Lacy Alana beautifully reminds us that we don’t have to be perfect.  Our messiness can meet each other’s messiness.  We can welcome our kids’ messiness, and find the strength to keep welcoming it…even when it seems like nothing is working.

Lacy is a therapist, program developer, trapeze artist, and improv genius who comes to the podcast as an adult who understands childhood trauma because she experienced childhood trauma, including being a youth who was in out-of-home care as a teenager.  Lacy wanted to come on as a person who offers hope for all the parents and professionals out there walking this hard path of caring for a child impacted by trauma.

Find Lacy and all the amazing work she is doing in the world at www.YesAndBrain.com.

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

It’s hard to write a summary of this episode because it is so rich with goodness.

Mark Vatsaas is a dad and parent coach for parents of kids with challenging behaviors.  He’s compassionate, clear, articulate, and has a knack for seeing straight through to the heart of the manner (that’s my observation of him!!)

There are so many brilliant sound bytes in this episode.  It’s long but you are going to want to listen to the whole thing.

Keep Reading or Listen on the Podcast

Mark gives us a peek into his process as a parent coach and describes how he often sees these four themes emerge in his work with struggling parents:
1. Attachment and our drive for survival
2. How our emotions help us navigate our world
3. Defendedness
4. How parents show up- and specifically how they send cues of safety and connection to their children

There are a few tears, some laughter, and by the end you will understand by Mark’s business is called Seen and Heard.  Just listening to this episode will help you feel both seen and heard.  Promise.

To learn more about Mark’s work, head to www.SeenandHeard.coach.  He offers a free 90 minute consultation for parents- no obligation to schedule any additional sessions.

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

What does my child need for their success to be inevitable?

If I wanted to paint the top of a 20 foot wall, I’d rent some scaffolding.  Scaffolding makes the floor higher and would get me as close to the top of the wall as I needed.  

The scaffolding would help make my success inevitable.  It’s not the only thing I need to be successful (paint would come in handy!), but it’s a really important piece.  

In parenting, scaffolding is the support that we put in place that allows our children to be successful.  Then, slowly, thoughtful, and sequentially, we decrease the amount of external support needed as our children develop that capacity to be successful on their own.

Keep Reading or Listen on the Podcast

We Scaffold Everything for our Kids

Eating (liquids, to solids, to forks).

Riding a bike.

Doing homework independently. 

Cleaning their room and doing chores.

Driving.  

But we also scaffold skills like playing nicely with friends, sharing, and not taking things that don’t belong to you.

When our toddler takes something from the coffee table and breaks it, it’s because they needed more supervision.

Supervision is a Form of Scaffolding

Toddlers don’t have a ‘pause’ before exploring.  They don’t understand ownership and have no concept of ‘that doesn’t belong to me.’

If a toddler takes and breaks something, we know we didn’t toddler-proof well enough.  

If our older kids are continually struggling at something that seems like a basic skill, like playing with their sibling without hitting or not taking things that don’t belong to them, they need more scaffolding.

There are a lot of complex skills involved in playing cooperatively with another child or resisting the temptation to take something you want.  

Supervision is Scaffolding and Co-Regulation

We wouldn’t leave four toddlers to play in a room alone together like we would with four ten-year-olds.  They don’t have the brain development to play safely without the supervision (which is co-regulation) from an adult.  

So, we can scaffold those skills because scaffolding is another form of co-regulation.  

Parents Need Scaffolding, Too

When I’m struggling to parent in the way I want to, I need help.  I need a friend or professional to break down the steps.  

Let’s say you really want to get better at making repairs and apologizing to your child, but you didn’t experience a lot of repairs when you were a child so it feels very uncomfortable and vulnerable.  So vulnerable, you just can’t seem to force yourself to make that repair.

One of the most important reasons to make a repair is that repairs help our kids feel seen.  They teach our kids that relationships can survive tough stuff.  

What other ways can you help your kid know you see them and the pain of rupture even if you just can’t force yourself to make an in-person apology?

Scaffold a Repair

You could send a text!

You could ask your partner to come with you for co-regulation yourself!

You could ask the members of The Club for encouraging words that you can ‘bring with you in your mind’ while you make the repair with your child.

When your child receives your repair, even if it’s not face to face, they feel seen. They learn relationships can survive tough stuff.

The scaffolding allows you to practice the level of vulnerability you can tolerate!

Decrease the Scaffolding

The key piece here is that in scaffolding, you withdraw the supports as you grow in your capacity to make the apology.  Maybe after a couple apology texts, you’ll have developed the ability to regulate through the vulnerable feelings and make the apology in person.

Just like your kid, you need scaffolding and co-regulation when doing hard things.  In a way, that’s exactly what the parents in The Club do for each other.

This way of parenting with connection and co-regulation is hard!!!  It’s vulnerable and risky and we are taking a huge leap of faith.  

We need scaffolding and we need more co-regulation.  

Be Scaffolded by The Club

In June 2022, The Club will be doing a whole month focused on scaffolding.  We’ll have an in-depth scaffolding masterclass and we’ll brainstorm how to do scaffolding in your home with your child with your specific and unique circumstances.

The Club will be open for new members May 31- June 6!  Come join us.

If you’re reading this after June 6, you can join the next time The Club opens and you’ll be able to access the video recording in the On Demand Video Library (along with over 45 other videos).  

Changing How We See People Changes People

We aren’t totally in control of our child’s success but we can absolutely strengthen the scaffolding.  When we see challenging behaviors about not having the skills or regulation to be successful, we see our kids in totally new ways.  We feel less stressed and can come up with better ways to help.

See you next week!

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

There’s a lot of confusion about what co-regulation really is.  Parents often say to me something like “OK, I get it- I’m supposed to give co-regulation instead of a consequence.  But- what does that really mean?  Like- what does co-regulation actually look like in real life?”

What Is Regulation

Before we really define co-regulation, let’s define regulation.  Regulation is about balance.  The thermostat in my house regulates the temperature, right? The thermostat keeps track of the temperature- it monitors it.  When the temperature reaches a certain data-point, it tells the air conditioner or the heat to kick on so that the temperature will change back to the desired set point.  

The thermostat monitors the temperature and then works together with the heating or air conditioning to change the temperature when needed.

Regulation of Energy and Activation

When I talk about regulation, I’m talking about the regulation of the energy and arousal in our autonomic nervous system.  

Our autonomic nervous system has an accelerator and a brake.  Regulation simply means that the accelerator and brake of our autonomic nervous system is in balance and that there is an ability to both monitor that energy and arousal and change it, if needed.

Autonomic Regulation

A lot of our body’s regulation is autonomic.  It happens without us thinking about it.  When I’m exercising, my autonomic nervous system notices that I need more energy so it increases my heart rate, respiration, and probably a million other things that help me fuel a workout but I don’t really know about because I’m a social worker not an exercise scientist.  

Usually when the people that I know are talking about regulation, they are talking about how the autonomic nervous system fuels the energy and arousal that is underneath emotional expression.

How Regulation Develops

A lot of the autonomic nervous system develops in utero and continues to get strengthened and refined in infancy.

Think of it this way.  Healthy full term infants have a lot of ability to regulate their heart rate right?  But they are still developing regulation of their body temperature (we have to help by bundling them up for a while!) and they are definitely still developing emotion regulation, right?  Babies are great at crying- not so great at soothing.

Regulation is developed through Co-Regulation

A regulated adult offers soothing to an infant because infants are still developing regulation.  That doesn’t mean the infant is still developing a calm level of arousal right?  Infants can be calm.  What they struggle with is moving back and forth between activation and rest.  

When an infant is expressing activation by crying, they need a caregiver to soothe them.

That’s co-regulation.

Two people coming together.  One is regulated. 

Breaking it Down Even Further

I think to understand co-regulation it’s helpful to get even more granular about the co-regulation that occurs between a caregiver and an infant.

There’s two people.

The baby experiences some activation in their nervous system and can’t modify that activation- meaning they can’t bring it down- without help.

To help soothe the infant, the caregiver doesn’t just stay calm. 

The first thing that happens with the caregiver is that they experience enough activation in their own nervous system that allows them to match the baby.

There’s a little burst of “OH! The baby is crying!”  

For a brief moment, the baby and the caregiver are in sync with their level of activation. 

The caregiver then regulates their own activation because if you’ve ever tried to calm down a crying baby while you are super activated, you know it definitely does not work.

The caregiver brings their activation down so that they can energetically lend their de-activation to the baby. 

The caregiver is actually able to do both.  They are able to stay slightly activated in a way that matches and resonates with the baby, while also offering soothing.  The caregiver can keep a foot in both places.  The place of “I feel you I’m here with you in this activated place” and a foot in the place of “I can soothe myself and soothe you, too.” 

The Dance of Co-Regulation

If you’ve ever soothed a baby, you know that this process is not a straight line.  Caregivers don’t pick up their crying baby and then the baby soothes and it’s over. 

Nope.  There’s a little dance involved! 

Meaning- the caregiver responds to the baby.  The baby responds to the caregiver.  And then the caregiver responds to that.  Then the baby responds, and the caregiver responds to that. 

There’s a mostly unconscious dance that is sometimes in sync and sometimes not.  But the key here is there is what’s called mutual influence.  The caregiver responds to the baby.  The baby responds to the caregiver.  The next move can’t be predetermined because it’s based on what’s going to happen next- and that’s unknown until it happens. 

That’s co-regulation.  The continued presence and attunement of the dance. 

The Ingredients of Co-Regulation

We’ve already established that there are two people involved in co-regulation and one is more regulated than the other. 

But what else?

Physical Proximity

You can’t co-regulate a baby from another floor of the house.  Or even another room.  There is physical proximity and the closer you get to the baby the easier it is to offer co-regulation. 

Attunement

The caregiver allows the baby’s emotional distress to resonate in their own body and responds to that.  

Matching the Energy

In co-regulation, baby’s energy is first matched but by a regulated caregiver. 

Sure, sometimes caregivers end up joining the baby’s dysregulated state instead of the other way around.  Because we can co-dysregulate as well as co-regulate.  But when all is going well, the caregiver can match the baby’s energy while remaining regulated. 

Remember regulated doesn’t exactly mean calm.  It means that the caregiver has the ability to stay in balance. Regulated people are connected to themselves without getting flooded by someone else’s energy.  They are mindfully aware and present. 

They aren’t necessarily calm or happy or anything like that. 

What about older kids?

How do we co-regulate older kids? Or even our partners?

Well, first there’s some proximity.  For kids who have developmentally delayed self-regulation, they need more proximity to the regulated caregiver.  We can’t co-regulate a baby from another floor of the house and if your teen is delayed in the development of self-regulation, you can’t co-regulate them from afar either. 

The first thing I look for in kids with dysregulated behaviors is how far are they from regulated adults and for how often?  Where are they sitting in the classroom?  Are the behavior problems happening at recess when there is no regulated adult in proximity.  Or lunch time?  Or on the bus? 

Then of course if we’re going to decrease the distance to an adult or caregiver, that adult or caregiver has to be mostly regulated themselves.  

To offer co-regulation, the adult’s nervous system is experiencing felt-safety and able to resonate with the child’s intensity without getting flooded by it. 

Then the adult matches the child’s intensity and activation- while also maintaining a connection to their own grounded and present self. 

Then the adult participates in the dance.  This is where I can’t tell you what to do because I have no idea what the next step in the dance is.  What I can teach you is how to grow in your regulated, mindful presence with yourself so that you can stay very present and attuned during that dance. 

And you won’t give up the dance when there is a misstep.  You’ll just keep going. 

Real Life Now

OK enough metaphor.

Here’s a story of co-regulation.

It’s time to leave somewhere your kid doesn’t want to leave. 

Your kid expresses their distress.  Maybe they ignore you or run off or scream “No, I’m not going!” Maybe they just start to cry, hard.  Or throw the shovel they were digging with at you.  There’s an infinite number of ways kids express their distress. 

You resonate with the distress first without trying to change it! 

“OH!  You do NOT want to go!  It seems like are so mad (or sad) that it’s time to go.  It’s so hard when the fun times are over.” 

If you’re real lucky, your child will immediately sync up with the dance and agree.  

“Yes! I don’t want to go! I was having fun!”

Now you’re in sync and you can continue the dance of matching and attunement.  What will almost certainly happen is that the child’s level of activation will slowly start to lower. 

You’ll stay present and attuned and notice when you and your child are connected enough that you can now focus back on the problem- it’s time to leave. 

“It’s so hard to leave.  It is time to go home.  I’ll be disappointed with you while you say goodbye to your friends and we get into the car.  I have a drink all ready for you in there- I knew you’d be thirsty after all this playing!” 

I know I know.  Your kid doesn’t fall into that co-regulated dance quite so easily.  You might have to spend a lot more time matching their energy before they sync up.  Kids with vulnerable nervous systems, and especially kids with disorganization in their attachment history, sometimes give very confusing cues.  

Sometimes we can even feel like our kid doesn’t want to be regulated- like they are staying dysregulated on purpose.

I get that.  If that’s your kid, check out the Attachment Series.  The whole series will be helpful but perhaps the section on disorganized attachment will be most helpful. 

Kids with insecure attachment are hoping for co-regulation but expecting more dysregulation.  This conflict between their hope and expectation can cause some really confusing behaviors so it’s helpful to understand those behaviors as well stay confident that the nervous system always wants to move toward regulation.  Even your child’s.  Promise.  

Co-Regulation Doesn’t Have to Involve Words

In fact, the more dysregulated your child is, the fewer the words you want to use.

Have you ever tried to connect with an angry child who screams at you to shut up?

Maybe you’re wondering- what am I supposed to do?  I’m supposed to connect and co-regulate with this person!  How can you attune and match the energy if you can’t use words??

I promise you- you can attune and match the energy without using any words.  You can sit still, with energy in your body that is present, matched, and regulated, and not say anything.

When my own son goes over a dysregulation tipping point, I know I can’t say anything.  Period.  I want to because sometimes he says things that are simply untrue and I feel defensive.  But words are pointless.  Unless the words sound like “would you like a drink or a snack?”  

Matching the energy doesn’t have to have words or gestures or actions.  We hold energy in our bodies.  Match the energy and then maybe offer a gesture of connection and co-regulation- like a drink or a snack. 

Passive Vs. Active Co-Regulation

So far, I’ve described active co-regulation.  The regulated adult is doing something to offer co-regulation to the dysregulated other.

Co-Regulation can feel a lot like doing, but it’s really so much more about being, right?

Most co-regulation doesn’t involve doing at all.  It’s the kind of co-regulation that is happening constantly between two people without us evening thinking about it.

Like a heartbeat.  It’s just always happening.

When my son is doing homework at the kitchen bar but I’m not actively involved, in fact I might not really be paying attention to him at all, co-regulation is still happening.  In fact, he is much more successful at staying on task and having frustration tolerance when he does homework in proximity of me or my husband- even though we rarely have to actively co-regulate him anymore.

Passive co-regulation is why our kids tend to behave better when we are nearby.  It can feel like our kids only behave well when we are supervising them or the risk of consequence is higher because we are watching.  

It’s really about the passive co-regulation that’s happening due to proximity.  The passive co-regulation allows our children’s owl brain to stay more engaged, which is where cause and effect thinking, frustration tolerance, and cooperation all live.

I have a whole other podcast/blog all about how easy it is to label our kids unable to be trusted when we aren’t directly supervising but really what’s happening is that our kids need our passive co-regulation in order to stay regulated and connected to their owl brain.  You can check out that podcast HERE.  

Co-Regulation is Hard to Describe with Words

There’s only so much we can do in a blog or podcast to describe co-regulation.  Co-regulation is a little easier to understand if we can observe it (if you’re a Club member, I’m creating a ‘bank’ of co-regulation videos so you can see co-regulation in action).  

Co-regulation is best understood when you can feel it, experience it, and embody it.  Both the giving and the receiving of co-regulation. It’s one of the primary tenets of The Club.  I wanted to create a space where the caregivers could both give and receive the co-regulation that they want to give their kids.  The Club also supports parents while they practice (and mess up!!!) co-regulation with their kids.  It’s so hard and really calls for a lot of tenacity and persistence to keep trying.  

Learning about something like co-regulation in a podcast can help demystify it enough that it feels safe to practice it. 

Let me know in the comments if co-regulation feels a little more clear now!

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


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Intro to Bethany

Bethany Saltman is the author of part memoir part biography Strange SituationA Mother’s Journey into the Science of Attachment.  Bethany is a professional researcher, writer, and longtime Zen student who went searching for what she felt was missing when she was a new mom.  I was so honored to interview Bethany for a podcast episode that was released on June 1, 2021.  You can listen to that episode here.

Like myself, Bethany discovered Dr. Sears’ The Baby Book on attachment parenting when she was pregnant with her now 15-year-old daughter and had expectations about what motherhood and parenting was going to look like: a blissful time where she enjoyed the natural awakenings of maternal instinct.

Which did not happen. 

Keep reading or listen on the podcast!

How a Strange Situation was born

Bethany remembers that she wasn’t patient with her daughter.  She didn’t feel very loving toward her.  And ultimately she felt broken because Dr. Sears had promised in his book that attachment parenting was easy because it ‘feeds on a mother’s natural intuition.’  Bethany stated she was doing her best but also doing a lot of things wrong as a mom- and couldn’t figure out why.   

When Bethany’s daughter was about six-months-old, she was given Dr. Dan Siegel’s book Parenting from the Inside Out and “wanted that book out of my house.”  She was overwhelmed with the idea that her daughter could be significantly impacted by her own inner-world.  She couldn’t tolerate the idea that “the darkness inside of me was going to impact my daughter.”  

Eventually, of course, she came to realize she wasn’t broken, there was nothing wrong with her, and that yes, it is really important to look at ‘our own stuff’ when we are parenting.  She took it slow and titrated her exploration into herself and how her own history would impact her parenting (even eventually reading the once banned from her house Parenting from the Inside Out).    How very wise to take it slow and in tolerable doses!

Attachment theory vs Attachment parenting

In the early years of her daughter’s life, Bethany discovered actual attachment theory- not attachment parenting- and the work of Mary Ainsworth, including her landmark research on the science of attachment and The Strange Situation.

Bethany dove into Ainsworth’s work, deeply immersing herself in the history and science of attachment.  While ultimately studying the science of attachment brought her to a place of self-compassion, Bethany initially went through a period where studying attachment actually caused her to mental flog herself even more.  As she learned about attachment she had a time period of believing that not only was she a bad mom but now she had information about all the very specific ways in which she was a bad mom and what the impact was going to be.  

Luckily, Bethany stayed the course and just kept studying attachment science.  She kept wondering and asking herself “is she (her daughter) going to be OK??”  She felt like she needed to understand attachment in a deeply human, embodied way.  

Remember- Bethany isn’t a therapist or a clinician or even in the mental health or psychology field.  She veraciously studied attachment theory, got herself interviews with some of the leading researchers in the field, and got trained in both The Strange Situation– the laboratory experiment that enables researchers to study and code infant attachment, and The Adult Attachment experiment– an interview that enables researchers to study and code adult attachment. 

Her book, Strange Situation, is a memoir about this journey and exploration.

It was a lovely, gorgeous book.  I read it quickly- like, couldn’t put it down and carried it around with me quickly.

“In order for us to see our children we have to see.”

I asked Bethany if she remembered the moment when she realized that if she wanted to parent her daughter in the way that she wanted that she was going to have to look more closely at herself.

Delight and Secure Attachment

There wasn’t a watershed moment but what she does remember is learning about how important delight is in secure attachment.  Ainsworth talked about how in order to have delight in your child- a crucial ingredient in secure attachment- you need to have delight in your life.   Bethany started prioritizing experiencing and enjoying moments of delight as well as having more compassion for herself.  

I loved hearing Bethany talk about the importance of delight because I feel the same way!!!!  My colleague Marshall and I prioritize delight in how we offer therapy that is steeped in attachment.  If you’ve trained with Marshall and I, you know this!

Bethany was just so clear- if we want to offer our kids delight we have to experience moments of delight in our own lives.  To give delight, we must experience delight.  It’s not selfish!!!

Back to Mary Ainsworth.  Bethany discovered and explored the work of Ainsworth in possibly more depth than anyone ever has.  She was able to access Ainsworth’s journals, her initial writings, and like I mentioned, even became trained in The Strange Situation and The Adult Attachment Interview!

Y’all, training in The Strange Situation and The Adult Attachment Interview is hard!  It’s tedious, it’s a firehose of information, they are loooooong days.  I haven’t trained in either myself (The Strange Situation is a week long training and the Adult Attachment Interview is two weeks!) and to imagine going into either without my background as a clinician who is already pretty well steeped in attachment sounds completely overwhelming.

And Bethany said, “I’ve never been happier.”

Live a life of delight!

Ultimately Bethany reflected on how this tenacious deep-dive into attachment theory and Ainsworth’s work has left her with a lot of compassion for herself.  She’s doing the best she can, just like everyone else.  Beating yourself up, she says, is not going to make yourself a better mom.

We can’t be violent ourselves and expect to emerge as a more gentle, wonderful, light-filled parent.  We have to cultivate those qualities in our own hearts.

She said “It’s like wanting to live in a blue house and continuing to paint it green- over and over and over again.  If you want to live in a blue house, you need to paint it blue.” 

YES.  Live what you want!  You want to give your child delight?  Live a life of delight!  You want your child to grown up a curious and compassionate person?  Live a curious and compassionate life.

YES!!!!

What does it mean to be a mom? What does it meant to be happy? Content? Loving?

Bethany’s exploration into the science attachment led her to conclusion that behaviors have actually very little to do with attachment. There isn’t a checklist.  Raising a child with secure attachment isn’t about breastfeeding or co-sleeping. 

It has to do with how you think and feel about our attachments and how this is transmitted from mind to mind, generation to generation.  

Bethany ends our conversation with Permission Granted.  Go out and live in a place of delight.  Have compassion for yourself.  You don’t have to go looking for permission for delight, compassion and rest.  You can give yourself that permission.  

Go find Bethany on Instagram @Bethany_Saltman and explore all the cool things she is offering at www.BethanySaltman.com.  The paperback of Strange Situation was released in April.

Bethany and I share a similar drive- to translate the science of attachment and make it easily accessible to everyone.  Strange Situation is a gift to the world.  It’s a lyrical story and an easy read that highlights the amazing work of Mary Ainsworth while bringing compassion to every parent who reads it.  

Robyn

Free eBook- Brilliance of Attachment

This podcast is part of my series all about attachment.  In the coming weeks, we’ll be getting back to the basics.  What is attachment?  What is secure versus insecure?  Why does it matter?  How does attachment develop?  And ultimately then- how do we change it???

You can keep reading on my blog and listening on my podcast (click the ‘next’ button to go to the next blog/podcast in the series!)

I’d also love to send you the F R E E eBook I created based on this series.  With the eBook, you’ll have the entire series in one, downloadable PDF you can store on your device, print, and access whenever you want.  It’s beautiful (and it’s not just me that thinks so!  I keep getting emails from folks swooning over the gorgeous design- which I did not do myself!)

Just let me know below the email address where you’d like me to send it!


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Dr. Mona Delahooke is an infant and toddler mental health specialist who weaves together the connection between behaviors and the nervous system. In addition to her direct clinical work with families, Dr. Delahooke has dedicated her career to bringing the science of behaviors and the nervous system to educators and parents.

Dr. Delahooke’s third book, Brain Body Parenting: How to Stop Managing Behavior and Start Raising Joyful, Resilient Kids, was released today, March 15, 2022.

Keep Reading or Listen on the Podcast

Brain Body Parenting

Dr. Delahooke takes a transdisciplinary approach to conceptualizing children’s behaviors, which then informs the ways she offers support to that particular child.  She looks at behaviors through the lens of the childs:

  1. Physiology and the different pathways in our autonomic nervous system
  2. Social and emotional development
  3. Unique, individual needs.

This trifecta is the foundation for Brain Body Parenting (as well as her previous book, Beyond Behaviors).

Dr. Delahooke knows I work with kids with the biggest, more challenging, most severe- and what can feel like the most personal (manipulation, control, etc.) behaviors.

We agreed that this brain-body approach applies to all behaviors- even the trickiest ones!  This approach also applies to behaviors that don’t seem particularly dysregulated, such as calculated lying.

The path toward changing behaviors is to focus on the child’s physiology (their autonomic nervous system), their social and emotional development, and their unique needs.

The window never closes for re-wiring hope; for helping a brain predict safety rather than threat.  ~Dr. Delahooke

Connection First? Or not always?

Dr. Delahooke and I talked about how regulation and the autonomic nervous system are the platform that holds connection.  

So many parents are supported to be with their children in ways that are supposed to be connection-building.  Connection is important of course!

But sometimes the ways we are offering connection are difficult for a child to receive because of the state of their physiology.  

Sometimes, those offerings of connection can even be experienced by the child as unsafe or more dysregulating.

We may need to focus on the child’s physiology first and help to bring a sense of safety into their bodies through physiological pathways before focusing intensely on connection.

Sometimes, due to a child’s unique and vulnerable nervous system (for a wide variety of reasons, including sensory processing disorder, a history of trauma etc.,) parents can learn how to titrate the intensity of their offers of connection.

We can also reframe our child’s rejection of connection as not necessarily an attachment issue but as the child’s adaptive response to nervous system overwhelm.  

Find Dr. Delahooke

Dr. Delahooke’s Website: https://monadelahooke.com

Dr. Delahooke on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrMonaDelahooke

Dr. Delahooke on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/monadelahooke/

Dr. Delahooke’s Books

Brain Body Parenting (newly released on March 15, 2022!)

Beyond Behaviors

Social & Emotional Development

Download the podcast transcript here: Brain Body Parenting_TRANSCRIPT

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

I’m introducing you to one more amazing mom in The Club this week.

This mom has given me the privilege of watching some pretty remarkable transformation happen as she practices being OK with exactly who she is.

And how that matters in her parenting.

I hope you love this special episode.

Many many thanks to my special guest :) And to all the special parents and caregivers in the Club.

If you’d love to join us over in The Club, CLICK HERE.

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

“I experienced post-adoption depression when my son was adopted as a newborn.  Now he has some behaviors that make it hard for me to parent with compassion.  How do we get out of this stuckness?”

This is such a brave and vulnerable and honest question.  Thank you for trusting as well as trusting all my listeners to hold you and your son’s pain.

Regular podcast listeners won’t be surprised that I start off by talking about self-compassion!  I have some thoughts about the important of everyone processing their grief, as well as how to support this parent’s son is expressing authentic and valid feelings without being hurtful.

In this episode, I mention my free ebook on attachment: https://robyngobbel.com/ebook

Q&A Episodes

Have a question?  Leave me a voice message over at https://robyngobbel.com/podcast

Look for the box that says “Send me a question!”

Hit the button and record your question right on my website.  Easy peasy!

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

Dr. Katja Rowell is a family physician in Washington State, the author of Conquer Picky Eating for Teens and Adults, Helping Your Child with Extreme Picky Eating, and Love Me, Feed Me.  Dr. Rowell is also the co-founder of Responsive Feeding Pros, an international digital learning platform for professionals working with feeding and eating challenges within a responsive framework.

Responsive Feeding is a feeding model that has been in the academic literature since 2011 and is recommended by American Academy of Pediatrics. 

Dr. Rowell described Responsive Feeding as a model that ultimately helps kids tune into their hunger and fullness cues, while also recognizing and honoring that food is comforting and regulating.  

Responsive Feeding is a model that is both high structure and high nurture, which ultimately allows for a lot of flexibility.  Responsive Feeding prioritizes felt safety; it is never intended to be rigid.  Responsive feeding is about attunement and helping caregivers respond to their child’s cues.

All of this sounds very familiar right?  Attunement, felt-safety, high-structure, high-nurture.

I knew Dr. Rowell would be just the right guest to talk to my audience!

Keep Reading or Listen on the Podcast!

When we feed from a place of anxiety, we aren’t going to have good outcomes. ~Dr. Katja Rowell

We are so lucky to Dr. Rowell’s expertise here on the podcast.  Just a quick reminder that our conversation isn’t offering medical advice!  Dr. Rowell’s whole model is on attunement and knowing your child- not rigidly following advice from someone who has never met your child.  You are your child’s expert!

Picky Eaters

Dr. Rowell’s first suggestion for families who are struggling with picky-eating is to do family style feeding.  This means the child is invited to serve themselves without any cajoling or bribing, and they have the power to choose what and how much they serve themselves, and then what and how much they eat.

Family style feeding can neutralize power-struggles and begin the process toward removing anxiety around food.

But- What About Nutrition?

Of course, parents are worried about nutrition and giving their kids the right amount of food and nutrients they need to be healthy.  Nutrition is important!

But nutrition doesn’t trump felt-safety.  Chronic states of activation due to stress is harmful to our bodies and associated with heart disease, diabetes, and many of the same health challenges that are fueling our stress about food and nutrition.  Felt-safety trumps all!

What About Over-Eating?

The primary goal for kids who struggle with food-preoccupation is to decrease or eliminate the anxiety related to food and feeding. 

For both parents and kids!

It feels very anxiety provoking to have a child who the doctors or growth charts are labeling as overweight. 

Our fat-phobic culture is very judgmental of overweight children (and adults!) and this stresses out parents.

When we are parenting children who struggle with food-preoccupation, we have to do our own inner work to reduce or eliminate our anxiety about having a child in a bigger body. ~Dr. Rowell

Connecting with a Child With Food-Preoccupation

Dr. Rowell’s book, Love Me, Feed Me, outlines a potential approach for connecting with a child with food-preoccupation, understanding that the goals are to eliminate food-related anxiety and help a child begin to connect with their body cues. 

The specifics of this approach go beyond a short podcast interview, but I highly encourage you to read Love Me, Feed Me.  (Dr. Rowell felt a little sheepish about plugging her book but I assured her that y’all want easy to access, easy to read, and easy to understand resources like her book- and it truly is a great book). 

Noticing Ourselves

I was so grateful to connect with Dr. Rowell regarding her thoughts on helping us parents tune into our own bodies.  This just fits right in with everything we talk about here on the Parenting after Trauma Podcast!  

Notice ourselves first.  

Dr. Rowell and I both commiserated that food and feeding is a really hard aspect of parenting.  Parents are getting judgments from the teachers, the doctors, even from their own family about how they feed their child, what they feed their child, and the size of the child’s body.

So much about parenting kids with big, baffling behaviors is about finding ways to stay regulated and connected to ourselves, finding experiences of felt-safety in our own bodies, and making the choices that work the best for our family. Even when we’re being judged by others.  

It’s hard.

You’re doing amazing.

Find Dr. Rowell

Dr. Rowell’s Website: www.thefeedingdoctor.com

Dr. Rowell on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thefeedingdoctor

Dr. Rowell on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katjarowellmd/ and https://www.instagram.com/responsivefeedingpro/

Responsive Feeding Pro (for professionals): https://responsivefeedingpro.com/

White Paper on Responsive Feeding (Values and Practice): CLICK HERE

Article on Healing Food Preoccupation and Trusting Hunger and Fullness

Dr. Rowell’s Books

Love me, Feed Me

Conquer Picky Eating for Teens and Adults

Helping Your Child with Extreme Picky Eating

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!


Listen on Apple Podcasts Listen on Spotify

Today is your lucky day because you get to meet a pretty awesome mom.

A mom who might be a little like you- even if you’re a grandma or a dad or a foster parent or a big sister or whoever you are.

A mom who is straight up with us right away that she knows it’s very possible that her child will have possibly life-long struggles with regulation.

And even if that’s true, there are still a lot of things she can do to make life easier or better or maybe just less hard.

I hope you love this special episode.

Many many thanks to my special guest :)

The Club opens periodically to new members!  See all the details and join us over at https://robyngobbel.com/theclub

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!