Rewriting the Nervous System Story {EP 236}

Robyn: That's not a very good podcast, a six hour podcast, not exactly what we're all looking for. So instead, I have taken moments of that podcast, and I looked for those moments where I would have loved to stop and go down a rabbit trail and spend an hour talking about that specific part of the podcast. So I took those pieces, and I've made individual episodes about those different topics. And so two weeks ago, I did an episode about polyvagal theory as a theory of hope, about a theory that helps us understand the hope of dysregulation and the opportunity for repair. Deb talked a little bit about that in the interview that I did with her, and I really wanted to explore that further for parents like y'all, parents of kids with pretty out of control and dangerous behaviors, because I think it's a big stretch to think about the hope of dysregulation, or about how dysregulation is not really the problem, like Deb said, but it's dysregulation without repair that's a problem. I just think that's a really big leap for a parent to make when you're parenting kids with some pretty out of control, even dangerous behavior. So two weeks ago, we explored that idea even further. Last week, we looked at polyvagal theory and what that means for those of us who are parenting in chronic protection mode, and if so much of what our child needs is to be able to find a neuro seem and experience cues of safety, but we know that we are in chronic protection mode, and therefore we're offering off like, coming off of our nervous system is cues of danger. 

Robyn: How do we reconcile those two truths and still feel the hope of polyvagal theory? So that's what we talked about in last week's episode. Today, today we're going to talk about this piece that Deb referenced about how can we use the science of the nervous system to help our child, or our children, rewrite the story of themselves? And I just thought that was such an exquisite way to look at the hope of polyvagal theory, and what polyvagal theory is offering us in our parenting journey is I just loved the idea of rewriting the story of the nervous system. So we're going to explore that idea further today. I'm going to start with a quote from Deb from the original episode, Episode 233, So just a few episodes back, if you haven't caught that episode with Deb, I definitely encourage you, when you're done with this episode, to scroll back listen to episode 233 and then perhaps 234 and last week's 235 as well. This is a quote that I pulled from that episode. It's a little bit paraphrased, just to make it more concise, but essentially, Deb offered us this thought here. She said, "The nervous system is longing to be regulated. It simply just doesn't know how to get there yet. I think the nervous system inherently knows the way. If we can open up that pathway, instead of looking at someone's behavior and saying what we all say something like, Oh, I wish they would just stop that, or they're annoying me, or they're just doing this to drive me crazy. Instead of that, we can open up the pathway to regulation by rewriting the story and saying, Oh, they're dysregulated. When someone's dysregulated, they are biologically unable to connect to calm down. It's not that they don't want to it's that they are unable. So I need to rewrite that story. I might not know why they're feeling unsafe, but I know that they are. I can focus on the biological story, the story of their biology, their neuroception of danger, instead of on their behavior. Then I can look at them with kindness, compassion, love and care, and that tells a different story. Then we can start to consider if there are ways to increase cues of safety, maybe in the environment, maybe there are things I can change." Y'all, there is just so much goodness here in that idea from Deb and again, specifically, I really have connected with the way she phrased this rewrite the story. 

Robyn: I think I'm so drawn to thinking about stories and thinking about language and narration, and have always been drawn to using stories and narration in my therapeutic work, in my own personal life, and so to just think about this idea of rewriting the story. So Deb has this phrase she often says. She says that the story follows state, and that phrase helps us to understand how, from a polyvagal theory perspective, thoughts and beliefs come after sensation, the story about what's happening and the way we use language to make sense of what's happening that comes after our experiences of sensation and our experience in the nervous system, and our nervous system state, from a biological perspective, sensation and the state of the nervous system happens first, then we write a story about it, then we make meaning about it. And so so often we want to focus on changing our thoughts about something, or our meaning that we've made about something, or we want our kids to change their thoughts about something. For example, when our kids accuse us of criticizing them, we want to say I wasn't criticizing you. We want to. We want to respond to their story that they've written by focusing on the story and suggesting a way to change the story. Right? We want to say something like, of course, I love both you and your sister the same. Right? We want the thoughts and the beliefs to be what's important. We want the thoughts and the beliefs to be what we're focusing on. But what we know about the nervous system is that we write the story based on our state. Okay? So our kids are accusing us of criticizing them or accusing us of loving their sister more than we love them, not because they came up with that thought, and then their nervous system shifted in response to that thought. The opposite, generally speaking, the opposite happens that this the state happens first, and then we write a story about that state, even if the story's wrong. It's really quite curious that the part of our brain that really wants to make sense of something and write a story about something is actually more interested in writing a story period, more interested in whether the story is right. That's kind of secondary. Is this story accurate? Is like an afterthought? 

Robyn: It just wants to write a story. And we can find the science of that in a lot of Dan Siegel's work. And especially if you're familiar with Dan Siegel's work, you can go to look at what he talks about, horizontal or bilateral, bilateral integration, or narrative integration. Those are different parts of integration, but his work and his research suggests that the the story is the focus, whether it's right or not, is again, the kind of secondary so we're gonna write a story about the state, and not always have a lot of curiosity about, oh, is that the right story? The same thing is true about us. Okay, we're kind of talking about this with our kids, but the same thing is true about us. So if I'm in protection mode and somebody gives me some feedback or offers a suggestion or tells me about something that they want, I am very vulnerable to writing that story as they're criticizing me. My state in being in protection mode impacts how I've heard what they said, which, objectively speaking, let's just say wasn't critical, right? People can offer feedback, or they can say they want something different and it not be critical. But my state impacts how I heard what they said, Right? My state impacts the way that I heard it, and I write a story about it, and my story in that moment is you're being critical. You don't like me. Everything I do is wrong, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of good stuff. If we remember that story follows state, we can take our children's thoughts, especially our children thoughts, our children's thoughts, about us less personally. We can get less frustrated that all we're trying to do is offer some feedback, and we can't even do that, because all they do is just feel criticized. 

Robyn: But instead of that, we can remember that, of course, they feel criticized that protection mode leaves them writing that story protection mode and them experiencing the world in protection mode impacts the way they write a story about what they're experiencing. And if we remember that, we might be able to open up and feel some compassion. It is so painful to live in a nervous system that's in chronic protection mode, and in a nervous system that's interpreting everything that someone else says, It's criticism. So if we can stay in connection mode, we actually give them the opportunity to rewrite their story, if we can remember how exhausted they must be, how tragic it is for them to live inside a nervous system that is always interpreting other people's behaviors as critical of them. Then we stay in connection mode. We stay compassionate. Then our kids can neuroceve Safety off of this, and this is a moment where they have the opportunity to rewrite their own story, right? They have a moment where they could rewrite a story around, oh, wait, maybe that wasn't critical. But also, y'all, and actually, I think this piece that I'm about to say is even more exciting. This helps us rewrite our own story when we fall into the tornado of our children's protection mode, the story we often end up telling ourselves is something like we're bad parents, or our kids are bad kids, or both, right? So just picture this right? Picture your child in protection mode, and your child maybe it feels like they're overreacting to something that you said, or they're getting really defensive about something, right? And we respond with protection mode. And then as we all kind of crash around in protection mode together, and the storm gets bigger and bigger and bigger, we often end up writing the story that we're bad, or they're bad, or we're all bad. If we can resist falling into their dysregulation, we rewrite that story instead their behavior becomes about their dysregulation, not their goodness as a person, and certainly not our goodness as a parent. I can see the dysregulation for what it really is. I can use my X ray vision goggles. They are on solidly, and that completely changes the story and y'all. This is why I have such an emphasis on learning about the neurobiology of behavior, not because I want to excuse, quote- unquote bad behavior. It's not that at all. And if you've listened to this podcast for any length of time, you know that that's so true about me. I'm not here to make excuses. I'm here to understand and get curious about the neuroscience of behavior, about how that behavior starts as a behavioral impulse, long before we ever have a thought or make a choice, and when I shift my own writing of the story around my child's behavior, they now have the opportunity to rewrite the story of themselves. This is just so amazing.

Robyn: So Deb said something else that I thought was very interesting. She encouraged us to trust that our kids are telling us their true biological story, what feels true to them, not what we know that's true, which is that their precious, wonderful, amazing children who are really, really, really struggling. We know that's the true story. But when they're dysregulated, right? And they're telling us the story of their dysregulation, right? Which might sound like, I hate you, or you hate me, something like that, we can trust that they're telling us the biological story that they're experiencing in that moment. Right? We can trust that. We can look at their behavior, see their dysregulation, and think to ourselves, they are trusting me with the story of their biological state. They are feeling so unsafe, and this is how they're expressing it. They're trusting me with the story of their biological state. I have no idea how or why they're feeling so unsafe. Everything is being experienced by them as unsafe, right, as far as I can tell, and I don't know why, but they are, this is their true story in that moment, and I can trust it. I can believe that, and when I trust and I believe that they're telling us exactly their truth that sends cues of safety. My trust that they're telling us their truth, not the truth, but their truth. When I trust that and I believe them, that is sending cues of safety, interpersonal neurobiology would call that coherence, making sense of it, believing it, even if we can't change someone else's state, we can be with the reality of it without judgment. We can be with the truth of it without judgment. That is a cue of safety. Y'all I know so intimately, so clearly, so painfully, what it's like to be with someone whose nervous system is writing a story for them that their dysregulation is all my fault. Of course, when that's somebody's story, we want to argue with it. We want to be seen. Right? For me, there's this instinct of like, no, no, that's wrong. This isn't my fault. I'm not causing this. I am not the cause of your pain. I want my true story to be heard. So I want to argue with their story. We want that person to know we're not causing their pain. We love them. We don't want to be blamed for something that we didn't do, and we don't want to be accused of bad things. 

Robyn: Y'all this happened in my previous role as a therapist, too, clients come in and their nervous system writes a story for them, about me, about their experience with me, about what our relational exchanges mean, right? They're bringing to our work their nervous system, and in a way, that's the whole point of the work is to let their nervous system tell the story. That's the story that they expect based on their previous experiences, and then in the therapeutic experience, we have the opportunity to rewrite that story. But part of my job as a therapist is to allow them and to invite that story to be projected. I need that to happen so that I can hear about and learn about their pain. Clients bring in and project so much hurt and pain. They bring their nervous system story to therapy, and oftentimes that they blame us, the therapist, for that story. And it is so hard and it is so painful, but. As a therapist, it is so much easier to remember the truth that this is part of the process. This is actually my job. I signed up for this. This is just a stage of the process, and we're not going to end here. The thing is, is that that experience also happens in our personal life and in our personal relationships, but it is so much harder to to remember that that person is is just sharing their story with me. It is so much harder to remember that when they experience this happening in my personal life, right when somebody else's nervous system state is leading them to write a story that's blaming me in my professional life, I still can sometimes feel the tug to be defensive or just say, No, that's not true, or or, you know, to be pulled into protection mode. Essentially, I can still feel the tug, but then my job as a professional is to feel the tug and not go where it's being where I'm being invited. In my personal life, this is so much harder. Sometimes I don't even feel the tug. I'm just yanked there, right? I don't even notice that there's a tug. I'm just gone, right? I get super dysregulated myself. I'm moving into feeling indignant and self righteous and all of these other things, right? In those moments, I can't remember that story follows state, so I just try really hard to change the story and to argue and to contradict and to say, no, no, no, no, the story you're writing about this experience and about me and how I'm contributing and to this experience, it's wrong, right? 

Robyn: I argue with the story, and about 1% of the time I remember that if we want to change the story, actually, we have to change the state. I have to rewrite my story of that person that they are at a bad, terrible, mean jerk. They're just regulated, and in that moment, they're telling me their story, their story that they learned in the past about who they're afraid they are, or what they're afraid they're worthy of, or the excruciating pain that they've experienced in relationship. So if I can stay curious about their story and my story, that's the goal. And y'all, I get it. It's a huge goal. It's a very, very, very lofty goal. Most of us are not able to stay that regulated and be that curious in the moment. And I get it. I totally get it. Same for me, but we can practice it outside the moment. We can reflect on it later. We can ask ourselves, what story was my trial, my child trying to tell me about themselves in that moment, and what story was I telling about my child or about myself? How do we change that story? How do we rewrite the nervous system story? Well, we rewrite it with regulation, connection and felt safety. We rewrite the story by relearning what behavior really is. When we look at, for example, the behavior of opposition, and we see the behavior, it is an expression of the nervous system that's rewriting the story when we look at lying as a trauma driven behavior, right? When we can see the behavior through that new lens, we're rewriting the story when we see how actually all behavior makes sense, that rewrites the story. And this is why I am so passionate about the neurobiology of behavior and about distilling down the really hard, complicated science for those of us out in the world, just trying to do the very best that we can in very dysregulated circumstances, it's hard for us to think about and care about and digest a really complex science, and so that's why I'm so passionate about taking that complex science and distilling it down for you and making it useful for you in your regular, everyday, real life. I don't just want to make sense of behavior because. I want to make sense of behavior because it's rewriting the story. It's rewriting their story. It's rewriting our story, which is why I have made all of those infographics. Right? Lying is a trauma driven behavior, opposition, defiance and control. Infographic, the all behavior makes sense. Infographic, right? Like I've made all those infographics so we can rewrite our children's story, we can rewrite the story of who they are, and they can receive a new story. Receive a new idea

Robyn: that they're not bad, that they're struggling, and that their behavior is doing. Exactly what we could expect their nervous system to do based on their past experiences, and that there's hope that there's hope that even though this behavior makes perfect sense now, there are things that we can do to help their nervous system experience more safety, so that they can feel better and have behaviors that feel better for them and for their relationships. I have infographics about all of those things. So if you don't have all of those infographics, I do want you to know that we are actually now storing all those infographics all in one place. You no longer have to go to my website and request each infographic by itself. You can, but you don't have to anymore. Now you can Well, number one, you can request one of those infographics, and then when you get that infographic delivered to you, it will invite you into a very brand new, free resource hub that we have where you could go to and then download all of the free infographics. Or, frankly, you don't even have to download them, because it kind of makes you like this little account. And you could just keep them all there and stored there. And when you want them, you would just log in and go get the one that you want. Or you can go to Robyn gobbel.com/free, resource hub sign up. You have to make an account, like a username and password, but it's super simple. So you make a username and password and then you get access to all of my free resources all in one place, and a click of a button, you just download it, and again, you can download and save them to your device, or you can just go to the free resource hub, that's your account, and get it when you want it or when you need it. So you really don't even have to keep track of them anymore. You just have to keep track of the URL. RobynGobbel.com/freeresource. 

Robyn: This is also, though it's been fascinating to like work on this podcast episode about rewriting the story as I'm concurrently put putting the finishing touches on this week's upcoming webinar on how to teach kids about the brain. And I've taught this webinar a lot, many, many, many times. I teach it at least once a year, but also teach in other places, so I don't have to like write the webinar, but I've been updating it, pushing, you know, putting some new kind of finishing touches on it, updating the science, updating, you know, I learn more every year, and so I update these things every time I teach them. And as I'm working on this webinar about how to help our kids learn about their own owl watch dog and possum brain, right? What we're doing when we do that is helping them rewrite their story. When we give kids information about the state of their nervous system and about their owl and their watchdog and their possum, and maybe we even go more sciency than that. We start talking to our kids about the nervous system and ventral vagus and prefrontal cortex and brainstem. You know, we start to use all of the that that language too, whether we stay in metaphor or we talk about the real science of the nervous system, what we're doing is helping our kids write a new story about themselves. They're not a bad kid whose behaviors are just bad. They're a kid whose nervous system is exceptionally exquisitely sensitive, and it is having a very sensitized stress response. And as a result of that, these behaviors that make sense given their stress response are happening, and not only do they make sense, but there are things that we can do about it. Because if you're just a bad kid, there's nothing we can do about that, right? But if I'm a great kid who's having a vulnerable nervous system response, there's something we can do about that. And so I hadn't really thought about it through exactly that language before, but when we teach our kids about their owl watch dog and their possum brain, we teach them about themselves, and we teach them about the goodness of themselves. We're not giving them excuses, we're not showing them that they're broken. 

Robyn: We're actually doing the exact opposite. We're completely rewriting the story that helps them to eventually see and it takes a lot of time, because the story of trauma, the story of chronic vulnerability in the nervous system, is there's something wrong with me, so it takes a while to rewrite that story. When we teach them about their nervous system and how all behavior makes sense and what they're doing makes perfect sense, we're rewriting the story of them as a perfectly imperfect child who's really, really, really struggling. So all these things that you and I do together, this podcast and my book, raising kids with big, baffling behaviors, and this webinar that I'm teaching and all. All of the resources over in the club, for those of you who are in the club, all of those things, the way we're reframing behavior, the tools that we're learning to help kids be more regulated and connected and feel safe, and the way that we're examining our own self, all of those things are all about rewriting the story of the nervous system. And again, as I was working on this podcast episode, and I was, you know, writing it all out and really thinking about the overall message I wanted to convey here, I just was like, I got chills about it. Like, that's what we're doing. We're constantly working on rewriting the story of the nervous system, and that's bringing safety. That's bringing safety, whether or not we're seeing a behavioral change because of it, it is bringing safety. So y'all this was our third episode where I have taken a deep dive into a portion of that interview with Deb Dana. Next week will be the fourth one and the final one for now, it'll still be a four part series. Next week we'll talk about this piece that Deb and I connected about, which was, where do we go for co-regulation? What do parents do? What do caregivers do, who are living in a state of chronic chaos or chronically neuroceving Danger? Where do we go for co-regulation? How do we get help rewriting our story, and I know that one of the stories of trauma in parenting a child with such dysregulation is traumatic. 

Robyn: One of the stories of trauma is that we're all alone, that there's nobody there, and there never will be anybody there, and we're unsafe and all alone, and there's nothing we can do about it. And next week, we're gonna look at, can we rewrite that story? Can we be honest about what's happening while also kind of rewriting the story of the traumatic experience of raising a kid with such baffling behaviors and vulnerability in their nervous system. And where can we go for help rewriting that story, and especially for those of you listening who feel like there is nowhere I can go for help there I have nobody in my real life or I can turn to for help. We're going to look and see if we can even rewrite that story, the story that there is nobody, and just get curious about it. So I'm not going to be contradictory, and I'm not going to argue with you. I'm going to offer some new options, and just see if we can be curious about the story and look for places where we could rewrite that story. So in this episode, I told you about our new free resource hub. I'll make sure the link for that gets down in the show notes. RobynGobbel.com/freeresource. I also told you about the webinar I'm teaching this week about how to teach kids about their Owl, Watchdog, and Possum brain. I'll make sure that Link gets in the show notes. It's RobynGobbel.com/teachkidsthebrain. It's happening on Thursday, the fourth, the evening of September 4. So if you're hearing this episode before, then you can still register if you're listening to this episode in the future, that webinar is going to be stored over in the club, and so if you would really love the opportunity to see that episode or that webinar and get all of the resources that go along with it, and there's a lot of giving a lot of resources to accompany that webinar in but the webinar has come and gone, just know that that is One of the things you could find in the club, and one of like, a trillion things you can find in the club. So coming to join us in the club, even if it's only to access that webinar get those free resources, will be 100% worth it. So that's at Robyn gobbel.com/theclub if you're listening to this episode in the future. 

Robyn: Otherwise, Raising Kids With Big, Baffling Behaviors is available wherever you buy books online in September 2025 is our two-year birthday. So we are celebrating the two-year birthday of raising kids with big, baffling behaviors. We are just about to cross the 50,000 books sold mark, which is, I don't know y'all, I can't believe that 50,000 books have been sold, and that doesn't even capture, you know, the library and the lending and the borrowing of the book. And so think about all the people who have read, Raising Kids With Big, Baffling Behaviors, very, very exciting. If you aren't already subscribe to the podcast, just hit follow or subscribe different podcast apps use different language, and then you'll be notified when a new episode drops. And if you don't already get my emails, go to RobynGobbel.com and sign up to get those emails so that you will get weekly emails of co-regulation, and you'll always be alerted of new free resources and new podcast episodes, and you'll just be able to stay up on everything that's being offered, whether it be a free resource or a paid training. We're also doing a lot of work behind the scenes on the new Baffling Behavior Training Institute, which is our professional training institute. So just know that there's so much brewing right now you're going to want to be on my email list so that you can be notified and aware of all the new things as they are happening. Alrighty, y'all, I will be back with you again next week. We will do this final episode in this four part series where I dive deep into the interview that I did with Deb Dana. I will see you back here again next week. Bye!