Felt Safety (Outside) – Part 2 {EP 162}

Robyn: So in last week's episode, it was number one of this three part series on felt safety. And in that episode I went over what felt safety really is, some of the common misconceptions and felt safety. And then we explored in depth felt safety cues that we get from our inner worlds, from our internal experience. So head back to that episode, for that topic specifically, felt safety from the inside that actually is the one that gets overlooked the most when we're thinking about felt safety. So it's a pretty important one. I'm gonna give you just a brief summary about what felt safety is, and why I'm doing this big series about it. Like what are some of the misconceptions about felt safety? Felt safety is a language that's used to describe the subjective experience of safety that someone is having, that they're experiencing based on cues that they're receiving from inside their bodies, from the external environment, and from their relational experience. Deb Dana, who is a clinician who's really known for taking polyvagal theory and helping to translate it for regular folks like me and you. She uses the language, inside, outside, in-between and that's the language that I also use in my book. There's some pretty big misconceptions about felt safety and the only reason it matters is because it makes it hard for us to have a conversation about felt safety if we're not all talking about it the same way. And I talk about felt safety so much, that if we're not all in agreement about what felt safety means that can get a little bit tricky. So often people kind of conflate the concept of felt safety with relational safety. And so when I started to talk about felt safety, folks can feel a little, I don't know, what's the right word, a little defensive, like I'm suggesting that there's something wrong with the relational experience or that they're doing something wrong. And first of all, I'd never talk like that, nobody's ever doing anything right or wrong, there's always things we could be more aware of. And that includes the safety that we're offering inside our relationships, that doesn't make anyone doing anything wrong, necessarily. But even more than that, felt safety is just much broader than that. It isn't only about the relational experience, it's about cues of safety that are happening in our internal worlds as well, illness, having to go to the bathroom, all sorts of things I talked about that last week. And yes of course, there is an aspect of felt safety that is about relational safety. We're gonna talk about that next week!  

Robyn: This week, we are going to talk about felt safety, cues of safety that we are able to experience or receive from the environment from the outer world. Now one more thing before we really dive in the science of felt safety, how that's actually determined based on the data that we're getting from the world. You know, what we're neurocieving, how we make these types of interpretations, I actually go into that in a pretty old podcast episode called, 'Connection or Protection,' way back at the very beginning of the podcast, I'll make sure that there is a link to it in the show notes. If this is kind of your first time hearing that language, connection or protection, or how the nervous system shifts in and out of these two different states connection or protection, I do suggest going back to that episode when you are finished with this one. And then of course, if you want to dive even deeper into the science of safety, you can grab a copy of Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, which was released in September of 2023. And the audio version of Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors was released January 18th 2024. So lots of ways you can access that book. Alright, cues of safety, that are coming from the outside, coming from the external world. So not inside our own bodies and not in the relational experience. Although yes, that is in the external world. But that goes in another category. We're going to talk about the external world. And the things I'm going to specifically talk about in this week's episode are cues of safety from the environment, cues of safety from the sensory world, which yes, if you really kind of speak sensory language, you know that those things can't be, you know, untangled and the environment and the sensory world are essentially the same thing. But there's a couple things I want to say about them uniquely. So I'm separating out the environment. I'm separating out the sensory world. And then I'm also going to talk specifically about structure and predictability. And then we'll talk a bit about environmental demands. So as we started talking about the environment, let's remember that felt safety is not only about physical safety, that there are many aspects of our environment that are sending cues of safety or not, and that really don't have anything to do with physical safety, per se.  

Robyn: Why is this important? Why are we getting into the nitty gritty of this? Because if if you have a child who regularly seems to be in protective mode, right, they're regularly down the Watchdog or the Possum pathway. And we're trying to brainstorm why right? We want to get out of behavior, whack-a-mole and just responding to behaviors. And we want to get curious about why what's what's happening, that's leaving this individual vulnerable to shifting quickly or staying for a long time, on their protective pathway. And if some of those things have to do with felt safety, they might be some things that we can tweak. And especially- I feels- like for the most part this is, I'm sure not totally true across the board. But environmental cues of safety or danger can be pretty low hanging fruit, meaning there is a lot of parts of our kids in our world, a lot of parts of our kids experience on the planet that we really can't control. But there might be some environmental things that we could make an impact on. Again, it's kind of low hanging fruit, and might then help increase the size of their window of tolerance, decrease some of that sensitivity or vulnerability in their nervous system. So even if it feels like your child has stressors that aren't related to the environment at all, if we can help the environments be a place where our kids are experiencing a lot of safety from, that's only going to increase their ability to navigate challenges and other aspects of their lives, places that we might not be able to have a lot of impact on. So again, obviously, there's, you know, objectively unsafe environments that are going to be considered cues of danger. Think about kids who, you know, live in places where there's actual danger happening, whether that be you know, trauma, abuse, neglect, not having their needs met or cared for, being presense with violence, not having anybody care for them at all, are these are all going to be environmental cues of danger. And they're pretty easy to identify, or at least understand why they are cues of danger. And then we also want to remember that there can be things in our current environments that aren't objectively dangerous, but are awakening memories where those things in the environment were dangerous, if so, very, you know, easy example is, if I was in a car accident, and hit by a red car, I might experience in- in the future, in my here and now, right? Red cars as dangerous. Now, red cars aren't objectively dangerous, but because in my experience, and in my memory networks, red cars were linked with danger, then that is going to be an environmental cue of danger.   

Robyn: So a couple things to think about here. One is be super open and curious about that. Think about your child's unique history. Think about some of the more stressful times of their histories, think about if your child has a history of trauma, some of those traumatic experiences. And imagine for a moment what may have been occurring in the environment during those experiences. I mean, it really could be things like maybe the phone rang, right? It maybe it was dark out, like there's so many- like such a huge, wide variety of potential of environmental cues that aren't objectively dangerous, but we're experienced at the same time as danger was in the past and now those environmental cues are felt as dangerous. So be open to that, be exploring that, see what you can do to kind of piece together that story if possible. And of course, a lot of you listening, that feels like an impossible task, like maybe your child experienced danger in their pre-verbal years of life, right? And so they can't give you a narrative or they can't tell you about it. Even if they were verbal, right? Even if there was a traumatic experience that happened when they were seven years old. There's probably a lot of that experience that hasn't been included in the narrative, right? Because there's so many things that are happening when I retell a story or I tell somebody about something that happened to me. There's a lot of pieces that are getting left out. So they're very likely our cues of danger that we're just really not aware to. We had to kind of put our detective hats on, look for themes, or like I've known families who have realized that one of their child's teachers, maybe it was a paraprofessional, was wearing a scent- a perfume or a shampoo, I don't remember the details, but a scent, that was a trigger- an environmental trigger from a time in their lives that was dangerous. And there's so many things that could be like the color of clothes, it could be what somebody looks like, it could be sound, it could even be ambient sounds that we're not really even paying that close attention to. So my number one suggestion is be a detective, be really curious if you notice any themes. And when you're looking for themes, right? Try to really open up your perspective on like, what you're actually noticing. Meaning there's just so many things that we don't even pay attention to and we forget is still, you know, sensory stimulation, like maybe your kid is at school and there's a common school sound that we wouldn't even think about, like, you know, the teacher picking up their keys, or, you know, something like that.  

Robyn: So in kind of direct contradiction to me telling you to be a detective, is the other side of this which is sometimes we just have to jump off the trigger train, that we can really tie ourselves into absolute knots, obsessively looking for the trigger. It can be helpful without question, to figure out what a trigger is because we might be able to adjust it and we might be able to prevent our children from, you know, getting those evocative cues that are popping them into protection mode, very helpful. And there comes a point where we have to remember and I talked about this in connection versus protection, that episode. And I talked about this in my book as well, that in every unfolding moment, we're all taking in and processing 11 million bits of data. And the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of it is all unconscious. There's so much unconscious data that we're constantly processing, that could be a cue of danger. And there comes a point where we have to acknowledge that we couldn't possibly be aware of all the potential cues. But what we can do is trust the nervous system. And so if you have a child whose behaviors are clearly in protection mode, right? We want to make sure we're not saying something like, but nothing's dangerous. Surely it might be true, that from the outside looking in, there's nothing to identify as objectively dangerous. But when the nervous system is in protection mode that's kind of all we need to know about the fact that, that person is indeed neuroceiving danger. So sometimes there comes a point where we just have to trust the nervous system. Sometimes I'll say something like, when our children are telling us that they're not safe, it's our job to believe them and telling quote-unquote, telling us rarely looks like them saying I don't feel safe, their behaviors tell us that they're not feeling safe.  

Robyn: Okay, so that's the environment part of this episode, let's talk about in the environments, get a little more specific here and talk about the sensory world or sensory cues or sensory triggers. Quick review- our five external senses are sight, and sound, and smell, our olfactory sense, touch, and taste. Now, any of those could be an evocative cue of danger, something that was experienced as dangerous in the past, or was experienced at the same time is danger in the past and now is experienced this nervous system is danger, because they got tied together. Right? That's my red car example, when we were talking about the environment just a second ago. But also sensory experiences can be experienced as unsafe, they can be cues of danger if there are too much or too little sensory experiences, sensory data, sensory information, based on that individual's unique sensory thresholds. And also, this isn't consistent. One of my cues and clues that I'm getting really stressed out, is that all of the sudden, it feels all of a sudden at least, auditory cues, auditory information, sound overwhelms me. And that isn't a common for me. That's not con- I guess the word is consistent. I'm not always overwhelmed by auditory cues and auditory data in fact I- in general, am not overwhelmed by sound. I live in a very loud family, there's only three of us, we're all exceptionally loud people, we are big people, the three of us make a lot of noise. And generally speaking, that's wonderful. If anything, it regulates my nervous system. But when I start to get really overwhelmed by sound, or I want to tell people like, you have to stop talking, or when I feel like all the noise needs to get turned off, right, we got to turn off the music, we've got to, you know, everything just needs to stop. That's a really big cue for me that I am really stressed out. So I'm already probably in protection mode, my window of tolerance is small. And now auditory information becomes additional cues of danger, my threshold has changed. And now this auditory information is just simply too much. We all have unique sensory thresholds. And these five categories. And I think actually, the most helpful thing to do initially, is think about your sensory preferences in all of the different categories, sight, sound, smell, touch and taste. What do you like? What do you not like? What do you gravitate towards? What do you not gravitate towards? That's giving you information about your sensory preferences and your sensory threshold. And if we think about it in ourselves, first, it can then help us then think about it through the lens of our kids.  

Robyn: Now, if you are listening, and you're a member of a club, I actually have a video in the video library that goes through all of the different sensory categories, right sight, sound, touch all of those, all of those. And we look at it through the lens of both like, at home and at school, common sensory experiences where your kid based on their own unique sensory preferences might be experiencing too much, or too little. So if you're in the club, and you want to dive a little deeper into that, head to the video library, if you're not sure what video that is, ask, and we will direct you to it. So the two things I really want you to take away from this aspect of external cues outside cues, is that we all have different sensory thresholds, and can move between too much sensory data or too little sensory data could be sending cues of danger and leaving us in protection mode. And also that they are not consistent that they can change. So if you have a kid who seems pretty stuck in protection mode, do a quick overview look at their environment, like what is their room? Like? Is it you know, what are the colors in it? How organized in it? Is it? What about the rest of your house? What does it smell like? What is your home smell? Like? What is their bedroom? Smell like? What does it sound like? Again, my house is very loud. And see if you can then, you know, look at some of these cues through the lens of, 'is it possible that any of this is actually too much, or too little for my child?' And then are there any adjustments that we could make to that? So again, if you're in the club, there's a whole video about that. Of course, also come talk to us about it in the forum. Also, for folks who are learning about some of the sensory stuff, you can check out the book by my friend and colleague, Marti Smith. She's an occupational therapist, and she's written the fabulous book, The Connected Therapist, which might give you some ways to start thinking about your child's sensory world through a slightly different lens. 

Robyn: Okay, so another aspect of our kid's environment and safety or not, is like their structure, routine and predictability. Generally speaking, the brain neuroceives the experience of not knowing what's about to happen next, as dangerous, okay. The brain is mostly interested in predicting what's about to happen next. Okay? It is one of the brain's primary jobs because it is a way- the primary way that we stay safe and out of danger, predicting what's about to happen next. And this helps us stay safe. But it also helps us in relational experiences, it helps us have like this fluid serve and return in relationships, you know that without even realizing it, we are making guesses about what's going to happen before it even happens when we are adjusting ourselves and adjusting our behavior, again, before it's even happened. So knowing what's about to happen next is very important to the brain. Think about that through the lens of what kind of information can you give your child about what's about to happen next. Whether that be in your routine in your family, your morning routine, your after school routine, bigger picture stuff, like what's happening tomorrow. It also can help us understand why social exchanges can be really hard for some kids if they are having a difficult time kind of guessing what's about to happen next in this social experience. So again, look for ways you can help your child know what's about to happen next. Again, generally speaking, increasing structure, increasing routine and increasing predictability helps with felt safety. Now, structure routine and predictability is not about rigidity. Generally speaking, rigidity is in response to feeling unsafe, rigidity as a cue of danger. Structure, routine, and predictability actually opens up the possibility of some flexibility. I have lots and lots and lots of examples of this in the book Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors. If you're in the club, you can check out the creating felt safety video, because there's some additional exploration of this concept in there. How can we look for ways to increase structure routine and predictability? And how can we do that, especially if we're not very structured people ourselves, I am not a very structured person myself. And I got real lucky in that my kid doesn't need a ton of structure. If he did, I would have to make some adjustments to how our lives unfolded so that he could have the structure routine and predictability that he needed for his as nervous system to feel safe and settled.  

Robyn: Okay, so just look through your life. Look at tiny micro-moments like the transition from waking up to going to the bathroom to, you know, having breakfast, look how much structure routine and predictability is in that with all small also being flexible, but also look at bigger picture stuff and the overall structure, routine, and predictability of your family or your child's schooling environment. My kid has been in several different kinds of schooling environments. One in particular was very loosey-goosey. There was very little structure, routine and predictability. He's been in another setting where there was an intense amount of structure, routine, and predictability. So that's going to vary just because humans vary and organizations vary and just take that information in when considering what could possibly be contributing to your child maybe tipping more towards protection mode.  

Robyn: Now, ironically enough, for some folks, too much structure, too much routine, too much predictability, actually could be interpreted as a demand, an environmental demand. And that could actually be experienced as a cue of danger. I see this both in the folks I know who have identify as having like a PDA, pathological demand avoidance profile. But this is also a very common experience for folks who have experienced complex trauma or relational trauma or just for whatever reason, their nervous system has spent more time in protection mode historically. That it is very common for those folks then to begin to experience environmental demands- structure, routine and predictability, the feeling that the environment is telling them what to do, right? That could be experienced as a cue of danger. So y'all, that brings me back to the core of what we talk about here, the core of relational neuroscience that there is a lot of tools that I can give you, there's a lot of things I can put in your toolbox. And I can really load you up on understanding things like felt safety, and what you might be looking for from the inner world, from the environment, from the relationship, you know, I can, I can really load you up with so much stuff. But the bottom line is that no two people are the same and nothing, nothing will overpower the need for relational attunement, that your child's might not need as much structure routine and predictability as another child does, because they experience all of that structure as demand as rigidity as someone else telling them what to do.  And as most of you listening already know, this is also not consistent across time, right? Like, maybe yesterday, your child needed a lot of structure, routine and predictability. But tomorrow, they don't. I wish our kids were completely predictable. I wish we were completely predictable. I wish the people we're in relationship with we're consistent, predictable, but we're just not. And so that then brings me back to the same idea, which is attunement over everything. Being with what's happening in the here and now. Yeah, yesterday. Maybe this one sensory experience wasn't overwhelming, but today it is. And we just have to believe that that's true. Yesterday, maybe your kid needed that much structure. But today, it's feeling overwhelming and like too many demands. And we have to just believe that it's true, that I know that it would be so much easier if we could say, well yesterday, or well last week, or in the past. Yeah, that would make things so much easier. And it's just really not how any human works.  

Robyn: Okay, so real quick review here. And then we'll look ahead to next week, we're looking at felt safety. Today's episode was about cues of safety or danger from the external world. And we talked about the environment. We talked about environmental cues that maybe were tagged in the past as something unsafe or dangerous. And so objectively speaking, you know, this, this environmental thing, like a red car doesn't seem dangerous by itself, but because of past experiences, it's being experienced as dangerous. Now, we also talked about our sensory thresholds and how the sensory world can be giving us too much or too little based on our own sensory thresholds. And that could be tipping us into protection mode. And we talked about structure routine and predictability and the importance of structure routine and predictability because the brain really likes to know what's about to happen. Next is one of its primary jobs. And then we talked about how sometimes too much structure routine and predictability is a cue of danger, also. Alright, so I'm going to start to bring this episode to a close with just a reminder that this varies. And everyone, right? Go back and listen to the episode, 'Connection Or Protection,' or pickup Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, to review how we're all always creating our own reality based on what's objectively happening in the here and now but also based on everything that has happened in our pasts. And none of us have identical pasts, right. So none of us are going to have the same cues of safety or cues of danger. It's so easy to project our own experience of safety on to others- totally normal, totally human. But when we understand more of the science of safety and how we're all creating our own experience of safety, it allows us to project less and be more curious about our kids or whoever we're in relationship with. Okay, so this is a three part series because felt safety is taking cues of danger or safety from three places. Inside, outside, or between. Last week we did inside, this week we did outside, next week we'll talk about between, that's the relational space and how our kids are taking in cues of danger or safety based on the relationship that they're in in that moment.  

Robyn: I am so so happy to be back with you here on the podcast and be sitting behind the microphone again and be imagining the folks all over the world who are tuning in, that creates such a sense of connection for me. But I also love imagining these connections between all of y'all who are listening to the podcast, I just think when we think about how things are going to change when we think about creating more safety, not just for our kids, but in the world. That is key imagining, and then creating these safe connections with folks all over the world, whether they're folks we ever meet or not. Thank you, thank you, as always for tuning into the show, for sharing it with your friends or your family or your colleagues, for wanting to show up in the world in a way that is cultivating more safety for you cultivating more safety for each other and for our kids. It really, really matters and I love that this is my job. I love that. I get to walk with you on this journey. So thank you so much and I will see you back here next week.