Is Watchdog and Possum Behavior Always Protective? {EP 183}

Robyn: Today we're going to talk about Watchdogs and Possums. So if you are brand, brand, brand new to the Baffling Behavior Show and have no idea what I mean when I say we're going to talk about Watchdogs and Possums, you might want to pause here and scroll back to Episode 84 which is called, 'Focus On The Nervous System To Change Behavior.' And in that episode, I give an overview of one way that we look at the nervous system and behaviors through the lens of Owls, Watchdogs and Possums. So again, that's episode 84 you can pause, scroll back to 84 and then come right back to this episode. There's often some confusion with the parents that I talk to in the club and even with the folks that I train in being with about the Watchdog and the Possum pathways. And the question that comes up is, in some way, shape or form, the question of is the Watchdog or the Possum pathway always protective? So it's like asking, is all Watchdog behavior always because of danger, danger and protection mode? And is all Possum behavior always because of danger and protection mode that sends that person down the Possum pathway. So the answer is no, Watchdog and Possum behavior is not always because of danger and protection mode. Okay, I know that's confusing. I know that's super confusing. So let's back up and kind of start at the very, very, very beginning, which is remembering that the Watchdog pathway is simply a metaphor, or the Watchdog brain, right? It kind of used those words interchangeably.  

Robyn: The Watchdog pathway. The Watchdog brain is a metaphor for the sympathetic nervous system, and a lot of us learned that the sympathetic nervous system, which is the accelerator, it's the activator in the autonomic nervous system. A lot of us learned that the sympathetic nervous system is the same thing- it's synonymous with fight or flight, but it's actually not. The sympathetic nervous system is energy. It's activation, it's mobilization, okay? It's when the nervous system isn't neuroceiving mo re danger than safety, that the nervous system shifts into protection mode and then starts to move down either the Watchdog or the Possum pathway. Okay? So all of that, if you've been listening to the Baffling Behavior Show for any length of time, or if you've read Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, all of that probably feels familiar, right? So far I haven't really said anything new. But can the sympathetic nervous system be activated when there's safety? Can the sympathetic nervous system be activated in connection mode. And the answer to that is yes, the sympathetic nervous system is not about danger, danger, fight-flight. The sympathetic nervous system is about mobilization, activation and energy. Think of times you have felt energy while also feeling safety and connection. Think about times where you've been dancing or playing hard or even just exercising, right? Remember that connection doesn't have to be connection to others. Valid connection is connection to ourselves.  

Robyn: I like to think about, if we're going to stick in the metaphor, I like to think about the Owl and the Watchdog playing together, okay? In polyvagal theory, Dr. Steve Porges just does talk about mixed states. So I imagine the Owl, which is safety and connection, with the Watchdog, which is energy and mobilization, playing together. Energy, activation, mobilization, inside, safety and connection. It is only when the nervous system begins to neuroceive danger, more danger than safety, that the Watchdog pathway is a result of protection mode. So safety and danger shifts the nervous system into connection mode or protection mode, right? If there's felt safety, it's connection mode. If there's danger or life threat, it's protection mode. Then from protection mode, the nervous system activates either the Watchdog or the Possum pathway, so either fight-flight behavior or collapse behavior. So we can take a similar approach with the Possum pathway. If we pull out of the metaphor for a moment, the Possum pathway is in polyvagal terms, the dorsal vagal complex. If we think about Dr Perry's work with state dependent functioning. He talks about the difference between the fight-flight pathway and the dissociation pathway. So the possum pathway is the dorsal vector complex, or the dissociation pathway. The Possum pathway is immobilization. The Possum pathway is deep, deep, deep breaths. Can the dorsal vagal complex, the Possum pathway be activated with safety and connection? Can it be activated in connection mode? And the answer to that is also yes.  

Robyn: Think about times you've felt stillness, deep, deep rest, like snuggling with your favorite person. Y'all pause for a second and remember something really important, and that's that humans are dangerous. They are the most dangerous predator to other humans. It is very, very vulnerable to be so still, so immobilized and so connected to another human. It is so vulnerable and requires a lot of safety. So if we head back into the metaphor I think about the Owl and the Possum snuggling together. 

Robyn: So like I previously mentioned, Dr. Porges and the polyvagal theory, thinks about this as mixed states, right? That there's the mixed state of safety and connection. Has the ventral vagus, the Owl brain, mixed with the dorsal vagal complex, safety and connection Owl, with stillness and immobilization Possum. That can look like snuggling. It can look like other things too, but I think that's a really great image to conjure up that helps kind of get across what we're talking about here. In Dr. Perry's model of neuro-sequential therapeutics and state-dependent functioning, he identifies a state of calm. So on both pathways, both continuums, fight-flight Watchdog. or the dissociation continuum Possum. On both continuums, he begins the continuum with the state of calm. I think about the state of calm on the Watchdog pathway, as the Watchdog at rest, but still scanning for danger. And I think about the Possum at the level of calm on the dissociation continuum, as the Possum being at rest, but also again, still paying attention, right? Still present, still there, still scanning for danger. The Watchdog is always there. When the Owl brain is in charge, the Watchdog and the Possum are still there. They don't go away, but they're calm, they're safe and at rest. Now it might seem like we are diving into some serious minutiae here and getting really lost in the weeds, but it's actually pretty important from the perspective of how we approach healing in the nervous system. We obviously can't, nor do we want to try to get rid of the sympathetic nervous system or the dorsal vector complex, right? We can't get rid of these two branches of the autonomic nervous system, and we don't want to, we can't get rid of them during times of safety when they're maybe calm, or there's these mixed states, but actually, we also don't want to get rid of them during times of danger or life threat, right? We don't want to get rid of them. We just want to help them respond in a way that matches the level of danger, and this is crucial.  

Robyn: We don't want to try to get rid of the Watchdog or the Possum. Now I know that when you live with someone, or you yourself have an overactive Watchdog or Possum pathway, it absolutely can feel like you just want to get rid of it, right? Like it is causing so much chaos and so much havoc. I have such a deep sense of this in the grief I've experienced in my own personal healing, of just feeling so intensely that I wish I could just get rid of Watchdog parts or Possum parts so intensely I've just wished for them to go away. Y'all, I promise you when I say that, I get this. I get this in my bones, the desire to make the Watchdog or the Possum just disappear, it makes perfect sense to want that, and we can't. So since we can't, it's really quite futile to try. But also, y'all, if we work really hard at trying to get rid of something, that means we're in protection mode. Okay, so if I'm trying to get rid of either my own Watchdog or Possum pathway, or if I'm trying to get rid of my child's Watchdog or Possum I am implicitly doing that from a state of being in protection mode. Now, that's not bad, that protection mode y'all, is not criticism, right? We're just noticing and being aware. But think about the last time you tried to, quote-unquote, get rid of something. Did you do that from connection mode, or did you do that from protection mode? I mean, getting rid of something is like setting a boundary, getting something out right? We're going to do that from protection mode. That's where protection mode comes in handy, right? That's what we really need. A part of our nervous system that shifts into protection mode. But also protection mode doesn't invite integration. Protection mode does not prompt the strengthening of the Owl brain, the strengthening of the ventral vagal complex.  

Robyn: So if we have a lot of energy where we're trying to get rid of our child's or ourselves Watchdog or Possum, what that means is we're spending a lot of time in protection mode, and unfortunately, what that also means is we're actually unable to strengthen the Owl brain, right? Because we don't work towards integration. We don't strengthen the owl rain when we're in production mode. Again, this isn't criticism. There are many experiences in life where protection mode is warranted and good and it protects us, and also protection mode when we get stuck there, doesn't strengthen the Owl brain. What that means is finding a way to stay in connection with your own Owl brain is crucial, right? We don't have to do it all the time. Okay? Nobody is suggesting that we want to be in our Owl brains and be in connection mode all the time. That's not reasonable. That's not possible. It wouldn't even be good, but those of us who live with folks who have overactive Watchdog and Oossum pathways often find ourselves falling down the Watchdog and the Possum pathway a lot, right? Just like our kids or our partners, we spend a lot of time in protection mode. So a part of all of this is finding ways for us to spend more time in connection mode- again, not all the time. We're not asking for that, just some recognition of the fact that we probably spend more time in protection mode than we need to, or that is healthy for us or healthy for our family, and so we're looking for ways to stay more in connection mode.  

Robyn: It actually helps us to stay more in connection mode when we can keep in mind the idea that the Watchdog and the Possum are so, so so important- they keep us all safe. And also, if you live with somebody who has an overactive Watchdog or Possum pathway, or if you have an overactive Watchdog or Possum pathway, what we know is that the Watchdog and the Possum are tired. They are overworked, overactive, and they need a rest. And just like when I'm overworked and overtired, I make more mistakes in life, right? The Watchdog and the Possum pathway make more mistakes when they're overactive and overworked, and so they see things and experience things as dangerous and life threatening when really they're safe. Okay, alright, let's take a little look into a play therapist's mind. Now, as a former play therapist, I was always always looking for ways to help kids develop a relationship with all parts of themselves. I was always looking for ways to invite integration with kids, not more disconnection or more dissociation. Shame and anger, prompt dissociation and disintegration. Metaphor play and animals and ultimately what became Owls, Watchdogs, Possums, seems to really help kids develop a relationship with the parts of themselves that seem to always be getting them in to trouble. There is nothing particularly magical about the metaphor of Owls, Watchdogs and Possums. And I had plenty of kids who, as they learned more about themselves and learned more about the nervous system, had their own metaphor, their own way of being with themselves and being with their different parts and the parts that held their overactive sympathetic responses or their overactive dorsal vagal collapses.  

Robyn: The metaphor itself isn't really that important. What's important is developing a relationship with the parts of ourselves that normally we are very unhappy with. This isn't a very scientific thing to say exactly, but watching kids develop a relationship with the parts of themselves that they dislike the most or that other people dislike is really, truly nothing short of magical. I think we can probably all relate to the sense of not liking and maybe even hating parts of ourselves, and it is painful and it is exhausting. We don't want our kids to hate themselves or parts of themselves. We don't want our kids to believe that they are bad. We want our kids to believe that in their core they are good, that they struggle, maybe even struggle a lot. Maybe they've had very, very, very bad things happen to them, but no matter how much they struggle, and no matter how many bad things have happened to them, they themselves are not bad. Humans behave in ways that invite folks to validate their beliefs about themselves. There's a lot of neuroscience, including memory science, that helps us make sense of this phenomenon. We're not going to go all the way into it, but we set people up to believe about us and act towards us in a way that confirms what we believe about ourselves. So if our kids can believe they are good, imagine what might change. And for our kids to believe that they are good, we gotta believe that they are good. They are good, their Watchdog and their Possum brains are good, because y'all changing how we see people changes people. This is why it is why it is so so so important to remember that the Watchdog and the Possum aren't always protective. They are also calm, keeping an eye out for danger, and they are also playful, and they are also snuggly, and the protective parts of our Watchdog and Possum brain are good too. What's hard is when they're overactive. What's hard is when they're very, very, very sensitized and teeny tiny triggers, teeny tiny threats, very few cues of danger activate a full blown Watchdog or Possum response. If you're new here, it might feel like again, I'm really getting lost in the weeds, or I'm really swimming in a lot of minutia. And if you're new here, that might be true. This might be more in the weeds, more granular, more minutia than you need right now.  

Robyn: So if it feels like whoa, what is this lady even talking about? Again, head back to Episode 84 which is 'Focus On The Nervous System To Change Behavior.' Or you can go to my website and watch the 'Focus On The Nervous System To Change Behavior' webinar. Or download the short ebook for free all about how to focus on the nervous system to change behavior. Again. That's episode 84 or robyngobbel.com/masterclass. Or, actually, you could go to the Start Here, curated podcast feed. It is a separate podcast feed, separate from the Baffling Behavior Show. It just includes 10 episodes. The same 10 episodes can be found here on the Baffling Behavior Show, but I took the 10 episodes that if I wanted people to start in a certain place and go in a certain order, this is where I would have them start, and this is the order I would have them in, and I put them into a separate podcast feed, and it's called the Start Here podcast, and that's at robyngobbel.com/starthere. So those are some options for you. If you're feeling like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this was way too much. But if you're a long time listener, maybe this level of exploring some of these small pieces here, right? Maybe this level of looking at no, no, we don't want to feel like we're trying to get rid of the Watchdog or the Possum. We want to help them rest. Maybe, if you're a long time listener, this level of depth felt really helpful.  

Robyn: So I think that's it for today. I think I covered everything I wanted to cover with regards to this question of is the Watchdog or the Possum always protective? Of course, if you want to dive deeper, you can grab Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors. It's in paperback, audiobook, ebook. Oh my gosh, y'all. I actually just recently learned from my publisher that Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors has sold over 20,000 copies. What this is unbelievable to me, unbelievable. Unbelievable. Think of how there are 20,000 more people out there in the world who are getting acquainted with seeing behavior through the lens of the nervous system. That's 20,000 less people that you have to educate. I am so so so thrilled for this. If you haven't read Raising Bids With Big Baffling Behaviors, you can get that again, like I said, paperback, ebook and audio. If you read it and you loved it and you want to leave a review over on Amazon. You don't have to have bought it on Amazon to review it on Amazon. That is the best way to help more folks discover Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors. Same with the podcast. If you have a second to leave a rating or review on the podcast in your podcast app, that is the number one way to help other folks discover the Baffling Behavior Show. And what I hope for in that, what I hope for in more folks discovering this way of seeing behaviors through the lens of the nervous system, right? The more folks who have this education and support, the less hard y'all have to work to educate and support them. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for everything you do, to care for kids, to care for yourselves, to care for each other, and I will see you back here next week on the Baffling Behavior Show!