Are Connected Kids Always Cooperative? {EP 173}

Robyn: Now, this statement about regulated connection, kids who feel safe, this isn't a recipe, okay? I'm not intending to give you a checklist like, get your kid regulated, get your kid connected, and get your kid feeling safe, and you'll have a kid who behaves good. That's not it at all. It's not a recipe. It's a statement that's intended to open up some curiosity, so that when our kids are struggling, or whoever it is that we're with that struggling, including ourselves, we can kind of go backwards, right? So regulated, connected kids- humans, who feel safe, are doing well. And we're with somebody who's struggling, we can get curious, does this person need help with regulation, or connection or felt safety, some combination of the three, usually it is a combination, they rarely, you know, exist in a silo like that. So it gives us the opportunity to go backwards and get curious. But also, it helps us keep in perspective, that this behavior isn't about choice. It isn't about character. It isn't about some major, you know, character flaw. It's about regulation or connection or felt health safety. So even if we can't do anything about it, even if we can't help the person, even if we can't help ourselves, it invites us to stay out of judgments, remain in a place of curiosity and compassion. Which of course, of course, of course, still has boundaries. This isn't a free-for-all all. It's not an excuse. In fact, I have podcasts all about the difference between understanding and excusing, it's not an excuse. It's just a way for us to say in a place of compassion, and curiosity.    

Robyn: Okay, so let's look at regulation, connection, felt safety, doing well, behaving well, whatever you want to say. Let's look at this even more closely. Does this mean that kids who are connected are always cooperative, right? If a kid is regulated, connecting and feeling safe, does that mean they're always behaving well? If you have a child who isn't a child that would be described as cooperative overall, or even in a specific moment, because all of us certainly have kids, even if you have a kid who overall would be described as cooperative, and mostly this is a temperament issue, some of us are more cooperative than others go ahead and guess which one I am more cooperative than others are less cooperative than others, right? A lot of this is temperament-based, but let's just say you do have a kid who temperamentally airs on the side of more cooperative? They're not always cooperative, right? So in those moments that they're not cooperative, or if you have a child who's not cooperative overall, does that mean they're not connected? Well, it might. But it also might not. And if it does mean that they're not connected, does that mean something is wrong? Well, it might, but also, not necessarily, right? I mean, nobody should always be cooperative, right? Someone who's always kind of quote-unquote cooperative, or what we would maybe label cooperative, someone who's always cooperative doesn't have a very strong identity, or a very strong like, sense of self for who they are. And what I mean by that is, they probably don't have a very solid sense of like, what they like, what they don't like, what their preferences are, what their values are, right?    

Robyn: Because if I did have a really strong sense of those things, right, let's say I know that I love Mexican food. But my partner loves Italian food. If I have a very strong sense of how much I love Mexican food, am I always going to be cooperative with their desire to have Italian food? No, no, no, of course not. Right? Always being cooperative with what someone else wants is going to mean, I don't have a super strong sense of who I am, or what I like or what I want. Right? And again, some of this is temperament bass, some of us are kind of more committed, for lack of better words to like what we want. But constant cooperation would really essentially just mean constantly becoming whoever everyone else wants us to be. A person who loves Italian food, for example. Humans- our kids, discover who they are and what they like, and what they don't like, what their values are, what they're willing to fight for, by being uncooperative, by not being in alignment with everyone else around them, whether that be you as their parents or their peers or their teachers, as much as we want our kids to be like us and to like the things that we like, and to have the same values that we have, they're not going to. In fact, for the most part, if we do our job well, they are going to have ways in which they're different. Because that means they have the safety and the freedom to feel like they can be different, they can explore themselves, and they can spend some time noticing what they like or what they don't like, and what their preferences are, or not.    

Robyn: It's actually pretty risky, from a, being human perspective, to experiment with being our own selves, and what we like and what we don't like. Because humans also are really driven to belong, we want to be like other people, we want to belong, we want to fit in, we want to be claimed in a group. And usually, that means having some shared likes, values, preferences, things like that, right? So how do we balance that, like our need to belong and our need to be kind of claimed by a group with also being who we are, which is, of course, never going to be the same? Right? So in some ways, felt safety is actually exactly what invites being uncooperative. We talked about something kind of similar a few weeks ago when we talked about kind of the line between where safety invites regulation, versus where safety allows for dysregulation to be expressed. Right? So same here, right? Felt safety can be exactly what invites- like the privilege to be uncooperative, or to be ourselves, or to discover ourselves. So instead of trying to make being cooperative or uncooperative, a good thing or a bad thing, let's just agree that it's a human thing. That in order to discover who we are and create our own really solid identity, that we are going to be uncooperative sometimes. This is just about being human.    

Robyn: Another way To look at the word connected in this, like regulated, connected kids regulated, connected parents who feel safety well. Another way to look at the word connected is to remember that being connected doesn't simply just mean being connected to other people, right? So if we're talking about our kids here, my kid, if I was gonna describe him as being connected, is not just about being connected to me, right? It's about him being connected to himself and connected to himself, or our kids being connected to themselves could mean that they're going to be uncooperative, non-compliant with a teacher, because maybe the teacher is saying something or behaving in ways that's going against their values. And this incongruence with their values, for example, like noticing an injustice, for example, that's going to shift their nervous system into protection mode. Right? While also, they remain connected to themselves, see how that kind of balances out there? Like for me to notice, and care, and do something about an injustice, I have to first have the experience that is incongruent with my sense of values, that's gonna flip me into protection mode. But I also at the same time am having the experience of being connected to myself, that's how I even know that it's incongruent with my own values. So it's kind of simultaneous- this shift into production mode while still remaining in connection mode, right? Until the injustice of course becomes such a threat to safety or autonomy, that it may push them down- like way further down the Watchdog or the Possum pathway, fully into protection mode. And when we get all the way to like 'Attack' Watchdog or, you know, 'Play Dead' Possum, we've lost connection to ourselves as well as we've full- you know, fully gone into complete dysregulation, right?    

Robyn: And so then yes, of course, we would be out of connection with one another and, and then also out of connection with ourselves as we're, you know, in intense dysregulation. But the motivation or the precipice to the dysregulation- is that the right word precipice, I don't even know? It was motivated by connection to themselves. Does that makes sense? Really, really, really important for us to remember, again, regulated, connected kids who we feel safe, not a recipe. Connected kids, isn't what we're always aiming for. And also connected kids aren't joyfully compliant. In fact, cooperation and compliance aren't the same thing. Generally speaking, cooperation emerges from safety and connection. Whereas compliance emerges from a lack of safety or being in protection mode. This, again, isn't even always bad. Sometimes compliance is just necessary. But when we really, if we pause and think about when is compliance truly just necessary, there's a safety issue involved, right. And so it makes sense that compliance emerges from protection mode. It's a way to stay safe. But I'm going to go back to what my real point was here, which was that connected kids aren't joyfully compliant. We don't want to accidentally kind of conflate the two. Regulated and connected kids who feel safe, are going to grumble about doing chores that they don't want to do, or having to stop an activity that's fun that they don't want to stop. They don't want to brush their teeth and go to bed. And they might complain, or grumble, or protest or even kind of digging their heels for a little bit. Yeah, that's not cooperation. I get that. But that's, that's not what we're aiming- we're not aiming for constant joyful compliance. In fact, compliance, again, unless there's a safety issue, compliance isn't what we're aiming for. Right?    

Robyn: We're not aiming for kids who just always do what we want them to do. Now, I understand that might sound like a nice reprieve. And for a lot of you listening, things are so stressful, and there's so much tension, and so much conflict in your home. That yeah, a part of you is like, 'oh, no, I'd take compliance. Let's- compliance is fine. Right. Compliance would be is there really nice reprieve to like the constant tension.' And I really, really, really get that. And also, compliance, while it's something we can long for, because it would make everything much easier, it really truly isn't our goal long term. The goal is to help our kids develop the ability to regulate through frustration, so that they can have like a grumbling disappointed reaction to having to do something they don't want to do or having to stop something they do want to do, without threatening to hurt you or themselves. Right? In a moment of, 'ugghhh I hate emptying the dishwasher.' That child is actually staying connected to themselves. That's authentic, that's regulated. Y'all. I hate emptying the dishwasher. Like since I was a small, small, small child has been my most dreaded chore. I don't know why. Because it takes like 90 seconds, I do not know why I give so much energy to hating emptying the dishwasher. But I do hate to empty the dishwasher. And if I have to, I can not like empty the dishwasher and also empty the dishwasher. Right? That's me staying connected to myself. That's me being authentic with myself. That's me being regulated, that's me regulating through frustration or through a feeling that I don't like. And that's a super important life skill, regulating through frustration, regulating through something we don't like, regulating through those things doesn't mean we don't express the frustration, it just means that we express it, hopefully without hurting somebody, or hurting ourselves or hurting things. Right?    

Robyn: That same frustration might motivate your child to speak up for something that feels really unfair. And that might even happen in your family, maybe they always empty the dishwasher. And maybe they have a sibling who doesn't have a lot of chores. And maybe their sibling doesn't have a lot of chores, because you're consciously lowering the demands for that sibling. Because that's what that child needs in order for their stress level to match their stress tolerance, right? So maybe you do have two kids in the same home, and one does have more chores than the other. And maybe that's for a great reason. But even if that reason is great, that doesn't mean that your child with more chores, isn't going to still feel it as an injustice. And they're still going to grumble about it. They're allowed, they're allowed to have feelings that keep them connected and authentic to themselves. Now, I know sometimes when we start to spend a lot of energy talking about co-regulating through difficult feelings, it can leave us worried or wondering if we're raising humans, who aren't going to ever be able to just deal with problems, right? Like are kids always going to need this amount of support, or co-regulation are they always going to need to like over process everything and always feel like they're getting all their feelings seen and known. And I get that fear. Especially if you have a child who is needing, you know, a level of co-regulation that isn't kind of in line with maybe their same-age peers, right? If you have a child who's- you're really focusing on, you know, co-regulation and started to like, strengthen their stress response system, you might have a child who's needing a lot more co-regulation than other kids their age, you know, to kind of like navigate regular life, stressors, and it is easy to kind of fall into this trap of, 'oh my gosh, am I creating a monster here? Am I, you know, creating a child who is always going to need everybody to stop and pay attention to them when they're upset or hurt and offer all this co-regulation.' I get that. And if we're truly co-regulating, which means we have to be in our own our brain, we have to be in connection mode to truly co-regulate, then the opposite is true. And if we're really truly offering co-regulation, then our kids regulation circuitry is going to grow and strengthen- their resilience is going to grow and strengthen. They're going to- we can say some sciency things here first second. They're going to increase their myelination around their ventral vagus, right?    

Robyn: Co-regulation leads to regulation and also sorts of kinds of ways, it doesn't lead to kids who need constant co-regulation for the rest of their lives, you know, all the way up until adulthood. We do have to pay attention to, are we truly co -regulating them? Are we truly offering co-regulation from a connection standpoint from our own Owl brain, as opposed to maybe trying to get them to stop being so upset, which would really come more from protection mode, and either from a Watchdog or a Possum brain response. If we're not really truly co-regulating, but instead we're just trying to get them to not be upset, then we actually do run the risk of kids who need a lot of co-regulation to become adults, because they're not really getting the opportunity to strengthen their regulatory circuits if we're responding to their dysregulation with our dysregulation, does that make sense? But if we are truly responding, some of the time, right? Attachment research- and this is all related, shows that kids need us to be attuned, present, and co-regulating them about a third of the time. Okay, so we don't have to aim for perfection here by any means. And if we're, you know, attuning and offering co-regulation from our own place of regulation, some of the time, then our kids are going to develop into older kids, teenagers or adults who have stronger regulatory circuits. The more co-regulation they receive at home, the wider their window of stress tolerance grows, and the more they'll be able to navigate stress out in the quote-unquote, real world.    

Robyn: Alright, let's summarize and go back to the very beginning here. are connected kids always cooperative? No, of course not. We have to expand the definition of connected first of all, right? Connected to us? Connected to themselves? And they're not gonna always be the same. For our kids to become their own humans. They can't be connected to us and connected to themselves at the same time, because we're not the same people. So connected kids means also connected to themselves. And it's just, you know, we can't tease all of this out, because in order for our kids to be safe enough to prioritize being connected to themselves over being connected to you, it means that they trust your relationship, and that the relationship will be okay as they individuate. That we can be in relationship and be in a safe, connected, relationship and not be the same. So at all just ebbs and flows and works together for our kids to feel safe enough that they can prioritize safety to themselves, as opposed to safety to us, they have to feel safe enough with us. Alright.    

Robyn: I'm not telling you not to notice any of your kid's cues and clues as possible signs that they aren't feeling connected to you. So if you have a child who seems like they're in protection mode, get curious about their sense of connection to you. And sometimes our kids are in protection mode, because they aren't feeling connected to us in that moment or they're not feeling connected to us overall. And that might actually be something we want to pay attention to, or we want to tend to. Sometimes giving energy to intentionally strengthen our connection to our kids, as evidenced by them feeling a little more protection mode, a little more uncooperative than usual. Sometimes it's exactly what we need to do something I think about a lot with my own kid, right? That if I'm noticing some, kind of- not just with my own kid, but with my partner and with my friends, right? Like I'm noticing a little more like friction in our relationship or I'm noticing maybe just a little bit more dysregulation in that person. If I'm in my Owl brain, one of the things I do ask myself is how's our connection? Has our connection been a little less reliable or a little less dependable lately because that could cause some dysregulation, and that could be underneath, you know, some of this tension or some of this friction.    

Robyn: So please don't do hear this episode as me saying, you know, never examine if your kid's signs of dysregulation are maybe related to them feeling that they're not as connected to you as they are really longing to be. Right? What I'm telling you is not to expect that prioritizing regulation, connection and, felt safety is going to lead to a child who's always cooperative. Because remember, this way of parenting isn't just another behavior management tool. We're not parenting in this way. Because we are looking for another tool to change our kids behavior. I know that that's a nice byproduct. And I know that you are really longing to change your kids behavior, because it is making life so hard or so uncomfortable, I get that. And we're choosing to parent this way or be in relationship in this way, not just because of wanting to change behavior, we're choosing to be in relationship with this way because we want our kids to be themselves, we want our kids to feel safe being them, we want our kids to have more ease, we want them to feel more regulated, more connected, and more safe. This way of parenting is prioritizing our kids humanity, especially our kids who have had their humanity violated in the past, either from abuse, or neglect, or abandonment, or loss, or from a society that hasn't made space, and doesn't honor and recognize their uniqueness. And actually does the opposite, right? Like actually pathologizes their very existence. And so we parent in this way, to give our kids a different experience to recognize their humanity, right? Not punish them for their humanity, and sort of take away from their humanity.    

Robyn: So really, what I'm saying here is just like everything, there's the 'both, and'. That connection is likely to increase cooperation. But also that connection gives our kids permission to be themselves, and therefore to be uncooperative. And sometimes, 'connection' means connection to themselves, which will mean being uncooperative in the face of something that kind of violates their core values. So it's complicated. Again, regulated, connected kids who feel safe, is not a recipe. It is a way to go backwards and be curious. And when our kids are struggling to ask ourselves, can I offer regulation, can I offer connection, can I offer felt safety? Not because I want to change their behavior, but because I want to support their nervous system shifting into connection mode, knowing that when our kids are in connection mode, they have more opportunities to be their real, true selves. And that's beautiful and wonderful and precious, and exactly what we want them to be and feel.    

Robyn: Alright, y'all, thank you for tuning in, once again, to The Baffling Behavior Show. It's always such an honor, such a privilege to sit behind the mic, know that you're going to spend your time listening, connecting with me, connecting with yourself by connecting with me, knowing how many of you are out there in the world, really think about our kids through the lens of regulation, connection, and felt safety, and really thinking about ourselves, thinking about being human, through the lens of regulation, and connection, and felt safety. We're doing something really hard. We're doing something really important and we're doing it together!   

Robyn: If you are in need of more support more resources, you're going to want to go to robyngobbel.com because it's full of resources. Okay, on my podcast page, you can search the podcast for any topic. On my free resources page, there is just an abundance of resources that you can access or download for free videos, webinars, ebooks, infographics, all sorts of goodness, so head to robyngobbel.com. Click around, see what can be helpful to you. And of course, if you are in a space where you could use even more connection, more co-regulation, more support and contact with me- like one-on-one contact with me. You might want to consider joining us over in The Club. The Club isn't always open for new members which you can find out if we are at robyngobbel.com/theclub and if we're not open today, you can put your name on a waiting list and I will let you know when we are open. Alright y'all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being you, for prioritizing you, for prioritizing your kids. I will see you back here next week!