This Mom’s Story: Marna Pacheco’s Innovative Way of Supporting Vulnerable Nervous Systems {EP 140}

Robyn: Today I’m hosting a guest- my dear friend Marna Pacheco- founder of Capeable. Marna was my second, live in person guest- my first was my husband who obviously lives here so Marna was my first live guest who doesn’t live in my house. Marna came up to Michigan for the most marvelous day together. We talked, we laughed, we ate a lot of cheese, and finally, as the day was starting to come to a close, we set up microphones and the sound mixer in my backyard and recorded this podcast in my favorite place ever. I’ll be sure to post a couple pics over on social media.

Robyn: Marna is a business owner, an entrepreneur, a vibrantly wonderful human, and the mom to a child with an exceptionally vulnerable nervous system. Marna’s parenting journey inspired her to create Capeable- a company that creates weighted products using the technology Marna developed and patented called SmartWeight.

Robyn: Y’all. Marna is simply brilliant. Her passion for helping kids and families just explodes off of her. I’m so thrilled to introduce you to Marna Pacheco- to give her the opportunity to be seen and witnessed and held by y’all, my generous and compassionate listeners, and for you to feel seen and known as you resonate with the parts of Marna’s journey that perhaps mirror your own. 

Robyn: Marna. Thank you so much. Here we are in my backyard! 

Marna Pacheco: It's so wonderful. 

Robyn: We have had an amazing day. 

Marna: Yes, we have. 

Robyn: Yes, everybody. I'm so happy to introduce you to my dear friend, Marana who has driven up from her home to spend the day with me. And as the sun starts to set, we're in the back yard. 

Marna: It's amazing. Yes. 

Robyn: Yeah. Microphones and podcasting.

Marna: I know. So natural, right. It has really been such a lovely day. And I'm just so grateful for your friendship. So grateful for this time to be in person with you. So thank you for just being a blessing to me.

Robyn: Yes, me too. What a fabulous day and what a fabulous friendship we’ve started.

Marna: Yes. Two years ago.

Robyn: I know two years. Almost exactly. Yes. Wow. Almost exactly. Marna tell everybody listening, who you are and what you do and why we're here together?

Marna: Well, I'm here because you [laughs], and to just have this time to just feel filled up. So that's what was so special about being able to be close enough to drive up here and just be in your presence. And it's just always so much fun. So thank you and your family is so lovely. But my name is Marna Pacheco, and I am the creator of capable weighted products. I am a mom, who had to create something out of a deep need for my daughter, whom we adopted when she was a little over two years old. I have a husband named Dan. And I have an older daughter named Maddie. And so as a family, we started on that journey of adoption. 

Robyn: Yes. 

Marna: And it created– I say she inspired Capeable weighted products. And then all the things that moms do for research and fixing everything really ended up creating smart weight technology, which is just a phrase of what we do differently with our weighted products ultimately called Capeable, because it started with a sweet little pink cape.

Robyn: Yes. I can't wait to tell everybody all about Capeable and just the amazingness that you have to offer. And I want to talk about how we met first! [laughter]

Marna: Okay, I love it!

Robyn: So I don't know if I've ever actually even told you this, but I was pre reading Marty Smith's book. And that was right about–  that was just prior to the rising tide conference where you and I met. And Marty had talked about you kind of in passing but you know, Marty is.. She just has a lot to say! 

Marna: She does! [laughter] 

Robyn: And so I never really like latched on to it or was like Well tell me more about this Marna person or anything like that. But then she mentions Capeable in her book. And so I was like, oh okay, now I'm starting to put all these pieces together. And then Marty was really the reason I went to Rising Tide in person, right. I was maybe going to just present virtually. Rising Tide is this conference put on by our friend, Michael Remole, Down and nowheresville, Indiana. Dansville India. 

Marna: Uh yes, Illinois. 

Robyn: Illinois. Yeah, that's right. It wasn't even Indiana. We stayed in Indiana, but it's in Danville, Illinois. Okay. So Marty was like, “Robyn you have to come, Robyn you have to come.” And I finally said, “Okay, Marty, I'll come.” And we've even just upstairs we're talking about like, what an amazing, you know, what an amazing “yes” that was was, which is where you and I got to meet. And of course, we met some other really wonderful humans. 

Marna: Yeah, some wonderful OTs that are in Marty's tribe, right? So she always is such a connector. And I just love that about her so much. And, of course, she convinced me to attend the conference as well. Now, I attended it the year before and met Michael and his family, which are wonderful. And so I was really excited about attending this conference. And she said, there's other OTs and of course, I love OTs. And, but what she did not tell me was that Robyn Gobbel would be there. And we ended up having to go back to the place we were staying. It was just her and I and she goes, “Well, I need to be there because Robyn is coming.” And I'm like, “Well Robyn who?” “Robyn Gobbel” And I went, “[gasp]. And I remember going okay, Marna just calm down. I've been following her for six years. I don't want to fan girl. Okay, this is crazy. I can't believe– what do you mean, Robyn Gobbel. Like, really Robyn Gobbel. And so of course, we had a good laugh with that. And I'm trying to be real cool and calm. And, you know, like, like, I meet Robyn every day. And so it was late at night, you had driven all day and came in and had a beautiful place that we were staying at. But that was the first time I've met you. And I also have a second memory of that time, which was the next day, I believe it was when the conference started. And I just remember going, I am so out of my element here. I'm with all these amazing people, OTs that are just so smart and amazing with what they do, how they help and then of course you and then of course, just the whole conference as a whole I was just there to soak it all up. And just to learn because of our– my own experience and our family's experience with our adoption and with our our daughter, Millie. And so I remember the next day, we went through this series of Dr. Bruce Perry, of course, was presenting virtually, and just had so much fun, so much laughter so much yummy stuff that was happening. And then I had to go back to my booth and showcase the capable product for anybody who was walking by. But then all of the OTs wanted to like try it out and test it and see it. And you were standing off in the back. And I remember after it was all done, you came up to me and you said, “You are the real deal.” Or something like that. And I felt so validated by you. And I was just like, oh, wow, that was just a huge moment for me. I was really grateful for it, and got the product on you and you loved it. And I was so grateful for that and then really just the start of a friendship and so grateful.

Robyn: Well, that's so interesting, because that is truly like the next part of the story I was going to tell which is like, you know, we did not know each other at all. No think we had– we sat next to each other at lunch. And that was sweet. And, you know, we started to get to know each other but then yes, exactly what you're remembering is I just stood there and watched you on a break in your booth with Capeable and I mean, I guess we would say like you know, quote unquote, selling Capeable but you weren't selling Capeable. You were like, right, professing your love for this product that you've created with your mind but your heart. And I literally said they're like an off like, I don't know that I've ever seen somebody be so committed to this thing I've created and am offering here will change your life and like how much you just feel that in your bones like how much you love what you've created at Capeable and just believe in it with all your heart and soul and believe in how much it could help families. 

Marna: Yes, ultimately, you know, as I've told you before, I hate selling. I'm not a salesperson.

Robyn: You don't need to sell because it's so obvious!

Marna: But I do love educating. Yes. And I think that's where the passion comes from. Not only because I'm living that life experience with the baffling, hard behaviors, and I was so desperate to find something that could help for not only our family, ultimately Millie and our whole family. But then as you do dig deeper into the research, and you understand what trauma does to the brain, what happens with attachment issues, if you will. And then you start understanding the neurobiology of everything, and you have this product that's weighted, that's been around, and there was no formulas and theories about it. And then just what Millie did to inspire the difference. And then it's like, okay, wait a minute, I need– I need to tell other people because this way that weight was being done, just really didn't feel respectful to the human. It felt degrading, it felt controlling of behaviors, it was like restriction, or restraint, which should not be and yet I was seeing such amazing results for my daughters, and really, for my daughter, and for others coming in, like OTs and other professionals and colleagues that were coming in saying, “There's something different about this, there's something different about that product, what is it?” And that ultimately became the passion and the message. And really, what I've been wanting to share about weighted product is if it is done correctly, it can be an amazing tool, one tool of many tools that we need, but a tool that really is safe, it's connecting, and it's regulating. And that is what I wanted to do with the research that I had dug deeply into with the product. 

Robyn: So let's back way, way, way up. Because you're not an occupational therapist, you're not a professional in the field who knows about weight, and what that does to the nervous system, you are not a manufacturer. So how did you create a company that sells weighted products?

Marna: Such great question. Well, I do love to sew, and that ultimately led to the creation of the product. But more than that, I was looking for something, always, tool wise. And so Millie's occupational therapist said, “Have you looked into waited products?” And I said, “No.” So like any mom would do, she gets online, you scour the internet, you're going, “What is all this?” And I saw weighted blankets, I saw lap pads. And then I saw this weighted vest, and the weighted vest look like an ugly institutional straight jacket. And I went, I am not putting that on my daughter. She unfortunately was tied up and left to die, ultimately, which I hate saying that, but it is the truth of her story. And so I was kind of like, okay, well, I can make a weighted blanket. So when to join fabrics and picked out some fabric, picked out some plastic poly pellets and made a weighted blanket. What I found real quick is when you multiply the squares, it gets heavier and heavier and heavier. But then I made a lap pad and the way it was folded, she put it around her neck, so then I added a snap to it so she could wear it. But ultimately, it was the way to blanket that gave me the clue. She stood up and it fell down at her feet. And I went, Okay, wait a minute here. I need to get her out the front door. I need her to be able to feel safe in that environment, whether it's at the store, in the car, going to any kind of event. And what I found is Millie just could not handle that sensory overload. And so I actually happen to collect vintage patterns. And on the pattern I saw a Vogue 1950s capelet and I went “Hmm, okay, wait a minute, what if I could make something wearable for her?” And so I remember going and shopping for pink fabric and then I remember the research with Dr. Temple Grandin on sensory processing. And there was a couple of lightbulb moments in that research I read from her which was about compression and deep touch. And her squeeze machine was a was not just like boards it was more like an air– I guess air mattress you could say, maybe not mattress, but something you could push air into it. And the person would lie in the squeeze machine, top and bottom come down. And they, the user would have the control to be able to put more deep touch pressure, or less depending on their need or what they desired. And so I just remember going, okay, wait a minute, it's foreign nerve activation. And I thought, Well, if she's standing in an upright position, and I saw the ugly weighted vest, and they have beanbags, and they just put it in the perimeter of the vest, I’m like well, it needs to compress needs to conform to her body, it needs to stay in contact with more nerves, it needs to actually be a hug while she's standing up. And so that created the first design of that weight not falling down to the bottom or the perimeter of the cape. And so it was a quilted concept. And it just it came together, I put snaps on it. And then when I took it to the occupational therapist, she just– I always say she went gaga over it. And she was like, I've never seen anything like this before. Oh my goodness. Okay, so she literally made me set up shop in the waiting room where there were six individual different practices, and speech, PT OT, and she goes, I want a stepper for my clients, I'm sure the parents are going to want these for their children. And I looked at her and I said, I'm the mom of a special needs daughter, I really don't have time to do this. And besides my daughter, afraid of the noise of the sewing machine at home, and do realize how each individual pocket you have to fill. And I'm like, This is really hard. And so I actually put it on the shelf for three years before doing anything about it. And then just providentially I had another adopted mom friend who wanted to look at the Cape. And I did make a few friends here and there. And for the occupational therapist, and of course, Millie wore hers, and everyone would just be like, Oh, look at this sweet little pink cape. But eventually, it ended up moving into something greater, which was becoming a manufacturer. Now before I get to that story, I have to tell about the first time Millie wore her pink cape. Therapy is about an hour away from where I live and where you would have to drive we didn't have services in the town that we live in. And so when I would do all the therapies on many multiple days, there was always the Starbucks, Target run, right? Get it mom time. And so I remember putting the sweet little pink cape on her and put her into of course, the shopping cart. And we're sitting there and I start pulling out. And of course, right there at the beginning. There's lots of little things you can look at. And she was doing okay. And then there was more aisles and more aisles and morals. And what happened was, we were able to literally go through all have those aisles without the massive meltdowns. That ultimately would mean we have to scoop up, let's leave quickly. And ultimately to parents or anybody around would be like, Why aren't you controlling your child and you know, just the judgment stairs, and just what it did to me personally, where, okay, I can't even go through the store. And yet I knew it was hard for her. But it was also hard for me. But this time, we get all the way to the checkout lane. And the checkout person said, “Well look at that pretty little princess in her pink cape.” And she tried to interact with Millie. And then she looks at me and then she goes, “Is she–”. And I said, “Yes, she is, special needs.” And she goes, “Well she is just so adorable in that cape.” And Millie was just kind of happily sitting there in the cart, which was a miracle. And I just remember going, oh my goodness, someone recognized my daughter before her behaviors, and didn't judge me, didn't judge her. And it was just such a surreal moment for me. It just meant so much and I thought if that is what can happen to me with something that my daughter inspired because that blanket fell down at her feet, to then making a cap, to then going out and about and being able to maneuver life if you will, to the OT therapist who just went gaga over this cape. Something is special about this product. And even if I could have designed the story, I could have never made up what this story has become. And that really was the very beginning of it, even though it did sit on the shelf for about three years after that.

Robyn: So then you became a manufacturer?

Marna: Yes. Who takes that? Seriously?

Robyn: It's one thing to create a digital product, or I don't know a lot of things right. But here you are with an actual manufacturing plant!

Marna: Yeah, that was a lot of stepping off the diving board, if you will, and not knowing where or how you're going to fall. I honestly,  you know, I look back and I go, why did I do that? What made me have that boldness. And I often say, a lot of people think that I'm brave and confident. I think I just messed that up. How does that go? I often say, I'm not brave, but I am bold, yes. And that boldness, or passion or need, just kept driving me to make sure that this product really was excellent. And it was current to neuroscience that it was, it was what I was learning and all the research for my daughter to help her, that this was not sloppily made, or that it was just another weighted, heavy product, it really, really needed to be done correctly. And so normally, when you create a product, you find out who can make it for you. And a lot of times it gets shipped offshore to be made if you've got the money to do that. But really what happened is, I was like, sure, we can rent a 5400 square foot facility, sure, we're going to figure out how to make this, sure, we're going to make this shirt. Sure! And you just keep going. And so ultimately, what happened is we created a specially designed machine for the distribution of weight. So there's one thing in creating a product, it's another thing, creating a product that can be manufacturable. And actually be able to go through the process of that. And that is really difficult, actually more difficult than I would have ever believed. And so then you create a manufacturing process, how do you make the product? What do you do? And then of course, in my mind, I'm thinking, I went to this therapy, this therapy, this therapy for my daughter, what more products could be made, that would actually allow it to be user friendly, you know, not just one and done, because not everyone's going to want to wear a cape. Why we're called Capeable  is because cape we pronounce it correctly spell it wrong, because it started with the sweet little pink cape. I know we were talking about that earlier, like what's a Capeable, but it really became a powerful word. Because ultimately it was about you are capable, you are capable, everyone is capable, to be uniquely capable. However, whatever those capabilities are, those are enough. And I knew that my daughter would probably not, quote unquote, be neurotypical in the typical way. But it didn't mean that she should be considered less than or have a big part in life to contribute because she is contributing, even though it's that hard, beautiful miracle thing that we live with daily with her.

Robyn: What's unique about the way that Capeable does weighted– because lots of people are making weighted products, and even in the last few years since we've met, I think it was even since then, that we have seen them like at Target and at Walmart. So what is so unique about the way y'all do weight that made you make a machine and start your own manufacturing company?

Marna: Well, first of all, because there was research behind this, because it was understanding how weight needed to activate the nerve and stay in contact with the nerve was super important, but I'll kind of go back to the history of weight. So typically weight about 30 years ago was started in the mental health community, for those struggling with big behaviors like schizophrenia and all those different kinds of diagnoses. And they were actually trying to come up with an alternative to a restraint. But what happens when you get bigger behaviors, if you will, more weight, more weight, more weight was being applied, which ultimately then did act like a restraint or restriction to that person. So then in– that was in the 70s. In the 80s, they were also diagnosing children with autism are those with autism as a mental illness, which we know that that is not true. And so the weighted blankets, if you will ended up falling over into that category of community, and it was like, Well, I have children now with these heavy weighted products, and they were being applied. And if you're not careful with anything, it can, you know, make decisions that aren't always wise. And so you have to be careful with weighted products. So, in the 90s, when Dr. Temple Grandin started writing white papers about deep touch pressure, then it went into more of the sensory side of things. But with that weight, what happened is they were looking at the total weight of the product, or let's just say, a blanket, for example, a king sized blanket, and they weren't looking at the dimensions. So the question is, do you have a 30-pound king size blanket? Or do you have a 3- pound baby size or smaller size blanket, and they were just focused on the weight. And so then, in order for decisions to be safe, a formula comes up, and the formula was 10 to 15% of the body weight, adding a pound or two. Now, ultimately, that formula actually came from the pediatrics with spine, spinal health. And if you carry a purse as an adult, that purse or backpack should not be more than 10 to 25% of the body weight. And if you're a child, it was five to 10, sometimes five to 15% of the body weight. And so it was kind of like, okay, there it is, there's our formula, we'll just make sure that total amount of weight is only a percentage of the body weight. And, again, going back, well, how do you know, if you have 30-pounds of a blanket? What's that size? What does that mean? How should– how, what are the details in that? So basically, when I did the research, and then also just research from Polyvagal Theory, from Dr. Steven Porges, Dr. Bruce Perry's work. Karyn Purvis’s work, The Connected Child just in general. Anything also within the OT, understanding sensory. It needed to be more about nerve activation. And so the focus of our weight is really the distribution of weight. And that distribution of weight is every two inches, because we are all a little round and curvy. Me more others [laughter] so in that round and curvy when you lay a weighted blanket over you, of course, it's weighted, so it's going to fall to the sides of your legs, or your tummy or your arms or whatever. And so the distribution of weight typically was a six inch square or pouch or pocket, if you will. And that allowed for a lot of shifting and bunching and uneven joint compression. And so the first clue was if deep touch therapy is the three C's of deep touch therapy, which we call it SmartWeight-Technology, then the three C's are: it needs to conform to any shape or body size, it needs to compress evenly and gently and it needs to be in constant contact with more nerves. And the only way to do that is to have a smaller pocket, but then it went a little bit deeper in the understanding of then how much pressure do you put in that two inch square pocket if you will? And that became, okay, well how do you know if it should be a one inch square, two inch square, three inch square, four inch square, it was really coming down to the two point discrimination, which is when you can tell the difference of more touch points. So if you had two sticks, and they fell outside of 1.5 and 2.5 inches, you would not be able to tell. If it's under 1.5 inches and you had two sticks touching you, if you will, you would not be able to tell that you had two sticks touching you. Okay, let's get that– see you're at the brain scouts person! Oh, good! So then I was like okay, well then do needs to fall within that measurement so that we can get more touch points, stay in constant contact with more touch points. Make sure that it is evenly distributed so that there's freedom of movement. Because the other thing that would happen is when you get a 30 pound blanket on you, well, if it's sloppy and shifty, and it's not staying in contact with your body, well, then what happens to all the excess weight of that blanket dimensionally wise, that's not touching you. So it really had to be like concentrated, just like dish soap. It needed to be  “two drops is equal to one cup,” it had to be more touchpoints. Because what did touch your body, what did conform to your body, it stayed in contact with that nerve. And then the excess weight is just there, it's probably laying on your bed, or it's laying on the couch or wherever you're using the product.

Robyn: It's just unbelievably mind blowing to me. Like even as I sit here and watch you just talk and talk and all the excitement, like you are a mom. Who liked to sew? Then you learn and I know you did this even before, you know, creating Capeable, but you know, then you went and researched Polyvagal Theory and the neural sequential model. And you learned about sensory processing and learn about– and it's just, and then you put that all together. And maybe that's why you and I get on so well. Is we're good at taking all these pieces of information from lots of different places and like distilling it down and creating like this one thing.

Marna: One simple easy thing, why? Because why everything is so hard. I mean, it really is. And so, to me, it came down to if it's not easy to care, easy to wear, easy to use, then I don't have time for it. And really, ultimately, I wanted to take that 10 to 15% body weight formula. So if you're 200-pounds, and you should get a 20 to 25-pound blanket, which ultimately was too unsafe, oftentimes are too heavy for that person. So then I was like, Okay, well, first of all, I'm not great with numbers, so I don't want to do the math. And I'm like, okay, so how do we how do we make something really practical? So my goal in life, because I do have ADHD, okay, is to take complicated and make it easy or practical. And so the practicality of this product was that number one, it had to work and two, machine wash tumble dry. I know that sounds so funny, but my daughter goobers, I goober. I mean, we had to wash, it also had to be something that was practical throughout the day. And that was the difference with creating the cape. Because sleep. Weighted blankets for night are great for sleep all night long. But unless you're going to be someone who's carrying your weighted blanket around the rest of your life, you really need something that is wearable, something throughout the day that's something that you can just put on and not even think about it. So the practicality of that was, okay, what are some of the wearables that could be used like at the office, commuting, stressful upright positions, taking test at school, at your desk, whatever that is, it needed to be something that you can practically use. But then here's the other component. How do you make weighted products stylish? Like how? And I do like things that blend in but are stylish or fun, or what I call like the spot of happy, which is the color, you know, there's a pop of color, there's a pop of happy and I do love designing even my own home it's, you know, I'm not HGTV, but I certainly like to pretend I am. [laughter] So then it was like, okay, can it kind of match the decor a little bit? Okay, I don't want this institutional, ugly-looking product. And I put it on my bed and it doesn't look cute in my bedroom or on the couch when I'm you know, we're Netflix-ing. Wait, what is that it, Netflix? And so it just had to be designed in a nice way. But then when you're wearing it, too, you don't want it to look like. hey, you know, neon lights. Look at me, look at me. I'm special. I'm different. I've got I've got something different about me that that's that to the general society says, well, that's not enough, or you're this or you're that, and I didn't want that to happen, either. So.

Robyn: As they listen to you talk about all these pieces. What's coming up for me is this truth that you created something that I think helps people feel really seen, like you see them. Right, that you're, you know, you're in business and part of being in business in the United States of America is that you need to make a profit. But you're that's not exactly your goal. You created this product that you wanted to help make people's lives easier. But then you thought about the things that so many people– and there's a lot of reasons why people don't think about the stuff and some of it is that it costs a lot of money guys to think about all this kind of stuff. Yeah. But I hear you, you know, with this mom hat of, like, I wanted my kid and my family to feel like we got nice things too!

Marna: Yes. Oh, my goodness. And how many of us with families with, you know, children from heart– there's a lot of destroying, there's a lot of things that don't stay nice, so not only did it need to look appealing and stylish, I don't know if I can say fashionable, but okay, maybe a little. But then it had to have the wearability like the throw-ability. It just had to be practical.

Robyn: And when we pee on it, and poop on it, and barf on it, and all the things. I mean, those things are happening in my office.So I needed also things in my office, I could take home and easily toss it in the washing machine and toss in the dryer quickly because I needed to take it back to the office the next day. So if I needed that in my office that obviously you needed in your home.

Marna: Okay, so what's so crazy about that, too, is Millie has a cleft lip and cleft palate. And so medically, I knew we were walking into medical places, if you will. And I remember going, okay, okay, we've got the soft, plush, yummy, and it's great machine wash, tumble dry. But there's no way that's going to walk into some of these other places, medically. I knew that occupational therapists and counselors and therapists were loving the product, and they could take it home, they could wash it, and that was really great. But I'm like, okay, we need to take the SmartWeight-Technology, which is the three C's of deep touch pressure. And we've got to put that in a fabrication that's medical grade. And will pass infectious control disease, and it can be used in the hospitals as well. So we have what we call capable weighted products. And we have capable care, medical grade weighted products. And the joy of that really the just the confirmation of all the hard work is that several hospitals have been doing controlled IRB studies with our product, in oncology, in mental health, in ICU. Also, in pre-surgery, and them using the medical grade blankets and other products have been shown to lower that anxiety. And I just think of the greats that I had to research, that that knowledge that they shared with me through writing, and books, and all of that, to be able to create something like this, to help not only families just like me, children and adults like Mellie, who's 17 now. That this could be a product that really did deliver what it should do. And really honestly, it's current to neuroscience and the neurobiology of us we know that we we all have nervous systems. Then the other thing too, that I get really passionate about, and the main reason is because I'm horrible at it myself, which is self compassion and also self care. I mean, we are putting ourselves as therapists and as moms and families and of children from heart, we are constantly, constantly pouring in trying to fix, trying to help, trying to do be all the things, and for my husband and I we are worn, we are weary, we're tired, we're committed, but at the same time, we needed something for ourselves as well. And I sleep with my full weighted blanket every single night because I'm a side sleeper and I like to be fully embraced by it. And even though it doesn't– it's not a miracle where it changes my entire life. If I'm gonna get two hours sleep, at least get the best two hours of sleep under my blanket. And I remember a customer coming up to me say, you told me that this product wasn't a miracle. But it sure does feel like it to our family. And I thought this is what makes everything worth it. And honestly, my husband always jokes with, “You would give everything away Marna all the time.” 

Robyn: And that's true, I watched try, I watched you try!

Marna: That is true. And I'm like, it is true because I want this to truly, truly, truly help people. And then I want it to be smart for people. I know it sounds corny. I always was the learning-disabled child. I always struggled in school, everything came so hard for me. And so I really wanted something I wanted to feel smart. So that is why we call it SmartWeight-Technology. Smartphones, smart weight, it had to be smart. [laughter] But really, it's more than that. It was just born out of a good research. I often say that I'm not a rocket scientist. I just paid attention to the details. But that's usually what moms are doing. Anyway, we're in the details. We're in the muck, we're doing all the things. And I just really wanted to give something back if I could.

Robyn: Well, what you have created. I think right now you're underselling yourself just a little bit, like you took really dense science and turned it into something that is practically useful and capable.

Marna: I love that capable word!

Robyn: In everybody's home!

Marna: Yeah. Yeah, it's been probably one of the most proudest things for myself, which is a little hard to say, but I'm really, really grateful for it. And I also realized that it’s  okay to be kind to myself as well in that and recognize that. So yeah.

Robyn: So we have a lot of Capeable products at my house. So when I first met you, I came home with a ton of them. And my son sleeps with his weighted blanket every day. And you know that Ed uses his weighted blanket so often. And Ed's been on the podcast and we've talked a bit about kind of what's going on for him and his struggles, you know, with his chronic Lyme and you know, that blanket came with him through so many of his treatments. And then is I mean, it really is– like he takes it with him to his treatments.. Something that is so soothing for him. It's just a miracle. Yeah, it really is. It really is. And you know, I have, I have not the cape, the like a wrap. The wrap. But also we have the belt!

Marna: Yes. The scarf. 

Robyn: Yeah, well, the scarf, but no not-.

Marna: Belt, belts. Yes. Yes. Yes!

Robyn: You told me to like tie it around my hips. And I was like, “Marna. Why”? But it is like just a perfect little extra amount of it's like, what it feels like to have like a baby on your hip. I mean, it's not that heavy, right. But that sensation, right there on your hip bones. And I was so surprised. like, Ah, this is nice. And then in January when my dad had open heart surgery. And I texted you and I said, Tell me what to buy my dad! And it was perfect for him because he had to sleep in a recliner for a long time. And you were so smart. Of course you know these things where I never would, you know, that a blanket would just be too big for a recliner, or too wide. And so he has one that's like a blanket but perfect for his recliner.

Marna: The embrace wrap!. Which is that hybrid of a blanket and wrap. Yeah. It's like the best hug ever! It's not super wide. But it is long. Yes. So it doesn't get in the way of the sides of the recliner, especially being in a recliner that whole time that he would have to be.

Robyn: And my dad is really tall. He has really long legs. But yeah, so not have all the extra bulk in the recliner was really nice. And then we also got him a wrap as well. And that really helped. He was so ache-y and so uncomfortable. So we got those when we are still in the hospital with him and then took it home and I remember hauling mine up. And actually my son was like, “Um you can't take mine. I can’t sleep without it.” Okay, okay. I will not take it to your grandpa in the hospital, who  just that open heart surgery! [laughter] But sure! Fair enough. It was very much within his right to say you're not taking my blanket. So, you know, when I was practicing as a therapist, I used to keep weighted blankets in my office, because they are a huge investment for families. And I wanted kids and their parents to kind of experiment with them. And the first time I heard you say, that part where you put it over your arm or over your leg, and all the weight just plops to the side and I'm like, oh, you're totally right. And the difference in how these products, whether it's the blanket, or the wrap, or the cape, you know, doesn't shift around like that. And really, like you said, stays in contact in a way. That you just– so again, it's like you didn't just learn the science, and get be smart enough to be like, “oh, this makes scientific sense. I'm going to do it this way.” You learned the science and then, like, poured your just whole heart into it, you know, like, how can I make something that really helps kids and families?

Marna: Exactly. And the entire family, the parents, you know, because it did start out as a weighted cape for Millie. And it was a sweet little pink cape. And we do have the capes. But the way that I like to break it up, just so that it makes sense is, if you want a weighted blanket for sleep all night long, then that should be staying on your bed as much as possible, then you can have weighted wearables for on the move.If you're going out and about, you're sitting in an upright position, well, that weight still needed to stay in contact with more nerves, still needed that distribution of weight. And then there was focus tools, which is our magnetic Focus Fidget, which is actually loved by everyone. It's one of our most popular items. And it's non-weighted, but it was also using the magnetic attraction and resistance with the fingers. And just really the soft texture for that tactile input as well. And then it was really creating products that were practical to use throughout the day, to use at nighttime, but still staying with the science of what truly is deep touch pressure. And then the practicality, I jokingly say, “we're easy to use, easy to wear, easy to care.” And I know it sounds cheesy, but it was something fast enough to say that you don't have to think so hard about it. So a lot of people will ask us, Well, if you're not doing the 10 to 15% body weight, then how do you know what to get? How do you find your weighted product? Like what is that weight that it should be? And I say, well, we kind of did that work for you. So what we found out is that if you have more nerve touch where that even distribution of weight every two inches, then we can use less weight versus more weight for more safe and effective weighted product. And then it allows for that freedom of movement, so you do not feel restrained or restricted. So with the way the weight goes, we don't want to go heavy, heavy, heavy, let's more weight, more weight. It's kind of like a handshake. If I shake your hand, and it's so hard you literally release and you go ouch. Or you get that jelly handshake and it's like floppy and you're like, eeew, but it's just that right firm shake. That is just it feels confident feels comfortable. It feels easy. So I say we're the Goldilocks of weighted products. We're not too heavy, we're not too light. And so what I found out is more nerves activated, like a blanket covering you from the neck down, we could use less weight per square inch every two inches. But if it's a smaller dimensional product, then we want to kind of tap into that nerve a little bit more. So smaller products create more pressure per every two inches. Now we don't highlight that on our website. We've just kind of already done the work for you. So I will tell people, what products are you wanting to look at? Are you needing some help for sleep all night long? Are you needing some anxiousness and stress relieving items, you know, sitting throughout the day in an upright position, or you needing something for focus, and calm. Whether you're focusing on something, whatever that is, then you can look at some of the sensory enrichment tools that we have with which is definitely the magnetic Focus Fidget. So with this blankets, we have four different sizes, and it's about your mattress top, it is not about the total weight of the product, because I've never met yet a human being the exact same dimensions of our blankets. And so if you sleep on a twin size mattress, you can get anything from a twin, to the couch throw, to the small blanket, depending on the age of the person or how they want to use it. And so we don't make king size, we don't make queen size. Our biggest is the full because we we recommend that for blankets at night you don't share your weighted products, you really want to have it conformed to you compress and stay in constant contact. Then throughout the day for products that you can use, we have capes, we have vests, we have scarves. And then we have two different wrap styles. And then for the sensory focus, we have the magnet Focus Fidget and lap pads that come in three different sizes. Our lap pads are a little bit unique because we call it a lap pad. But we put magnets in the four corners. So it can be worn around the neck like a scarf. It's just a different application versus maybe a long scarf.

Robyn: So much goodness. Yes.

Marna: Oh, I love goodness. I love yummy, fun things, delightful things. And yeah!

Robyn: It really is just a true joy and delight to watch you talk about it. I mean the same way– It's so funny that that was what you remember at the very beginning of our conversation because I have such a clear memory. Again, you were just I didn't know who you were, you're selling something. I don't know. It was just, you know, and then I stood and watched it. I was like, “Oh my gosh, like, this woman is amazing.” And I have never seen anybody love their product and their people. I mean, the people that the product is helping, like that was so– And I just I love to know those people. I mean, there aren't a lot of us out there who love this group of people, so I think it's really easy to be overwhelmed, by these families and their needs, and to go do different kinds of work.

Marna: Right? Right, we all have our talents that we can bring to the table. And of course, I always wanted to be, you know, smart and an OT or something that was, you know, professionally that way, or therapist. So I find it fascinating that because of my daughter and what she has done to change my own life and all the different things that have been so amazing that way. Omits the beautiful in the hard. And the messy, yes, the messy, there is messy! And be able to contribute something to the world and really offer something that is actually, what you said earlier, which is you are seen, and you're not alone. And I do understand what that looks like and what that feels like every single day. I am that mom. We are that family. And I just love people and I do want to help, I really do, really want to help.

Robyn: Where can people go find blankets, capes, all the goodies?!

Marna: All the goodies. So we have a website and it is capeable.com. Of course we spell it wrong. So C A P E A B L E.com. And you'll see myself and my daughter on the homepage, which is– she was so not into that picture you can like recognize it, you could tell it was like the end of the picture. And she's like, I'm over this, even though she is mostly nonspeaking, nonverbal, we use it on her. [chuckles] I don't know what I would do without the product for myself, I just have to say that I mean, we use it, all of us use it. ourselves. So selfishly, I'm just grateful, I can pull it off the shelf and use it. [laughs] And then our manufacturer is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And we do have a showroom, a retail store, if you will, it's not tech– you know, it's not ‘retail’ retail. But people can come in, they can experience the product and they can try it out. And anyone can reach out to me and write me at marna@capeable I can answer any questions, I let people text and call or email me. I'm really truly happy to help and communicate with the customer. Because we all have different needs. And sometimes we just have to cry together, laugh together and relate to each other because of the things that we encounter in our families everyday.

Robyn: Well I can just add the testament to that, like anybody who isn't sure who wants to maybe try something but isn't sure, just reach out because even when, you know, I was wanting to get something from my dad and I messaged you just expecting a real fast answer. But you had like 1 million questions. [laughter]

Marna: I always ask what is your need? You know, and sometimes you don't know what your need is. But if someone were to ask me, What is your need? And I would say I need you to come into my home and help me or I need this, or this, and it is hard to express our need. So it's easy for me to ask what that need is, but I do start with that question. What is your need? Is it sleep? Is it day? Is it focus? What is it and then just direct the products to go that way.

Robyn: Thank you!

Marna: Thank you for having me. More than this. Thank you for feeding me. Ed made an amazing dinner. And then prior to that, you gave this wonderfull. Wait, I'm gonna totally butcher it, charcuterie board? Yeah, it was just like phenomenal. Yes, everything, yummy. Food makes everything better.

Robyn: I said, Do you want to record a podcast? And he said, Well, yes, of course. And I said, well, because you're involved in an organization that's not too far from here. And so I was like, any chance you're gonna be in town for this organization? Because we could do it live and you're like, “No, but I'll just come.” Well, let's do it! We're just had the loveliest day. And as we're starting to wind down and it is starting to get a little chilly out here.

Marna: I wonder if they can hear the birds. They can't hear the sunset, BUT the birds! 

Robyn: Birds are getting ready for a bed.

Marna: Love it. It's really beautiful. Yeah!

Robyn: We've had a great day. Thank you for coming and for being such a great friend.

Marna: Ditto. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

Robyn: All right, everybody. You're gonna want to go check out Capeable.com. See Capeable.com. Thanks, Marna!

Marna: Thank you.