Why Kids Act Better For Other People {EP 170}

Robyn: So let's start with the first one. Why do we act worse when we feel safer? Especially if I say regulated, connected kids who feel safe do well? Well, the easiest way to conceptualize this is to just personalize it, right? I know that in all ways, all ways. Every single one. I act the worst at home. And yes, it is because I'm safest there. So what does that mean? Right? If I'm safer, why am I sometimes more dysregulated? And I mean, y'all, not just more dysregulated but like the literal worst amount of dysregulated. Right? The behavior that I can have at home, I would never have anywhere else. And this is of course true about my kid. And my husband too. I mean, hands down. I've seen behavior from both of them, that no one ever has, and probably no one ever will. So why, why is that true? How can we act the worst, when we actually are the safest? So I think it's easy enough to conceptualize that we'll let the people were the closest to see us at our worst, right? There is actual safety, in that there is safety in the strength of the relationship, there is safety in the belief that that relationship can withstand a lot of rupture, right? There is trust in the repair in those closest, safest, most connected relationships And as, you know, backwards as it might seem sometimes, I think there's just a fundamental truth to being human, that when we have that level of trust in the repair, that we are going to feel safe enough to have really big ruptures.    

Robyn: But what is actually happening neurobiologically in that, and should we really assume that our kids dysregulation is a result of them feeling safer? I mean, in general, I actually think we shouldn't assume a whole lot. So let's get in and explore like the nitty-gritty of this. There is a level of safety that invites in regulation, of course, like, as you know- I'm constantly talking about how we wanna offer safety to folks who are dysregulated. And when we offer safety and that safety is received, we will also often see the nervous system, fall back into, shift into, find moments of regulation, right? Safety, equals coherence, equals regulation. But it's also true- and you know this, even if you've never really, you know, dissected it like this, that there's a level of safety, or a lack of, that actually invites in dysregulation. The dysregulation, as odd as it might seem, is actually the nervous systems attempt at finding regulation again, right? There's this balance between regulation and dysregulation in our nervous system. And we actually can't have regulation without dysregulation, we have to have some disorganization to move back into organization, this is really just kind of simply the way complex systems work. And humans are complex systems. So dysregulation is the nervous systems attempts at finding regulation again, and with that regulation will come safety. And there's also a level of safety that allows dysregulation to feel safe enough to bubble up to the surface, right? And there's a level of safety that gives us permission, usually unconsciously, to release all of the pressures from working so hard all day long, to stay regulated. And when we feel safe, we stop working as hard to stay regulated. It's really, really hard to stay regulated in the world, the world is full of chronic stressors, I mean, very, very, very little in life is easy. Even when things seem easy. They're not even, for example, if school is the safe, easy space for your child. And for some kids, it actually is, of course, for many kids, it's absolutely not. But even if school is an easy, safe space for your child, school and making it through the school day requires a lot, right? Social skills are really complex, keeping the body still enough to be appropriate for the school environment, the pressures of a behavior chart or of getting a good grade, right? And those examples like barely barely scratched the surface of the stressors that are happening all day long, when our kids are not in our care someplace like school. Now, to be clear, I'm not suggesting that these stressors are bad, or that we should necessarily be doing something to change them. I mean, maybe we should. But also, maybe we shouldn't, Life is stressful. And that's not bad. Stress isn't inherently bad. You can go back to the stress response system podcast to learn a little bit more about that. The stress response system is episode 94. Do you need to scroll back a bit to find that particular episode? And I will make sure that that gets linked to in the show notes as well.   

Robyn: So again, I'm not suggesting stressors are bad or we should be changing all stressors, some, yes, but not all. Regardless, we're just going to agree, Life is stressful. Life is stressful for kids, and life is stressful for us and regulating through that chronic stress of life? It takes a lot to work. Sometimes, regulating through the chronic stress of life is real, honest, true regulation, right? Regulation is in that space within our nervous system on which we can tolerate stress without freaking out. And without question, regulating through stress all day long is real, true honest regulation. Sometimes, of course, it can be what we would call some masking, which is kind of like fake regulation, right? It has that kind of almost disconnection or dissociation from self, there's a little bit of like, grin and bear it just get through it. That's not the same thing as true regulation. And yes, masking is pretty hard on the nervous system. But even true, honest, authentic regulation, our nervous systems ability to tolerate and navigate stress without freaking out, it's a lot of work. Right? And in addition to that, our kids are spending a lot of time without the co-regulation from us, right? So let's just say you have a child who goes to school seven or eight hours a day, that's a long time to be without your primary co-regulator. Again, I'm not even saying that this is bad. I mean, for some kids, it's probably too long. But I'm not even saying you know, having to go 6, 7, 8 hours a day is bad or something we should be changing. But I think we should be just acknowledging the reality of it, that it's a lot of time to spend without our primary source of co-regulation.    

Robyn: As kids get older, their internalized regulation of us gets stronger and stronger and stronger, of course, but it's still a long time to be away from the safety of your primary source of co-regulation and connection. You may be have heard of the phenomenon that's called after school restraint collapse, this is what I'm talking about, like that there's safety and finally returning to the connection and co-regulation that your child knows, is probably not going to reject them long term. But also just very simply, in this moment, is finally able to be with you to receive some co-regulation from you. So so both things are happening, right? Like there's this, there's this release, there's this, like, 'finally, I can kind of like release the pressure valve from all of this pressure that's been building up all day. But also, finally, I can allow my dysregulation to get the co-regulation it really, really needs. Because my primary source of co-regulation is finally there.' Okay, so that kind of describes really that phenomenon of after school restraint collapse.    

Robyn: Now, of course, it could also just be true that being home is stressful to write that being home for all sorts of different reasons. And for your kids in different ways, home is stressful, as well. And so your kid might be more dysregulated at home, because home is really stressful. And then, in addition to that, because of all the things I just talked about, your kid is not working as hard to use all of their regulation skills. Now, this isn't conscious. It's certainly not unusual. It's not indicative of bad character. Again, we all do this, we all have, quote-unquote, after work, or after wherever we've been outside our family, restraint collapse. We all do a much poorer job of regulating through stressors at home, than we do out in the world with other people. And it's real easy to say, if you can get it together and be regulated school, then you can be regulated and act better at home. But ask yourself, is that possible for you most of the time, can you always find your regulation at home so that you don't hurt the people you love the most? And I'll just be the first to say that that's not true for me. I cannot always do that. Now, I actually do spend, because of my job in particular, a lot of time considering the truth that my family deserves to get the best parts of me in the way that my clients do. Like my job is to show up and be my best self, and offer co-regulation, and have a lot of space and capacity for dysregulation, right? And because that is my job, because I'm much better at that at work than I am at home. And that will always be true no matter what I do, I do try to think about that, like I do try to really think like, hey, you know, my family deserves to get the best me as often as possible. But again, the fact that they don't, is just me being human. And please, please hear me when I say like, I'm not making excuses for myself. Not saying it's okay for me to be the biggest jerk to my family. It's definitely not okay. But again, it's also kind of simply just the human condition.   

Robyn: Now, I said we're going to look at to two things. And one of them is that why sometimes increased safety can lead to increased dysregulation. That's what we just looked at. But also, let's now look at how for some kids, the increased connection and relationship at home, as opposed to somewhere like school actually decreases safety, which seems really counterintuitive. So what if your child has a history of caregivers, that- or a history of having caregivers that have left your child with some disorganization, and their nervous system, and if you're not sure what I mean by disorganization, you can head back to my attachment series, which is very, very long time ago on the podcast. And then there's a episode specifically about disorganized attachment. So the attachment series starts back at episode 34. I just looked, 34. And the episode about disorganized attachment is episode 38. And I also have created a free download, a free ebook about the attachment series, kind of summarizes the attachment series. So if you'd rather read, then listen, you can do that at robyngobbel.com/ebook and learn about attachment and disorganized attachment there.    

Robyn: But what if your child has a history with caregivers that have left them with some disorganization in their nervous system, right, and which means then, that connection, and safety, and co-regulation is actually experienced as dangerous, as opposed to as safe and co-regulating. Then what happens is it's the connection, and the relationship, and the intimacy of family that becomes the trigger, and can lead to the dysregulation. So in this way, it's not exactly actually that our kid is safer at home, it's that the intimacy of connection that comes along with a family is being experienced in their nervous system as not safe because of their previous experiences and then that is contributing to some dysregulation. Now, this actually might also be true of our parenting partners, too. I hear from a lot of y'all, that what you are learning on this podcast, you've been able to apply to other people in your life, your partners, and of course yourself too. Our attachment relationships are always going to touch our most deeply buried memories of attachment. And many, many, many of us have some experiences in our attachment history where we were hurt in connection. And so it is the very setup of the intimacy of a family, connected experience that is going to, kind of, create the perfect recipe for those deepest, most buried, kind of, memories of dysregulation in attachment or in connection. This is really true across the board that we're always going to be more triggered and much more likely to have our old stuff awakened and triggered by our most intimate, closest relationships.    

Robyn: Now again, I'm not going to dive deep- super deep and all of this because I do have past episodes about disorganized attachment when connection is dangerous, I'll make sure those things get in the show notes. But I wanted to express this idea that our kids act worse at home because they are, quote-unquote, safer. And that's actually a bit of a nuanced thing to say. That yes, the safety of the connection, and the intimacy for some of our kids means that now they feel safer for the dysregulation to come to the surface. For some kids, it's the safety that's the trigger of danger, right? The cue of danger. Maybe your kid is acting out the implicit memory of being rejected by caregivers. And again, this is something that happens from disorganized attachment, we all have this hope to be safe and seen as students insecure. But also, we all expect to receive what we got most in our history. And for some of our kids, what they got most was a lot of hurt and pain. So even though they're really hoping to be safe, seen, soothed, and secure, they're expecting to be hurt or be met with dysregulation. And all of us, this is not unique to the kids that we care for, all of us, all of us, all of us behave in ways that invite others to behave the way that we're expecting them to. Again, I explore this idea really thoroughly in my attachment series. So you can head back to Episode 34. Or you can go to robyngobbel.com/ebook, and you can get the ebook.    

Robyn: Last thing I want to talk about is that in addition to perhaps some histories of disorganized attachment, there could be other reasons our kids don't feel as safe at home. And that may be what's contributing to some of their increased dysregulation. This doesn't necessarily have to be always true, or longterm true, that there's some things happening where kids aren't feeling safe at home. But y'all, most families I know do go through hard things that impact a child's sense of felt safety. And those kinds of situations, you know, that can cause uncertainty or instability can make it difficult for kids to feel like they have a lot of predictability and certainty. So that can be things like moves, divorce, even just periods of time where the parents or the grown ups are more stressed about something, for example, a global pandemic, right? I mean, when my husband was in the like deepest depths of his neuro-immune crisis that was traumatic and scary for all of us, and certainly for my kid, and is going to increase dysregulation while it's decreasing felt safety. He again, even in the quote-unquote, best of families, I don't know what that means. I don't know what a best family is. Families go through times of challenge, times of dysregulation, times where safety feels a little tenuous. And sometimes, I know I have to step back and look at is what I'm seeing here and my kids behavior- is that a result of the fact that right now our home isn't feeling as safe as it typically does? And just be kind of honest about that. Lots of compassion, and then lots of curiosity of, 'okay, is there something I can do about this?' There isn't always but if there is something I can do about this, of course, I want to try to do something about it.    So y'all in summary, yes, felt safety invites regulated and connected behavior, but safety can also invite dysregulation to be expressed. And even places that are normally the child's experience of felt safety, you know, they can have time periods, where that safety is tenuous or more vulnerable. In the moments of intense dysregulation, there is a lack of regulation in the nervous system. The dysregulation is a lack of safety, that doesn't mean lack of safety invited in the dysregulation, but once the dysregulation is here, the nervous system is lacking in some safety, it's chaotic, and it's attempting to find integration and regulation again. Now, I know I haven't exactly I told you what to do. But there are lots of episodes on the podcast where you can explore exactly that, where there's tools that I offer to help you invite safety into your family, offer safety to your child. Of course, of course, you can always check out Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, my book- tons and tons of ideas in there about how to offer safety and experiences of safety to your kids.    

Robyn: What I really wanted to do with this episode is to offer you some coherence and some curiosity about what might be happening and why kids are more dysregulated at home where they're theoretically safer, because coherence and curiosity actually is a tool that invites in felt safety. Coherence tends to give us a little more space. And by coherence, I mean, making sense of- making sense of something tends to give us a little more space in our own nervous system where we can then hang on to our regulation a little bit longer. So if you've been baffled or perplexed about why your kid acts better other places then they do at home, especially if safety is supposed to invite regulation, I hope that this episode helped bring some coherence to you, helped to make it a little bit more sense. And, you know, maybe offered some spaces where we can approach these questions was some more curiosity. As always, y'all I'm so grateful that you have tuned into the podcast. If you haven't checked out my website lately, I'm gonna invite you to head over there when you have an opportunity. The free resources page is full of exactly that, free resources, webinars, ebooks, infographics, downloadables, and it's growing all the time. I'm constantly making more things to help you and to give away to you for free and things that you can then give to folks who are supporting you with your kids, you know, therapists, teachers, partners, grandparents, people like that.    

Robyn: At robyngobbel.com/podcast, there's a search bar. And so if you ever find yourself wondering if I have an episode about a certain topic, head there, type that word into the search bar, and see if anything comes up. I mean, I think I really actually don't remember but I this episode might be episode 170ish. We're right around there. That's a lot of archives. So use that to your advantage and go and check out that search feature at robyngobbel.com/podcasts. And then of course, my website gives you all the other information that you might want to be checking out about ways I can support you in different ways you can read about the club, my community for parents, you can read about Being With, my professional training program. And of course, you can read about Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, my book which is available in paperback and audiobook that I read and also in ebook. Wow, that's a lot. Alright, y'all. I am going to see you back here again next week. Thank you again, so much for everything you do, to care for yourself and to care for these kids, and to be a part of this, kind of, movement I think we're all a part of in contributing to make the world a safer place. I'll see you next week!