Help for Sensory and Emotional Challenges with Jessica Sinarski {EP 93}


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This week’s podcast guest is Jessica Sinarski- a highly sought-after therapist, speaker, and change-maker. Extensive post-graduate training and 15+ years as a clinician and educator led her to create the resource and training platform–BraveBrains. She makes brain science practical, helping parents and professionals become healers for hurting children. She is the author of the award-winning Riley the Brave series, Hello, Anger, and more.  

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Empowering with Brain Science

Jessica is a fierce advocate for both children and the grownups who are striving to support them. She believes that the more we know about our bodies and brains, the better we can navigate relationships, mental health, communication, work, life, and more. 

In her work, Jessica emphasizes supporting and equipping adults who are parenting, teaching or working with kids in the aftermath of trauma while creating resources that are not only kid-friendly but allow children to feel seen. 

Riley the Brave’s Sensational Sensations

In her Riley the Brave series, Jessica honors the brave survival parts of children while also honoring the tremendous courage that it takes for kids to find new ways to be brave and new ways to relate. 

In the newest book in the series, Riley’s next adventure is all about his Sensational Senses. In this book, Jessica helps children and caregivers understand sensory processing. Through Riley’s experiences, Jessica expertly demonstrates in kid-friendly language what our senses are, what it feels like when we have sensory challenges, and shows readers with sensory processing differences that they aren’t alone. 

Being curious together with your child about their sensory experience, allows kids to take some ownership and gain some of that self reflective ability that we so desperately want, especially for brains that have been impacted by trauma. 

Riley’s story teaches parents and kids to be curious about their sensory experiences, rather than blaming, shaming, or pathologizing the behaviors that often arise from sensory overwhelm, and of course, teaches some strategies for emotion regulation. 

Some of the tips she shared in this interview include: 

  • Learn about the senses with your child and give language to their sensory experience
  • Accept and normalize your child’s unique experience of the sensory world
  • Be curious together with your child to gain insight about their specific sensory needs
  • Help your child explore what their body needs to feel ok

Get More of Jessica

Riley the Brave’s Sensational Senses will be released on (update) October 6th, 2022. You can preorder the book now through October 5th and receive special bonuses at www.rileythebrave.org/senses. You can learn more about Jessica’s work at www.bravebrains.com

Jessica’s training for professionals: https://bravebrains.com/moving-beyond-trauma-informed/

To hear some of the ways her new book empowers children and caregivers, listen to the episode or read the transcript.

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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But- have you grieved? {BONUS}


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***this post originally went out as an email to everyone on my email list on 09/08/2022. I had such an overwhelming response (and I’m sorry if you sent me an email and I haven’t replied yet!) that I wanted it to reach as many people as possible.  So I’m posting it here and on my podcast, as well***

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The other day I was connecting with a dear, trusted confidante about some hard things that are happening in my life.

She asked if I was being compassionate or critical toward myself.

It was easy to answer.  I’ve got a pretty strong self-compassion muscle (but I promise you I haven’t always!  I’ve really worked it hard over the past many years).

So- mostly I’m being pretty compassionate toward myself.

Then she asked “but have you grieved.”

Oof.

OOF.

Darn.  Even though we long for it, sometimes it’s so hard to be so seen.  To have someone so quickly get right to the heart of it.

No. No I have not, thank you very much.  

This morning as I was putzing around the dark kitchen waiting for my first cup of coffee I thought to myself “Why not? What’s the risk in grieving this hard thing?”

Which- mind you- I’ve asked myself approximately 6839 times before.

But I actually heard an answer this time.

If I grieve, I’m acknowledging this thing I’m grieving is actually real and it’s probably not going to change.

To grieve means I have to be honest about what’s happening.

That feels very ‘endgame’ to me.  And to be honest, I’m not that impressed with this particular storyline.

So I continue to rage against it.  I continue to hope that was is true isn’t true.  

And I’m constantly setting myself up for disappointment (this always happens when I hope reality isn’t real).

And then I rage against reality not being what I want it to be.

But, have you grieved?

Sometimes I want to shout “TELL ME HOW!!!!  IF YOU SHOW MY HOW I WILL DO IT AND I WILL GET AN A+ AT IT!!!!”

OK let’s be honest.  I actually have shouted that.  As if it’s a well-kept secret that no one is willing to share with me for the explicit purpose of taunting me and preventing me for getting that A+.

Here’s the thing.

I know how to grieve.  And I have to trust that my inner world is touching into the grief in exactly the pace that is right.

I’m titrating the grief.  

Slowly.  Like…very slowly.

When my system believes I can I acknowledge reality and grieve it, I will.

When I can feel safe inside the loss of control, I’ll grieve.  The not-ever-real-anyway control that somehow I have the power to make life go exactly the way I want it to.  

Yesterday I was chatting with the person who is writing the forward for my book (I’ll tell you as soon as I can who that person is!!!) and this person said they were so grateful to read all the times I return to grief.  I remind the reader that grief makes sense. That some of the things they encounter with their kids is just really crummy and sad and overwhelming and not fixable.  And worthy of grief.

When you love someone who struggles, there is grief.  A lot of it.  

I think I need to re-read my own book.

There is so much grief in loving someone who struggles.  Someone who has a vulnerable nervous system.  Someone who has baffling behaviors.  

Grief for them and grief for ourselves.

So, dear reader– have you grieved?

I’m going to spend the next week being curious about my body’s belief that I can’t handle the grief.

Because I think the truth is that I can handle the grief.  I think the story that I can’t handle the grief is a trickster story.  It’s trying soooo hard to keep me safe, but with my owl brain I can see that I can handle the grief.  

I can release my strong-hold on the reality I’m hoping for and instead be brave enough to embrace that reality that I have.  

I wonder how much beauty and gorgeousness I’m missing by insisting that THIS reality isn’t the one I want?

This was a long email.  That’s for witnessing my rambling thoughts.  I didn’t know exactly what I was gonna write after the subject line.

Thank you for seeing me.  I hope you also feel seen by me.

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Trauma, Memory, & Behavior: Part 2 {EP 91}


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Last week, we explored the different components of memory, how traumatic experiences can impact memory processing, and then, how the impact of memory processing can lead to some baffling behaviors. In this week’s episode, we are going to dive deeper into understanding a specific type of implicit memory called Mental Models.

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Implicit Memory 

You may remember that implicit memories are those unconscious memories that we don’t notice or think about. These can be the sensory data that doesn’t get integrated due to a traumatic event, memories from before around age 3, or rote or procedural memories, such as how to brush our teeth. We certainly aren’t having the feeling of remembering when our implicit memory is activated and online.

The vast majority of lives are done out of implicit memory, despite us not being aware of it. The purpose of memory is to help us predict what is going to happen next. 

Mental Models

A Mental Model is a specific kind of implicit memory that creates generalizations about how we expect the world to work, including relationships, and even our general sense of how safe or not the world is.

We develop Mental Models from having repeated experiences.

For example, I have a Mental Model that restaurant servers are hardworking people who want me to have a good time and want to take good care of me. So, I will interpret my experience at a restaurant through the lens of that Mental Model. It impacts how I treat them, as well as how I interpret how they are treating me — all without me consciously thinking about this mental model I have about service professionals. So when service is slow, I’m assuming people are doing the best that they can. If a service professional is rude, I assume that they’re just having a bad day. And because of my mental model, I’m more likely to respond with compassion and kindness.

Mental Models Develop Inside Relationship

Our Mental Models about ourselves, what we can expect in our relationships, and our sense of safety in the world are, generally speaking, developed inside the attachment experiences and relational experiences that kids have with their grownups or their caregivers, specifically, in that first year of life.

Mental Models Impact Behavior

There are many reasons a child may have experienced challenges in the first year of life that caused them to develop Mental Models that are impacting the big behaviors you now see. Some examples include early abuse and neglect, a chaotic environment, neurodivergence, sensitive sensory system, vulnerable nervous system, or a neuroimmune condition.

Last year, I did a series on Attachment in which I talked a lot about the different Mental Models that are developed when babies have experiences of secure, anxious, avoidant, or disorganized attachment. You can find that series HERE, and the beautiful accompanying ebook HERE.

Am I Safe, Seen, Soothed, and Secure?

When babies have enough experiences of feeling safe, seen, soothed and secure (Bryson and Siegel), they develop Mental Models that sound like the following:  

  • People are good, and they’ll take care of me.
  • I’m a good baby, and I’m worthy of being taken good care of. 
  • I am not bad when I’m in distress. 
  • I can be in distress, and I can vocalize that distress. But that doesn’t mean I’m a bad baby.
  • The world is not perfect, but generally a safe and predictable place. 
  • When things aren’t going well, or I don’t feel safe, there are people out there who will soothe me and protect me and take care of me. 

When babies don’t have enough experiences of feeling  safe, seen, soothed and secure, they develop Mental Models that sound like the following: 

  • People are unpredictable–sometimes they take care of me and sometimes they don’t. I have no idea what to expect. 
  • When I’m in distress, it’s because I’m bad. 
  • The world is not generally a safe or predictable place, so I have to be in charge of my own safety.. 
  • People are mean and they hurt me, even when I’m already in pain.

Can We Change Mental Models?

The way we change Mental Models is the way Mental Models are created in the first place: we have a lot of experiences.

If a child has a Mental Model that their caregiver is unpredictable and unreliable, they need lots of experiences of predictability and reliability.

Mental Models are very tricky to change, can take a very long time, and tend to re-emerge during times of great vulnerability and stress. But they are not impossible to change! Sometimes lots of change is happening even before we see a behavioral shift, and sometimes all we can hope for is that enough regulation and resiliency has developed in their nervous systems that our children can notice when an old Mental Model has taken over.

If we can understand what some of the Mental Models are that are driving our kids’ big, baffling behaviors, that can regulate us.

Brainstorming what our kids’ Mental Models are can give us ideas about how to help them. 

Discovering Mental Models

  • Think about your child’s earliest experiences, and make some guesses about what they learned about the world, themselves and relationships. 
  • How does that help me understand or interpret their behavior in or in a different or new way? 
  • How can I use that knowledge to stay more compassionate and boundaried in how I respond to that child? 
  • Is there a way I can respond to their behavior that changes their belief about themself, relationships, and their sense of safety in the world?

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

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Trauma, Memory, & Behavior: Part 1 {EP 90}


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You know trauma impacts behavior, but there’s a fascinating link between trauma and memory that will give you an even greater understanding of what’s shaping your child’s confusing behaviors. I created a video series and ebook containing helpful graphics about this. You can access those HERE.

Continuing Reading or Listen on the Podcast

Three Components of Memory Processing

There is a complex process of:

Encoding: Having an experience that activates a neural pattern

Storage: The likelihood that the neural pattern could be activated again in the future

Retrieval: Activation of a neural pattern that is SIMILAR but not identical to the neural pattern activated in the past

Something that happened in the past helps create my experience in the now and then impacts how I’m going to behave in the future. 

When we have an experience, there is a firing of a specific neural pattern in the brain. The same neural pattern never fires again twice but SIMILAR neural patterns are fired for similar experiences. 

Implicit and Explicit Memory

The brain is encoding 11 million bits of information in every moment! Of those 11 million bits, we are only consciously aware of between 6 and 50!!! 6-50 versus 11 million!!! That ratio is hard to comprehend!

Those bits of data that are outside our conscious awareness make up implicit memory (feelings, sensations, behavioral impulses, perceptions), and those that are within our conscious awareness make up explicit memory (knowledge and facts, the felt-sense of remembering, has a timestamp). All of these bits of information come together to form a neural pattern or “memory ball” (metaphor from Inside Out movie). Not every experience makes it into long term storage with the ability to retrieve-that would be debilitating!

Linking It All Together (or not!)

A part of the brain called the hippocampus connects implicit and explicit data to form a memory with a timestamp that gives you the felt-sense that it is something that happened in the past.

A memory network is awoken when something happens in the now that is similar to something that happened in the past. When implicit data from the past gets awakened in the now, we know that it’s from the past because it’s connected to some explicit data in the memory network. It FEELS like the past. But implicit and explicit data don’t always get connected…

Trauma Creates a Disruption in Memory Networks

During a traumatic experience, the hippocampus gets turned off to help us react quickly and survive. The hippocampus is involved in helping the implicit and explicit data find each other in a memory network, so after a traumatic experience there is a chance that those pieces of data don’t find each other.

When implicit data from a traumatic memory in the PAST (hunger, pain, loneliness) wasn’t integrated and is later activated by a similar experience in the present, the brain believes what is happening NOW is dangerous. This, of course, evokes behaviors that look like an overreaction (tantrum, lying, aggression, control, etc.) but are actually responses to life-threatening sensations from the past. 

All Behavior Makes Sense

Understanding that these behaviors are the perfect sized reaction to a brain that believes what happened in the past is happening now helps parents stay more regulated and respond to the real problem: the terror that was awakened from the past. “Ugh, it’s so hard to wait five more minutes for dinner. It feels like you’ll never eat again and that is terrifying.”

Changing How We See Our Kids Changes Our Kids

When we see our kids as humans doing the best they can in the moment and having a reaction that makes perfect sense based on what’s happening in their neurobiology, we stay more regulated. Then we are more likely to respond with compassion, empathy, and boundaries. Our children begin to see themselves the same way- as humans who are struggling, who are sometimes swept away with emotion, and that their behaviors don’t mean they are a bad person, just a struggling person.

When our kids believe they are struggling kids and not bad kids, their behaviors start to change to match their beliefs. This is exactly what we want.

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

eBook Download- F R E E

This podcast is based on a previous video series and ebook I created. Access the video series and ebook HERE.

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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Impossible {EP 89}


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Laura Strohm, LCSW is a therapist, colleague and dear friend. If you are in The Club or Being With, you already know Laura is my right hand everything. She plays a big role in The Club, an online community for parents of children with big, baffling behaviors, and is the lead small group coach in Being With, an immersive training for therapists based in the science of relationship.

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Last month, Laura made a post in The Club forum. It was so profound, I asked if she would come on the podcast and talk about it. Her post was about impossible questions, impossible situations, and impossible decisions. You know, the kind of decisions and circumstances that those of you who are parenting kids with histories of trauma, kids with big, baffling behaviors, kids with vulnerable nervous systems, are facing constantly. Laura’s words resonated so deeply for me and also for everybody in The Club, I really wanted to share this with as many humans as possible. 

Here are her words:

Impossible questions. 
Impossible situations. 
Impossible decisions. 

Sometimes I sit and think about The Club and this Forum and am overwhelmed simultaneously by gratitude and grief. One of the very special things about The Club, is that is creates a space for persons to come together who can connect over uniquely intense experiences that occur in their everyday life. 

One of these experiences is how often everyone here is faced with these utterly impossible questions, situations, and decisions. The ones that feel like no matter what you do or say it will be full of burden. 

These are experiences, everyone MAY encounter at SOME point in their lives. However… here…. we are much more likely to encounter them. Maybe even on the regular.

An example would be: having to put your loved one in a hospital or facility because they were in imminent threat of harm. You know this is what had to be done to keep them safe since your job is to keep them safe…. Yet… they may not see it that way. No matter how much you explain. So you are met with anger and threats of what they will do if you don’t take them out… how much they hate you or say you hate them…. or… the pleading… The pleading to PLEASE let them go home. The promises of how they have changed, everything has changed, if only you would give them a chance. 

All aspects of this scenario are heart wrenching and so incredibly more complex than it seems. I’m sure I don’t have to list all the reasons why out to you. And so many other examples that could go here.

Impossible questions. 
Impossible situations. 
Impossible decisions. 

And you may be alone in facing these impossibilities day to day…

But… you also aren’t….

I have no tips, suggestions, or answers for these impossibilities, but what I have come to say, with great gratitude and also grief, is one of the things that makes The Club SO special and unique, is that you are not alone.

None of us can solve your crisis in the moment, but it is without a doubt that we can all share in the understanding of what it feels like to be faced with Impossible questions. Impossible situations. Impossible decisions. Even if we don’t have the energy to post about it that day, or ever, you can hold the thought and connection in your mind. A lot like I did while wanting to make this post but not sure when or if I ever would.

In here, we all face the impossibility of each day together, and (maybe worn down and wore out) we survive each day of impossibility together. Each of these days inches, impossibility, slowly forward toward, possibility. It’s still not fun, it still hurts, but we make it through what we thought was impossible. 

This unspoken (in the moment) connection brought me a bit of solace, in an otherwise heart wrenching experience, during one of these impossible moments, and my hope is, it will do that for you too.

Grief and Gratitude

My conversation with Laura led to a profound and vulnerable discussion of what it really feels like to be in these impossible moments and how being connected to others who really get it, can anchor us back into wholeness, back into felt-safety, back into connection to self. From there we are able to access regulated grief and even a bit of spaciousness, acceptance, and gratitude.

To hear the conversation, head over to the Parenting After Trauma Podcast with Robyn Gobbel.

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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Creating Brave Spaces with Selma Bacevac {EP 87}


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Selma Bacevac is a psychotherapist, author, and coach who specializes in helping Balkan women and parents heal from trauma and anxiety.  Selma has expertise in attachment and parent-child relationships.  We met due to our previous shared interest in working with adoptive families. In the past couple years, Selma has followed her passion to focus on serving Balkan families.  

Selma’s family fled Bosnia due to war and ethnic genocide during the early 1990s.  She now lives and practices in Florida. Prior to his death in the summer of 2020, Selma’s father inspired her to take her focus on attachment and the parent/child relationship and bring those ideas to Balkan families.  

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Brave Space

Selma emphasizes developing brave spaces with her clients.  Beyond safety, brave spaces are spaces in relationship where we can welcome difference and connection at the same time.  In the parent/child relationship, a brave space invites the child to have their own voice.

Brave spaces recognize that we are all searching for the same thing: to be seen and to experience connection.  Brave spaces can still be scary, but bravery invites presence. Selma works with parents to create and step into these brave spaces with their children, but also with their own parents.  

It’s not individuals who need to be fixed- it’s the relationship.

Relational ruptures can invite strength after repair, both in the relationship, and in the brain.

Adem and the Magic Fenjer

Selma was inspired to write her children’s book, Adem and the Magic Fenjer, when looking for ways to help her son understand their family’s history.  Selma was six years-old when the war broke out in Bosnia and Herzegovina.  She lived through the siege of Sarajevo and escaped through the Tunnel of Hope when she was nine years-old.  

Selma reflected on how the book has created the opportunity for not just the son to know her family’s story, but for every reader to get to know her family’s story. 

Adem and the Magic Fenjer is a children’s book especially for the families who became refugees in the Bosnian war but will resonate with any family who has experienced war, displacement, and living in the diaspora.  

Seeing Refugees

Selma emphasized that there are a lot of refugees in the world- 64 million!  Refugees have had their mental health impacted due to living in constant survival mode. Their needs are important and deserve to be seen and met. Refugees are highlighted in the immediacy of a war, but then are quickly forgotten about. Selma is passionate about helping the world maintain a focus on the needs of refugees.

Wars breakout because we don’t feel safe.  We can bring safety to the world by strengthening parent/child relationships.  

Connect more with Selma

https://www.balkanmamatherapy.com/

Selma has an amazing Instagram Account.  Follow it! https://www.instagram.com/balkanmamatherapy/

Adem and Magic Fenjer

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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When Your Child Doesn’t Participate in Therapy {EP 86}


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I know it feels very frustrating when you find a therapist, arrange your schedule, and find a way to pay for therapy only for your child to not participate. Often parents ask me how to get their child to participate or what to do if their child won’t participate.  

Here for the infographic? Scroll down!

But actually what we really need to talk about is what does it look like to participate- or not- in therapy.  Especially as a child.

Here’s some of the behaviors that I’ve seen that adults label as ‘not participating in therapy.’

  • Not talking
  • Talking about ‘unrelated’ topics
  • Only playing
  • Playing in a way that isn’t obviously therapeutic
  • No obvious changes happening in or outside the therapy room

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What Therapy Really Is

It isn’t the child’s job to behave in a way that the adults would label participating- or not- in therapy.  It’s the therapist’s job to continually come back to safety as the treatment.  

Your child’s nervous system is longing to rest into safety and connection. 

Talking about, or playing out themes, that are clearly related to the reason the child is in therapy is such a very small component of what therapy actually is.

Therapy is about learning to trust safety.  Therapy is about learning to trust relationship.  

Therapy is about learning to trust that there is nothing wrong with you.

Therapy is in the moment that the therapist first lays eyes on their client in the waiting room and the client sees how happy the therapist is to see them.

Therapy is the bravery of a client who walks through that door week after week after week.

Therapy is experiencing new rhythms in relationship by playing balloon volleyball.

Therapy is learning to tolerate the closeness of relationship while playing a years worth of Uno.

Therapy is having a deep relationship with someone who has no agenda- no expectation that I show up in a certain way or change.

Therapy happens in tiny moments of being with, built up over time, at exactly the right pace for your child.

The Right Pace for Your Child

How do you know it’s the right pace?  It’s the pace your child has set.

If your child is refusing to talk about traumatic or hard content, it’s because they don’t have the safety in their nervous system to tolerate bringing those memories to mind.  The only person in charge of the pace of finding and creating safety in their nervous system is your child and it’s our job to believe that it is happening at the perfect pace.  

It is the therapist’s job to make sure they are approaching sessions from a space of nonjudgmental, agendaless presence.

It’s the therapist’s job to make sure they show up to sessions with their whole brain and whole body, offering the opportunity to co-create a WE.

It is not the therapist’s job to ensure that the client participates, acts a certain way, or even changes.

Listen to the podcast or read the full transcript below for a more in depth exploration of behaviors that look like non-participation. 

Download F R E E Infographic

I was shocked by the response to that podcast- therapists wanted to share it with their clients and supervisees and colleagues, and parents wanted to share it with their therapist or their parenting partner or anyone else who has an opinion on what kids should (or shouldn’t) be doing in therapy.
 
Luckily I have brilliantly talented friends and colleagues who make beautiful things so here you go. Here’s a one page infographic you can share with absolutely anybody you want to.
This JPG is great to save to your phone and share on social media. Just right click and save.

Download this PDF to print or share over email by CLICKING HERE.

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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Ableism, Parenting, and Trauma Informed Care {EP 85}


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Marshall Lyles is a therapist, author, poet, trainer, advocate, and thought-leader.  Mostly though, he is a dear friend. 

I asked Marshall to come on the podcast to talk about disability, ableism, and parenting kids with vulnerable nervous systems. 

I couldn’t possibly capture the beauty of my conversation with Marshall in a short summary.  This is an episode you absolutely want to listen to in order to get the full impact.  If you have barriers to listening to the podcast, scroll down to click and read the full transcript.  

Disability

I asked Marshall to get us started by defining disability.  

The unnecessary experience of isolation and struggle resulting from an uninspired world’s lack of empathic forethought. – Marshall Lyles

Marshall emphasized that a disability can be visible or invisible, and it can impact the body, mind or both.  

So many of the children I work with have what Eileen Devine calls a “brain-based disability with behavioral symptoms.”  

This brain-based disability could be due to trauma, a neuroimmune disorder, in-utero alcohol exposure, neurodivergence, or some other circumstance that has led to vulnerability in the nervous system.  

Impairment versus Disability

Are all impairments a disability?  For example- I am completely, 100% deaf in my right ear.  It’s an impairment for sure, but it has never felt like a disability.  When I asked Marshall about the difference between an impairment and a disability, he replied with “Is there a part of you that the world has not thought to welcome? Then that becomes a disability.”

He also emphasized that if the world was inclusive, most impairments would never move to the social category of being a disability. 

Ableism

Ableism is keeping the world most convenient for people whose bodies and minds operate like yours, fueled by the fear that your own body and mind will inevitably change in ways you like to pretend isn’t real. – Marshall Lyles

Let’s contextualize ableism when speaking specifically about kids with big, baffling behaviors with this question- in what ways do we as adults (in parenting, or in education, or in any system that involves children) work to make the world most convenient for ourselves, insisting on conformity to systems that were created by preferencing neurotypical nervous systems?

Ableism, for me, shows up when we ask the most vulnerable person in the room (the child with a vulnerable nervous system) to make the hardest adjustment and accommodations so that they can be OK inside a world and with expectations that weren’t created with them in mind.  

Ableism and Big, Baffling Behaviors

I’ve had to do a lot of soul-searching these past few years, looking inward and asking myself when my work as a therapist preferenced helping the adults, not the children, by trying to get the children to change.  

Even the movement away from behaviorism and toward co-regulation and nervous system health is, in many ways, still rooted in ableism.  In many ways, the focus on co-regulation has become another path toward getting someone to act the way we want them to.

I appreciated so much how Marshall clarified what true co-regulation is.  

Co-regulation is about asking ‘What do you need in this moment?’ not ‘How do I shape you into some preconceived socially accepted version of yourself?’ 

Trauma Informed Care and Ableism

Regrettably, in many systems, Trauma Informed Care has become about understanding and accommodating the impact of trauma so that people with a history of trauma will act like the people who don’t have trauma.

This paradigm- getting people with a history of trauma to act like people who don’t- forces us to overlook the brilliance of trauma adaptations.  A sensitized nervous system is a brilliant way for a nervous system to adapt to living in a world that is traumatic.  

I asked Marshall: “How do we get to the point where we can understand the impact of trauma and the brilliance of the adaptations that the nervous system has made, while also recognizing that those adaptations have come with great cost?”

We agreed that there is no answer to that question, but that isn’t an excuse to stop asking the question.  We need the humility and bravery to show up every day and ask that question even if there is never an answer.

What if, Marshall asked, we stopped focusing on the symptoms and instead focused on meeting the needs that were originally violated, neglected, or misused?

I wonder how we might change if we were willing to love the parts of people that kept them alive? – Marshall Lyles

Ableism and Advocacy

This podcast conversation was largely Marshall and me asking big, unanswerable questions.  When our kids are struggling, how do we know when we are supposed to simply offer co-regulation and presence through the struggle versus using our power as parents to lessen or change their struggle?

When our kids are struggling, whether that’s at home or at school, when is it time to step in and acknowledge that perhaps our kids are having a very reasonable reaction to being inside a system that has expectations for them that are absurd?  So often, the grown-ups in a system, just keep insisting “Sorry, this is the system!  Figure it out!”

When do we shift into advocacy? 

Honestly, I think the answer to this question is very uncomfortable for me because then I have to come face-to-face with all the times I’ve focused my energy on helping people cope with a system instead of using my energy to advocate for system change.  

I know that sometimes I parent out of ways that are making my life easier in the moment as opposed to staying focused on what my child needs to be his truest self, and to be seen as his truest self, in that moment. I’d like to think I don’t do that very often, but I probably do more often than I realize.  

What If Change Isn’t the Point?

Marshall and I wrapped up our conversation by asking what would happen if we stopped looking at the symptoms of PTSD as something that had to change.  What would be different if we stopped asking “How do we get rid of the symptoms of PTSD?”

We agreed that everything would be different.  And it would still be possible- even likely- that the PTSD symptoms would alleviate, bringing deserved relief to that individual.  

Connect more with Marshall

https://www.marshalllyles.com/

The Workshop (more than a training space for healers) https://therapistsworkshop.com/

Marshall’s Miniatures https://therapistsworkshop.com/collections

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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Focus on the Nervous System to Change Behavior {EP 84}


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Behavior is just what we see on the outside that tells us about what’s happening on the inside.

If we want to change behavior, we have to change what’s driving the behavior.

This approach to behavior change rests on the idea that regulated, connected kids who feel safe behave well.  If you’re curious about how I came to that conclusion, you can watch my free masterclass and download the free eBook on What Behavior Really Is.

How many times have you felt confused because of conflicting parenting advice?

Or how often has good parenting advice worked- but only some of the time?

That’s because parenting advice is aimed at stopping a behavior. But…

Behavior is Just the Symptom

When someone asks me how to stop lying, or stealing, or opposition, or aggression, or ignoring, or almost anything! I can’t even begin to answer until I understand the level of activation or energy coming from the nervous system that is driving the behavior.

There’s a lot of complex neuroscience we could turn to help us understand- and then change if needed- behavior things like polyvagal theory, affect regulation theory, and state dependent functioning theory.  If you want to dive deep into the science, the theories, the brain, and the nervous system, consider Being With, my year long immersion program for professionals.

But for today, we’re gonna skip the theories and just go right to the metaphor that over the years, hundreds of kids and their parents helped me develop.  

Keep Reading or Listen on the Podcast

Owls, Watchdogs, and Possums- OH MY!

There’s three different energy pathways in the brain. I call them the Owl Brain, the Watchdog Brain and the Possum Brain.

The Owl Brain

The wise Owl Brain is in charge when the brain and nervous system is feeling safe and open for connection.  

The kind of behavior that you’re hoping to see from your child- and yourself- comes from the owl brain.  You don’t need to stop behavior- you need to bring back the owl brain.

The Watchdog Brain

When the nervous system detects possible danger, it flips into protection mode and the watchdog brain emerges.  I turn to Dr. Bruce Perry’s state dependent functioning for help conceptualizing different levels of watchdog brain behavior.  Dr. Perry identifies four different levels of activation- alert, alarm, fear, and terror.  

The watchdog is scared- but acts scary.  So scary that the owl freaks out and flies away!  This is why logic isn’t helpful and why previous consequences don’t seem to matter. 

The Possum Brain

There’s one final pathway to explore.  When the nervous system detects not just danger but potential life threat, it engages what I call the possum pathway.  Again, we can look at Dr. Perry’s state dependent functioning to see how there are different levels of possum brain behavior- alert, alarm, fear, and terror.

The watchdog pathway increases activation but the possum pathway decreases it. As the possum brain gets more and more scared, it shuts down more and more.  

Felt Safety is the #1 Goal

Regardless of how activated the watchdog or possum brain is, the number one goal is to offer felt safety.  See the behavior as a behavior of protection! 

Each level of watchdog or possum is going to respond differently to different interventions. The alert watchdog and the terror watchdog need different things.   

Changing How you See Behavior Changes Behavior

Believe it or not, even though it seems like I haven’t given you any specific intervention, I actually have!  Just shifting your perspective on behavior is an intervention.  

But I also know that’s not enough.  So! I have a few options for you.  

You can head to robyngobbel.com/podcast and use the search bar to find previous episodes that relate to the specific problem you need help on.

If you need even more support than that, come join us in The Club.  

And, if you work with parents you can see if my year long immersion program, Being With, is right for you.  Being With equips you with the science, the tools, and the regulation for yourself so you can work with the families with kids with the biggest watchdog and possum brain behaviors.  Being With graduates receive licensing rights to teach my parent course to your clients and in your community- which means soon, parents all over the world will have access to professionals who can help them with alllll sorts of confusing watchdog and possum brain behavior!

Download my free ebook, What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It, to read about owls, watchdogs, and possums.  The ebook also includes some really helpful visuals that I think make it all make even more sense.  

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

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How To Change People Pleasing Behavior {EP 83}


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People pleasing is different from cooperation. 

Cooperation = connection, no loss of autonomy, requires frustration tolerance

People Pleasing = abandoning self because it is too scary or uncomfortable to regulate through the rupture in the relationship.  

People pleasing is a stress-response. It’s a behavior that the “Trickster” possum uses when the possum pathway is activated.  

If you aren’t sure what I mean by possum pathway, check out this podcast/blog: https://robyngobbel.com/possumbrain

I also describe the owl, watchdog, and possum brain in my free eBook, What Behavior Really Is, which you can download HERE.  

Some folks call this people-pleasing behavior “fawn.”

I call this “trickster” behavior.  

Keep reading or listen on the podcast!

The Trickster Possum

The trickster possum is tricky for a lot of reasons.  He’s kinda a chameleon, always trying to guess which mask he should wear to stay safe. 

Sometimes this behavior is extra tricky because the trickster possum can seem like he’s regulated and in the owl brain.  It’s pretty easy to overlook the distress that’s driving this behavior because it’s behavior that isn’t rocking the boat. 

How to Change People Pleasing Behavior

The #1 step is to do exactly what we just did- recognize it as distress.

The people pleaser trickster possum been a people pleaser for so long that they might have a hard time even knowing who they are or what they like.  

We can help these kids discover themselves!

Give this child a lot of opportunity to express themselves.  If it’s safe, say yes.  Purple hair? Yes! Mismatched clothes? Yes! 12 ponytails? Yes! 

If they express a food preference, honor it.  Don’t like green beans?  Don’t have to eat them.  

We want these kids to have experiences where they learn: “I am me, my feelings and preferences are valid, and I can express them without repercussion.”

Your trickster possum signed up for soccer then decides they hate it?  It’s OK to quit.  You aren’t focused on teaching trickster possums that sometimes they have to commit and do things they don’t want to do because trickster possums are always doing things they don’t want to do.

Become a Sportscaster

People pleasing possums might need help even know what they like!  You can help by narrating what you see.

“You wear those leggings every day- you must like something about them.  Are they soft? Warm?”

“I notice when we have mac and cheese, you ask for seconds.  When we have spaghetti with meat sauce, there’s usually some left on your plate. I wonder if you like mac and cheese more?”

Teach them It’s OK to have Preferences that are Different

People pleasers have a had time tolerating the uncomfortable feelings of being different.  Teach your people pleaser that it’s OK to be different, even if that means other people have upset or negative feelings.  

“You really like Peppa Pig.  Your brother likes Paw Patrol.  I notice you both watch way more Paw Patrol than Peppa Pig.  Next, let’s watch Peppa Pig.  Your brother can watch with us or he can take a break and play something else.  Either is fine.”

Are you accidentally enforcing people-pleasing behavior?

I’m a people pleaser, so I try to be on the look-out for times I’m accidentally teaching my son that he needs to be a people pleaser, too.  I am clear with him that he can have preferences that are different than mine.  He doesn’t have to like the same food, or clothes, or extracurricular activities.  He can voice those opinions, even when he knows they will frustrate me.  It’s my job to manage my frustration. He doesn’t have to like food simply because I cooked it for him, and he doesn’t have to like a chore simply because it has to be done.  

“It’s OK to not like meatloaf, it’s not OK to be rude.” or

“I notice you are looking at that meatloaf kinda warily.  Give it a bite, if you don’t like it, we can talk about our options.”  

“I would rather do fun things than do chores, too.  It’s totally cool that you hate emptying the dishwasher.  Maybe if you emptied it while listening to music, that would help?”

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!

/0 Comments/by

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