Living With Someone Chronically Dysregulated {EP 171}

Robyn: I know that the vast majority of y'all listening to this podcast, whether you listen as a parent, or whether you listen to as a professional, I know that the very vast majority of you live with someone and love someone who seems like they're chronically dysregulated. And they might actually be chronically dysregulated. But I also know that living with someone who seems chronically dysregulated, it starts to feel like it's just truth, right? Like they are chronically dysregulated. And the line between seems like they're chronically dysregulated, and just straight up are chronically dysregulated can get a little blurry. And I totally get there. I mean, for what it's worth, it is helpful to notice the difference between, seems like they're chronically dysregulated, and actually is chronically dysregulated, it can be helpful to notice that, but that's not actually what I plan to really talk about today. Even if the person you're thinking of isn't totally, chronically dysregulated, my guess is that there are periods of constant chronic dysregulation. And y'all, it's exhausting, absolutely exhausting.    

Robyn: Now, real quick, let's pause for a second. If you are the person in your family who is chronically dysregulated, please hear this episode as overflowing with compassion for you. I know that living with somebody chronically dysregulated is second in awfulness only to actually being chronically dysregulated. And some families, maybe you kind of go back and forth. I think that kind of happens in my family, right? That like, neither of us are immune- neither of us meaning me and my husband, are immune from having the experience of kind of being chronically dysregulated which means one of us is sometimes living with someone chronically dysregulated. So this episode is certainly not criticism of the individual who is more chronically dysregulated. We're just pausing that experience for a moment and thinking in this episode about the caregiver or the person who is living with that chronically dysregulated person. So again, if you're the chronically dysregulated person, this episode is not throwing shade. I promise. I promise, I promise, I promise.    

Robyn: So we know from listening to the Baffling Behavior Show- and if this is your first time welcome, and I invite you to hit play on some of the older episodes. But we know that nervous systems are always trying to match each other, right? That's essentially what neuroception is, and part of our neuroception is seeking out information on the state of the nervous system of the other people we're with. And if those folks are dysregulated, our first instinct is to shift into protection mode, shift into dysregulation as well, right? Because it's true that being with somebody who's in protection mode, being with somebody who's dysregulated, often is actually dangerous. So we're gonna flip into protection mode as well, to match them and to, you know, work to keep ourselves safe. That's neuroception. And specifically, the between aspect of neuroception, there's an older podcast episode- not that old, it was a couple weeks ago, all about the between aspect of felt safety and neuroception. So you can scroll back a little bit and find that was part of the felt safety series, the between episode. I think it's the third one in the three part felt safety episode- felt safety series.    

Robyn: Part of where we're getting cues of danger or safety from, is the state of the nervous system of the person that we're with. So if we spend a lot of time with someone who is chronically dysregulated, chronically in protection mode, it makes a lot of sense that we're going to eventually feel like we're in chronic protection mode ourselves. And while our nervous system, just like everybody else is is longing to find safety, longing to rest into safety, you know, if you find yourself in protection mode often enough, you're gonna kind of start just defaulting to protection mode. I mean, that is what's happening with the person you're living with who's chronically dysregulated. They're kind of defaulting to chronic protection mode, eventually, that starts to happen to us as well. Yet, my guess is for everybody listening, you very well likely might be a person in your home who is tasked with the responsibility of being the most regulated, and that you're being tasked with that responsibility even if you aren't very regulated yourself. There's this expectation, there's this felt responsibility of just continuing to deal with everyone else's dysregulation. And we tend to do one of two things then; one, we kind of disconnect or dissociate from our own dysregulation, or two, we turn to our own inner resources, more than we can turn to co-regulation, right? There's probably not a great space to turn to for co-regulation if you live with somebody who's chronically dysregulated. So it makes sense that we're turning more to our own inner resources than to co-regulation. Now, turning to our own inner resources, that's not bad. That's what self-regulation is. But we were never meant to rely solely on self-regulation. Humans aren't. So no matter how old you get, how mature you get, how, you know, strong that self-regulation muscle gets, how much co-regulation you've internalized, right? And you can learn all about how self-regulation is really just internalized co-regulation. If you go back in the podcast archives to Episode 43, which is called there's no such thing as self-regulation. Okay, so you can jump back to that one, if that's kind of a new concept for you. Even if we have lots and lots of internalized co-regulation, we have lots and lots of self-regulation to turn to and rely on ourselves. It still isn't what we as humans were meant to do, always.     

Robyn: There's another part of this, though, that I don't know if I've ever heard anybody else really talk about, there's a rhythm to all relationships, a rhythm of serve and return. We make energetic serves to someone, and we expect to have an energetic return. It's like a relationally, energetic game of catch. So imagine an actual game of catch, or tossing a balloon back and forth in this nice, gentle serve and return way. That is the hoped-for, energetic, relational rhythm. Now, in an actual game of catch, if you throw too hard, it's hard for the other person to catch. And if you don't even make an attempt to catch it, or it bonks you in the head, or you catch it and refuse to toss it back. Well, that becomes a pretty lousy game of catch. Right? I mean, just thinking about playing catch like that is irritating, just thinking about it. To be longing for like a rhythm of back and forth, serve and return- to be longing for that predictability, and then to not get it. And to not only not get it, but to have it be totally out of your control to try to get it, feels terrible. Right. And of course, I'm not actually talking about a real live game of catch. If you're playing a real-life game of catch like that, you're probably going to say, sorry, this isn't fun, and you're going to walk away from it. That's what's happening in the energetic, relational, serve-and-return when we're in relationship with somebody who's in chronic protection mode and who's chronically dysregulated.    

Robyn: That the serve and return- the energetic serve and return of relationship, feels like the relationship energy is being thrown too hard and you can't catch it. Or it feels like when you toss something their way, they're not attempting to catch it. Right? Or they catch it and they're refusing to throw it back. That's what it feels like to be in relational serve and return with somebody who's chronically dysregulated. And it feels awful. Dr. Bruce Perry's work around strengthening and organizing the brainstem talks a lot about creating experiences that are rhythmic, repetitive, relational and somatosensory to help heal, organize, strengthen the brainstem. In kids who have vulnerable nervous systems, either early trauma or toxic stress, especially attachment and developmental trauma. They've had their rhythms of relationship disrupted, right? They don't engage in serve and return in the way that we expect. Restoring and reorganizing and regulating these rhythms is a crucial part of working with these kids. In my therapy practice, I focused heavily on experiences and activities that were literally rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory, and I taught their parents how to support their kids with rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences.    

Robyn: My friend Martio Smith, you all know Marti right? Marti Smith, occupational therapist, she created an assessment based on Dr. Perry's work to help parents see the aspects of their child that could benefit from some extra support. And many of those recommendations are rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory. Marti is a pretty constant, special guest over in the club, and she has done a couple masterclasses for us, Marti has written a fantastic book called The Connected Therapist where you can get ideas about rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences. And Marti has just published, in fact, I didn't really plan this. But now that I think about it, Marti's newest book will be published, gosh, right before this episode goes live. Her new book is called Sensory Healing After Developmental Trauma. And it's written for professionals. But I think, even if you're not a professional, especially if you have some background in beginning to understand regulation and some of Dr. Perry's work, that that book will have a lot of ideas for you and can be really helpful in helping your kids rediscover- or discover really, maybe for the first time, rhythmic, repetitive, relational experiences. Which will then help to create rhythmic, repetitive, relational, serve and return, and relational, energetic experiences.    

Robyn: I actually do have a podcast series about strengthening the foundation of the brain. It starts back at Episode 47, there's six parts to that series, you can also go to my website, go to the free resources page. And you can find all six of those episodes kind of stored together, so they're easier to find. And to access. So I'm actually getting way off track here, I didn't intend to go this far down this path about rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences. But that is how I help kids find this serve and return that exists in relationship. And it can be a really great thing to keep in mind when living with somebody who's chronically dysregulated. That part of what's happening for them is that their serve and return has been disrupted. And if we can help them rediscover that, with rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences, that's a fun and playful way that we can practice helping the nervous system shift out of protection mode, and shift back into connection mode.    

Robyn: Y'all, I'll just say again, this is so hard. There is so so so much grief in continuing to send a relational serve to someone- someone you love, someone you care about, somebody that you are longing to be in relationship with, and not getting that serve sent back to you. There can almost be this sense of kind of like, where are you? The sense of like, just searching, longing for that person to be there, and to receive your relationship offerings and to send some back to you, and it's so unbelievably lonely. And I know that some of you are like me and you had a really connected relationship with this person, before their nervous system started to really, really, really struggle. And there is so much grief for what has been lost. Right? And that lives side by side with the hope that the ease and the connection and the safety can return. And y'all, I absolutely, of course, believe that there is so much hope. There's so much hope, or I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be behind the microphone. I wouldn't be doing the work that I did. I don't know how I would make it through every single day if there wasn't hope, I believe so much in the hope. But next to that hope, side by side with that hope, is the grief, is the acknowledgment that these experiences are traumatic for us.    

Robyn: So I'll put some links down in the show notes about episodes where you can go to have those experiences really seen and validated for you too. I have an episode called When Parenting is Traumatic. I have an episode all about the grief in parenting, so I'll make sure that those episodes gets linked in the show notes And you can find them really, really easily. Y'all I know that living with somebody's chronically just regulating is so exhausting, it's demoralizing. We fall onto our own Possum pathway ourselves. You might even want to go check out the, what to do and your nervous system is fried episode. If you're finding yourself really stuck on that Possum pathway, I get it, I get it. And I told you at the beginning, this probably wasn't going to be a what to do episode but more of a, I see you episode. And I think we kind of need a mixture of both.    

Robyn: I know the vast majority of you listening are living with someone chronically dysregulated. And I'm really, really grateful that you press play on this podcast, that you come here. And I'm sure that other places in your life as well, to experience portions of a relationship that do feel safe, that do feel connected. And it's pretty wild to think that we can get that through a podcast. But I know because of your emails that we can get that through a podcast. And I kept those ideas in mind. I took those ideas and tried to then weave them into the books that I wrote, too. Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors. That I really wanted, as much as possible, for the book to be an experience in your life where you can be in relationship with somebody who isn't chronically dysregulated. And I know that the things- I know the podcasts, I know the book, even the club, I know these things aren't replacements for actual, in real life relationship with the person that you love. Offering you that connection and offering you that co-regulation. I know they're not a replacement. But it is what I can offer. And I'm so grateful that you come here to receive it, you come to the podcast, or maybe you've read the book, or maybe you're a member of the club. I'm so so so grateful. That's where the hope comes from y'all. That's where I can see the hope that even when things are hard, you continue to seek out spaces of connection and spaces of co-regulation and I'm really honored to be a part of the community that gets to offer that to you. Thank you for tuning in again to another episode of The Baffling Behavior Show. We will be back with you again next week.