, I think organized swimming experiences like swim team, where you're learning strokes, and there's a lot of structure to it. There's really that very clear, rhythmic, repetitive aspect to it can be really helpful. Water is providing a lot of sensory experience, obviously, to the whole body. When you're immersed in it can be very organizing. But I don't think it has to be organized swimming experiences again, I can I think it can be helpful. And I've watched kids really thrive, and like swimming as a sport, laps, strokes, things like that, even just swimming, being in the body, or being in the water, having playful experiences inside the water. You know, I lived in Texas for 15 years, and it was like swimming season, not completely year round, but almost and swimming and getting in the water. Lot of families had pools or had access to one. We were we had so many community pools that most people I knew inside Austin City Limits had access to a pool in their neighborhood, or, again, like a community based pool. And so it's something I would recommend a ton. I mean, I can remember families where I would suggest, like, could you squeeze a extra half hour out of your morning routine and go to the pool before your kid goes to class or before they go to summer camp? Because it can really set the body up for regulation for the rest the rest of the day.    

Robyn: Gymnastics, like martial arts, provides a lot of sensory input to the body. Proprioception, vestibular really can help the body be feel organized. There's, of course, lots of rhythmic, repetitive, relational somatosensory experiences. Gymnastics, swimming, martial arts and gymnastics were probably kind of like the three extracurriculars I would often recommend to families extracurriculars, editors, very specifically, body-based, kind of like a sport. Those were usually my three favorites, if could be accessed, you know, with a attuned positive coach, art, art making, this could be formal art classes, but it could also just be opportunities for art making, crafting, getting your hands into something, Clay, paint. I mean, there's so many options. Generally speaking, I'd say we want to keep the focus on the process as opposed to the outcome. But even in an art class where there is, like an outcome or something, you're deliberately creating the process is still a huge part of the experience that is very, very, very valuable. I mean, we've got extremely sensory, rich experience. It often tends to be done when there's other people around, but is an individual experience. So there's this aspect of being with others in a regulated way, without socially engaging with others, and that also can be a healing experience for the nervous system.    

Robyn: Pet and animal care. Now, I'm not suggesting that you run out and get a pet, and without question, I've known kids who aren't safe with their pets or with their family animals or with other animals 100% but I have also seen kids have powerful experiences by having a pet or a trained service animal that's for them, but it doesn't even have to be official like that pets pet care or volunteering at shelters, going to the shelter to hold the kitties or take care of the puppies. I have watched many, many, many families have such lovely, successful experiences, bringing their children into those kinds of opportunities, and now we've also, we're also bringing in, like a volunteer experience. So I think there's a lot of different ways you could safely bring animal experiences to your child, supervise them, all that kind of stuff without question. This isn't for every child. We absolutely have to prioritize the safety of the animal and your child. But if this is something your child is drawn toward or does well with, you know, I'd really encourage it and look for opportunities to really lean in to those experiences.    

Robyn: Board sports like skateboarding, you know, skiing, surfing, snowboarding. Now, these are unique opportunities, certainly not everybody has access to them, but because I wanted to offer out lots of creative ideas. You know, I had a colleague who really loved incorporating board sports into their work with families and, you know, skate parks. I live in a place that has very minimal opportunities for skiing, minimal, not the right word. I live in a place where you can go skiing, but there's certainly not the mountains, and so it tends to be a little less intimidating. It tends to be a little less expensive, but the vestibular and proprioceptive experiences of board sports I have watched really organize and support the nervous system of dysregulated kids. I mean, sometimes kids where you're like, no way can I put this child on a snowboard or on a skateboard, and then you you do, and you're like, oh my gosh, this child's a natural, and it just like fills their regulation cups. So be creative. Be creative. Think outside the box, and if you have access to some of these things, you have a skate park down the you know, in your neighborhood, or you live, like me, in a place where you can go skiing, but it's not like veil skiing, so it's affordable and accessible. You could go for just an hour or two, and it's not a huge waste of money, you know. Think about it. Think about if that's something that that your child might be interested in.    

Robyn: Cooking, baking, that kind of creating food, creating cooking and baking is so hands on, so experiential, very sensory-based. And then we're also bringing in, you know, the nurturing aspect of creating food. We're also bringing in structure, right? Generally speaking, to be successful at cooking and baking, you have to kind of be paying attention to what you're doing and maybe follow the rules, at least. At least slightly. You know, cooking maybe less so than baking. There's success, there's an outcome, there's this like thing you made, and there's also the capacity to practice when things don't go the way that they're supposed to, because even the best cook and the best baker is constantly making mistakes. I mean, that's why they're great cooks and bakers, right? Because they're doing so much experimenting so getting your kid involved with food and cooking and baking. In fact, I had Chef Kibby on the show. I'll put Chef Kibby episode down in the show notes, and Chef Kibby's whole, whole, whole way that he supports families is through cooking and baking and being in the kitchen and even things like knife safety and the relational aspects of it. And, yeah, I thought Chef Kibby and his approach to supporting families was pretty darn cool.    

Robyn: Relational play groups. So, you know, maybe a play group that isn't specifically for music or specifically for art, but just to kind of bring kids together. You know, adults should be involved to support potentially dysregulated kids coming together. But y'all, I actually find relational play in dysregulated kids to be more successful if we mix up the ages. And so if you can find opportunities for your kids to play with much younger kids, I have found that to be really helpful in healing for kids they don't have to work so hard to figure out complex social dynamics. And oftentimes younger kids are a little more on the same wavelength as our kids with regards to social dynamics. Gives your kids a really safe, non-threatening way to practice. And oftentimes kids, when they're playing with younger kids, can really sort of rise to the occasion of, like being themselves in this, like leadership mentorship role, and that can be very empowering for kids. But I also find the opposite to be helpful, like sometimes if you can find a way for your kid to spend time with older kids, safe, older kids who you trust, and all that kind of good stuff, but I have seen it be very powerful for vulnerable kids, dysregulated kids, to really kind of be taken into groups of older kids, again, because the age difference is is big enough that there's really no expectation that the child has the same kind of social skills that the older kids do. That really relieves a lot of the social pressure and expectation, and that can offer more regulation. It's just less stressful and with the right group of older kids. I've just seen that be so so so powerful.    

Robyn: I of course, believe very much so in the power of supporting parents doing parent coaching. So if your kid won't engage in anything, you know, that's an opportunity for you to engage in things. Now I actually think every single thing that's been on this list would be a wonderful thing for a struggling, dysregulated, grown up or parent to also participate in. So if you're getting here, we are getting close to the end of the episode, and you're like, my kid would never do any of these things. Well, maybe that's a invitation for you to, you know, hear if there was something on this list that you thought could bring some regulation to your nervous system, because certainly you need it as as well, right? But aside from that, engaging in parent support, parent coaching, you know, finding somebody who can really be with you in the complex dynamics of your family and provide some supportive ideas, or maybe even just really be with you in the muck of like, Yeah, this is so hard, right? You may be in a place where you could use exactly what you want to offer your kids, which is experience of connection, co-regulation and safety, and maybe you, for multiple reasons, don't have access to therapy, or therapy is not the path that you want to take, but something that's more specific on parenting and supporting you in your parent journey could be a better option for you. And again, that's still supporting your regulation, your connection, your felt safety, and that is, in turn, going to be something that you can offer to your kids.    

Robyn: And then the last thing on my list, and y'all this is not an inclusive list by any stretch of the imagination. But the last thing on my list is just sensory-based play. We oftentimes we think of sensory play for much younger kids, sand, water, paint, playing in the dirt, playing with mud, rice, you know, like all these ways that our hands and our fingers are in sensory place, shaving cream, finger paint, all that kind of good stuff. Look for ways to offer those opportunities to even older kids. These are so such important experiences that help kids become more connected to their body in a safe way and experience sensation in their body that is pleasurable or it's not pleasurable. And then they have the power to say, I don't like this also very, very, very healing. But then sensory isn't all only just like, hand and touch-based experiences, right? Sensory plays, body-based play. You know, having your kids have access to swings, trampolines, like we said, being able to climb things. I know a lot of families with highly dysregulated kids who have like, kind of turned areas of their house into almost like a jungle gym and have brought in intentionally, like sensory-based equipment to help kids have body-based, positive, body-based experiences.    

Robyn: So obviously, y'all, not an inclusive list, I'll bet you, I could come up with 100 things you know, that could be rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences for your child or for you, right? That allows for or invites in what we would call those moments of healing. So if your child refuses to participate in therapy, or maybe they participate in therapy joyfully, and they love it, and they're getting a lot out of it, but you want to maybe offer some other things into the rest of their life. I hope that this list gives you some ideas, or spoke spark some creativity for you to imagine some things that are available in your community that I wouldn't even know about, right? But things that are available in your community based on where you live that you think, Oh, I think my child would enjoy that remember, rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory, things that they consent to, okay, we can't force people to have experiences and think that they're going to be healing. They will not be, you know, bring some joy, brings regulation, right? Brings connection to their bodies and to themselves, maybe not instantly, but if it doesn't bring it instantly, it's at least something that they're willing to kind of keep engaging. With because, again, consent, consent is important. So keep those things in mind and then just notice, like what's happening and your regular life that you could lean into, you could reframe as therapeutic, you could bring more of to your child.    

Robyn: So again, I asked chatgpt to put this list into an organized thing that I can make a handout out of, because I wanted you to just listen and not take notes. So over on my website, and the link is in the show notes, you can head over to my website and just instantly download the list. You don't have to sign up for anything, nothing like that. Just click download. While you're over on my website, pause for a second. Check it out, especially if you're new, if you and I are just meeting, explore my website about lots of free resources over on my website, my podcast page has a search bar on it, so you can, you know, type words into the search bar and see if I have a podcast episode that relates to the thing that you're looking for. You can see if I'm offering any trainings that are coming up near you that you could attend. I worked really hard to make my website be as be a resource for you. You can also find ways to come and participate in my professional training programs, to come and participate in the club if you're a parent, and to find a place to buyRaising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, my book that came out a year and a half ago has been a best seller, continues to really, impact families and professionals in a way that, frankly, is just astounding to me.   

Robyn: So poke around my website, see what else is there that could be helpful or supportive. Also, know y'all that I've just started our website redesign process so that all the goodness that's on my website will all still be there, but we're going to make sure that it is easier to navigate, easier to access, faster to navigate, all that kind of good stuff. So that's probably going to be a couple months, but just know that that's coming down the pipe. That is my current kind of big project, to be able to support you better. So as always, thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing, to support yourself, to support kids with vulnerability in their nervous systems, is so important. It matters. It matters the work you're doing matters. And I see it, and I see you. I'll be back with you again next week. Y'all, bye, bye!