Robyn: So I spoke at a conference last week in Kansas, and it was a conference that was geared towards foster and adoptive families, especially foster families, there's lots of foster families attending. And I spoke nonstop for two days. Thursday, I did a five hour pre conference workshop, all about playfulness. And pre conference workshops tend to be a little bit smaller than conferences. So I think there was about 130 people in attendance, we, you know, got to have some nice connection and interaction with the audience with everybody that was attending. And then on Friday, I basically was speaking, constantly, I began with a, kind of, opening keynote, and then gave three separate workshops. So there was a lot going on those two days, and I had a lot on my mind preparing for those two days, it's one thing to go somewhere and speak for two days in a row, but to speak with five different topics, five different objectives, five different, like beginnings, middles, and ends. It's a lot to prepare, and it's a lot to hold in mind. So going into conference, I was pretty preoccupied just with that, like, just with the job that I was showing up to do. In the pre-conference workshop on Thursday. I didn't know this until later in the day, but there's a woman in the audience. In fact, she was sitting right up front, there's a women in the audience who did not know who I was. And also foster care or adoption- working with kids with complex trauma wasn't really her area of expertise, her her scope of practice. She attended because a family member of hers was involved in the conference planning. And she didn't used to live close enough to attend the conference and this year lives close enough to attend to the conference- and that's how she showed up and the reason I'm even giving you all that information is because it does feel kind of important and relevant that this lovely woman really came in with no like preconceived ideas or pretenses or expectations for the day or for what, or how I was going to present, she didn't. She didn't know me at all. She's a very seasoned psychotherapist has been doing this work for for decades.  

Robyn: At the end of the day, we had a little time for us to kind of sit down and just chat colleague-to-colleague, and she gave me some really interesting thing reflections, like she held up a mirror for me, and kind of pointed out or articulated some ways, she noticed that I connected with the audience that she found noteworthy. So y'all, it's always nice to get reflection from folks. And I work really hard to give other people the accurate reflection that they need. And it's always nice to get that from other folks. So I just, I really appreciated that, again, especially coming from somebody who had no expectations of me, no pretenses, she had no idea who I was, and just showed up, because a relative was, you know, helping to plan- plan the conference. What she reflected back to me feels so important to share with y'all again, those of you who are professionals, and you are out in the world helping kids and parents with these intensely vulnerable nervous systems, this- these complex trauma histories and the attachment trauma that comes along with foster care and adoption. But also, I thought her reflections were really important things for parents to actually hear. So what she said to me, and kind of like the little nuances of my teaching style, she said things like, 'Well, you just showed up as you like, you are totally authentic. And when you didn't know an answer to a question you said, I don't know. That's a great question.'  

Robyn: It was so fascinating to hear these reflections because I really can't even imagine presenting in any other way. But she was so clear that she found this to be quite unusual, from, you know, from a speaker, for a presenter. And really what I heard her say more than anything, was that she observed that I, kind of, show up on stage, in a position of authority, yet, what she experienced was my like, deep core resonance commitment to showing up in front of an audience, in front of an audience who has given me, kind of, the gift of their time, and attention, right? I take that super seriously. And I want to be with these folks and connect with these folks, not as an expert. But as a collaborator. I want to connect with folks who show up and give their time and their attention. I want to join their journey, not tell them where to go on their journey. And it is absolutely true that I have this unique privilege in the world where I have made a job or career out of studying and learning and synthesizing that information, and giving that information back to the folks who don't have the privilege of having that kind of time or interest. You know, that- as well as the kind of ability to take the science and the theory that I'm studying, and turn it into practical information, right? Because most theorists are, indeed that- they're theorists, they're not clinicians, right? They offer us their theory and bless us to take that theory out in the world and make it useful, you know, make it impact people, right? That's what theorists want. It's just not their role, in the- in the whole experience. And so, I have developed a knack for that, right? Like I get to deeply study the science and combine that with my, you know, kind of boots-on-the-ground, in the trenches experience with kids and families, and then show up in a way that allows me to offer some ideas, and offer those ideas as a collaborator, not as an expert, because the truth is, I know nothing about you, or your kid. 

Robyn: I know, that you know, everything about you, and also a lot about your kid. And here's the clincher. And for my professionals listening, I want you to really hear this part. I know that the parents know them, and their kid, way better than I ever could. And I believe them. I have absolute complete trust. And you, the parents, being your expert, I believe what parents are saying when they come to me, and sometimes they say that with words with sometimes they say that with their energy or their behaviors, really just like kids, right? And I wrote about that in Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors that there was kind of a point in my career as a play therapist, where I had this real clear epiphany, like, the kids are telling us exactly what's going on with them. They're telling us exactly what they need, and they're telling us exactly what they're capable of managing. It's our job to believe them, like to really, really, truly believe them, not just believe them enough so that we can make a relationship with them, and then get them to do something different, but but to actually really, truly believe them. And I feel that exact same way, about the parents that I work with. And I think this is what this lovely woman was attempting to convey to me as she talked about and used the word humility a lot. I think what she was was describing, was that when I show up to teach, or when I show up in the club, or in being with, I show up was just so much curiosity, you know, show up with an awareness of, I have something to offer here. That's what I've been hired to do, I have something to offer here. But I don't know your kid. And I know that you do! The art of doing this work isn't about getting parents to trust me. It's about me constantly reminding myself that my job is to trust you, my job is to trust the parent. And this absolutely applies to the professionals I work with, as well, I do so much professional training, that my job is to trust them. And then my job is to teach them how to just implicitly trust the person in front of them. That our clients are ones who should be wary of trusting us, because we're total strangers, and most of them have been really, really let down if not, you know, outright betrayed by providers.  

Robyn: My job is to trust them. And like, to even to trust their weariness, trust their reticence, trust everything that they're bringing to me- that all of it makes sense, just like you hear me say over and over and over about the kids, right? That all behavior makes sense. And I want to trust them, and I want to hear what they're saying. And when they tell me, you know what's going on with them, and what they can do, even if they're not telling me those words, I want to believe them. And I bring that same belief to my work with the grownups. Now I'm not saying, in no way shape or form have always done this, like this was a decade's long learning experience of really dropping the need to be seen as the expert, to be seen as smart, to be seen as the person who knows a lot of stuff. Because that no longer is terribly interesting to me. I just don't have that need anymore. I can say, I have no idea, when someone asks me a question. And I can turn that over to the audience and say does anybody have any ideas about this or have any thoughts about this? And that doesn't stress me out, it is fine with me that I don't know, like, how could I possibly know, all the things? I simply just couldn't. Now, again, to be clear, there's a point in my career where that was impossible for me to wrap my mind around. And it's created so much anxiety in me, so much burnout. So it decreased my ability to really show up and do the work that was needed to be done, because I had this idea that I was supposed to be able to solve people's problems and answer all their questions, which is completely impossible. And so once I learned to kind of be okay with that, that's when, you know, I think this quality that this woman was describing, about being authentic and being humble, you think that's the part of me she was attempting to describe. Now, why am I making a podcast episode about this? Because we need more people to show up with parents this way. And that's what these parents need y'all. Like, absolutely, they want to walk away from a training with us, or a session with us, with some sense of hope, which tends to mean some sort of actionable idea that they can do. But teaching those things isn't the hard part. That's actually the easy part. What they want to walk away with, even more than that, is feeling seen, right? Feeling not judged, feeling welcomed. And that y'all, as professionals is a skill we can grow, and really, really practice cultivating. And I'd say that that is a way more important skill to practice cultivating than learning tools, and techniques. 

Robyn: The truth is, is most of us can learn the tools and techniques from reading books, from YouTube videos, like there's just no shortage of people giving out tools and techniques. And that's true for us as professionals. And it's also true for parents, right? And so, as much as it feels like that's what folks want when they come to us. And sure, of course, folks want to come to us feeling like we have some ideas about how to help them. But y'all, the very unique, specific population that I've been working with, since, you know, even before I left graduate school, and the parents of the most struggling kids, the parents of the kids that other professionals are just saying, I don't know how to help you. Those parents, of course, they're longing for us to give them some tools and techniques. Of course, of course, of course. But actually, my experience has been that those parents are longing to be believed. They're longing to be seen. And they're longing to be valuable enough that we don't give up on them, which I think directly relates to this next piece of feedback or reflection that this therapist who didn't know me at all kind of offered up to me at the end of the day. She's said she noticed, and again, she doesn't work with parents of kids with complex trauma. This is not her area of expertise. So she said, she really noticed how over and over and over and over again, I reminded everybody, 'Listen, I'm going to tell you these ideas, I'm going to tell you these things, did you and you're not really going to be able to do them. Right? Because this is impossible, right? These are impossible tasks. Right? And so there's lots of great ideas. There's lots of, there's lots of great theory about how to be with kids who are really dysregulated. And the reality is,it's almost impossible to do that because we because dysregulation is contagious.'  

Robyn: And so over and over and over again. I just kept saying aim for 1% better. Aim for 1% better, right? Don't leave here, thinking that you're going to implement all these ideas. Don't leave here thinking that you're going to be able to, you know, match the energy but not the dysregulation, or lean in to the dysregulated, kind of big gross motor movement and lean into that with, you know, co-organization of that movement to shift into play and playfulness. Don't leave here thinking that simply because you took a five hour training, you are now going to be able to always withstand your child's rejection of playfulness, you are going to still offer playful moments and your child is still going to reject them. And most of the time, that's going to really hurt you and you're not going to keep going, you know, with pursuits of connection. And I get that, because you're just as human as the rest of us. Right? We're just aiming for 1%. 1% better. 1% better, maybe 1% more? Can we not retreat with feelings of rejection when our kids kind of thwart our attempts at playfulness? Maybe 1% more of the time, can we look for ways to instead of stopping dysregulation, kind of forcefully, in some way, shutting it down? Or saying, this has to stop, or yelling are using threats or consequences? Right? Can we look for ways to lean in and co-organize that dysregulation? And can- again, can we aim to do that? Maybe 1% More than we did before coming to this workshop. That's it, y'all. That's what I want parents to hear from me that when they signed up for this journey, they did not relinquish their humanity. And our parents that we work with, are as precious and have as sensitized stress response systems, as the kids that we work with. And they want to do different, they want to parent different, they want to feel better, you know, I know all of y'all listening are like, yes, yes, yes, we want to do all those things. But wanting to do them and being actually able to do them are not the same thing. I mean, I have a whole chapter in my book about that, I actually kind of have a whole section in my book about that, right? Like, why, knowing what to do, is, isn't even half the battle, that's such a miniscule part of it, is getting the information. Just like that's the smallest part of our kids journey.  

Robyn: Most of our kids know what behavior is kind of quote-unquote, right versus wrong. That's not the problem. The problem isn't that they they don't know. Right? This is all about dysregulation, and connection, and felt safety. And the same is true with the parents we work with. And they did not relinquish their humanity, when they decided that this was the journey that they wanted to take. So if you're listening to this podcast, as a helper, I'm going to invite you to just consider how you're letting the parents that you work with know, that you know what you're asking them to do as parents is indeed mostly impossible, right? Like, stay regulated in the face of intense dysregulation, or not get triggered by lying or disrespectful behavior. Like, those things are so hard. And it really literally would be impossible to always stay regulated, to never get triggered. That is literally an impossibility. What I'm asking parents to do, and professionals, what I want you to ask yourself, is do the parents you work with know that this is what you're asking them to do, is not to do this with any level of perfection, but to just try. To just try to keep those x-ray vision goggles on, to just try to see below behavior, to just try to respond to dysregulation in a slightly different way than just jumping in and drowning with our kids in that dysregulation. And I'm not asking people to do something that is impossible because I'm setting them up for an impossible task. That's not it at all. I'm asking parents to do the impossible because it is what our kids need. But they don't need it all the time. And even if they did, we don't need to give it to them all the time. Because that's not possible, and we get to still be human. A little over a year ago, probably about a year and a half ago, I did a series on neuroimmune disorders. And part two of this three part series was me interviewing my husband. And then part three of the series was me kind of reflecting on loving somebody with such a vulnerable nervous system and these big, baffling behaviors. And I went and kind of looked at that episode, briefly, as I was prepping for this episode, and remembered how my husband, Ed and I talked about this very thing, that we can want to respond to our dysregulated loved ones differently. And we can try to do it. And we will succeed very infrequently, very infrequently. In fact, on that podcast episode, I'll make sure it gets linked to in the show notes. The episode with my husband is episode 98. And the neuroimmune disorder series, it's a three part series is Episode 97, 98, and 99. So I'll link it to you, or you can just scroll back, and your podcast app.  

Robyn: But in the episode, my husband gave me a grade of responding to him well in moments of really intense dysregulation, an F plus. That's the grade he gave me. And we giggled about that. And I admitted that that's probably quite accurate. Right, and that, if I was to give myself like a percentage of time in which I respond to his dysregulation in the way that I- I know I should. And the way that I coach others to, and the way that I know changes the brain, and the body, and the nervous system- the way that I know his humaneness, his dignity, deserves to be responded to, because even though his behavior might be very bad, his behavior is simply just a symptom. Right? And his dignity, his humaneness deserves, that I see through that and see his his humaneness. And how often do I do that? Well, it gave me a grade of F plus. And I said, you know, I'm not sure that I do that successfully, more than 5% of the time. But y'all, that's better than 4%. And he agreed. So, if you're listening to this episode, as a professional, I want you to really, really, really hear me say, you don't need to know all the answers. Parents don't need you to know everything. Parents needs you to trust them, to believe them, and to not abandon them when you don't know what to do next. Now that's very different than knowing when it's time to refer out because an if a situation is outside your scope of practice, that's very different than just saying, I don't know what to do best of luck to you, I can't help you anymore. I mean, this really goes for all of your clients, but I'm thinking specifically about parents. And if you're listening as a parent, I just want you to hear me say overtly, specifically, concretely, I want you to hear the words- I trust you. I believe you. I know that I couldn't possibly know what it's like to be you. Because I'm not you.  

Robyn: I do know what it's like to be in close, close relationship with somebody with extremely intense dysregulation and extremely baffling behaviors, and to feel scared and helpless and hopeless and to know that there's nobody out there to help. Right? I do know that. And I also do have a very unique area of expertise. And I happen to be pretty good at translating pretty heavy science into practical use so that we can have more compassion for our kids and ourselves. But I don't know you and I don't know your kid. And even if we'd worked together for years and years and years, and maybe some of you listening, we have worked together for years and years and years. I don't know. But even if we'd worked together for that long, I still wouldn't know you the way you know you, I still don't know your kid the way you know your kid, or the certainly the way your kid knows themselves, right? Me and you, we get to come together, and I offer you what I can. And then you get to take what you know about yourself and your kid and bring those things together. I'm not promising answers. If they existed, you wouldn't even be listening to this because you would have found them by now. And you would have implemented them and they would have worked. And you would be listening to like true crime podcasts or whatever it is that you enjoy as like a leisure experience, instead of parenting podcasts about the brain. Right? You know, the things that I say, behind my microphone in my cozy little office, are things that you might be able to implement, but also they might not be, they might be things that could be helpful if you did implement, but also, they might not be. Right? If I get it right 5% of the time with my husband, that's better than 4%.  

Robyn: Y'all, this is my job, like my literal job, all I do all day long is study this information and help folks understand the information and implement it and integrate it, right, it's my literal job. And my husband still gives me an F plus at implementing it every day! So if you think about that, maybe hopefully, what you're noticing is that you're doing pretty great, like really great. We've been tasked something impossible. And we just keep trying. I have had countless adults sit with me, in the therapy experience. And tell me some ways in some ways, they can't really articulate this word for word. And in other ways, they sort of get this across in different kinds of ways. But essentially, they tell me, they communicate to me that if their parent, even if their parent who would have never been able to change- because I worked with parents, I worked with adults with the same kind of histories as the kids that I work with. So the adults that I work with have pretty significant histories of complex trauma themselves. Right? And so they would express to me that even if their parent had never been able to do anything different, ever been able to behave differently, ever been able to parent differently, if they had known that their parent was trying, if they had known that their parent was doing something like listening to a parenting podcast, or learning about what was going on for them. If they had ever thought that their parent even notice that there were things in their relationship that maybe could go a little bit better, or there were things in parenting that their parents struggled with, right? What they've told me is that, if their parent had even noticed those things, even if they were never able to change them, but just simply had awareness of them, that that would have changed so much for them, like so much for them. And that makes perfect sense with what I understand about relational neuroscience, because that's the difference between seen and unseen. So, of course, if you're listening to this podcast, you're trying to do some things differently. You're trying to parent, a child that has a very vulnerable nervous system, you're trying to parent them a little differently, there's no other reason for you to be listening to this podcast. So you've got that part. And if you're doing 1% better than you were before, awesome. And then next you can infer 1% better again, and then 1% better again, and then you'll probably backslide, a couple percents, and then you'll aim for 1% better again, right? And, that's what we can offer our kids, because that's all we can offer our kids, because we did not check our humanity at the door when we became their parents. I really, really, really believe that the vast majority of professionals want to embody this way of being in their professional role, whatever that is, mental health therapist, educator, doctor, or whatever their role is. I really believe that they want to embody this approach and this way of being with their clients. It's just that the way that we've been schooled, and our experience in academia, and how the field of mental health has attempted to create this hierarchy, between professional and client, right, that there's all these barriers that are, that are in the way that are keeping professionals from showing up with their clients in the way that they really are longing to. 

Robyn: And isn't my, you know, job responsibility to give you, quote-unquote, permission, like I'm not powerful like that. But if it helps you to hear me say, 'It's okay to be you, it's okay to believe your client, it's okay to show up with humility. It's okay to show up in a way, where you admit and acknowledge you don't know all the answers.' If this episode helps even the tiniest portion of everybody listening, then I'm really glad that I went off my agenda, I'm really glad that I went off my schedule. I am so grateful for this wonderful human that I met at this conference. And I'm so grateful for her knowingness of the importance of giving a mirror, giving accurate reflection to somebody who is standing on a stage, right? That those of us I mean- there's a literal, like attempt at creating a position of power, like by elevating me and putting me up on the stage. That if that this woman in the audience knew that I also needed a mirror, needed some accurate reflection. And she took the time to do that. And I'm just so- if you happen to listen to this episode, so grateful to have met you, I'm so grateful to have chatted with you. And I'm so grateful to continue this relationship and sort of see how it unfolds. Because y'all, were in touch now, we're texting one another. And that's really fun.  

Robyn: As always, y'all I'm so grateful for you. So grateful that you keep pressing play, grateful to every single one of those parents that showed up at that conference last week. I'm grateful for their guts. I'm grateful for their tenacity. I'm grateful that even in the moments of their deepest, darkest, despair, of feeling like I cannot go on like this, they found a little something, they found a little something that got them in the car, and got them to that conference. And allowed us, the folks, you know, who put on the conference or the folks who were speaking at the conference, allowed us the great privilege of seeing you, of caring for you, for showing you that you're worth it, for showing you that we couldn't possibly get it. But that we do indeed want to keep trying. So thank you, thank you to all of you, thank you to all my professionals who listen, and are working fearlessly and tirelessly to be somebody who is supportive of families, of kids with such vulnerability, and their kids nervous systems and in their families. So thank you, of course, everybody. I will see you back next week. Well, actually, we are in a stage of the podcast, where I'm experimenting with releasing a new episode on Tuesday, like always, and releasing a replay on Fridays. So actually, there will be another episode that drops on Friday. And then next week, Tuesday, I will of course be back with another new episode. Alright y'all, thank you so much. Bye bye!