Robyn Gobbel: Well, hey there. Here we are, again, you and me. I tell you what, I totally love this. I mean, aren’t podcasts kind of amazing how a virtual stranger, that's me, can start to feel like they're a part of your life because you have them in your earbuds every week. I know I have podcasters that are- they're strangers, I don't know them. But I listen to what they're putting out into the world so often, that I start to feel like I have this personal connection to me, Like they become a part of me. I mean, like, the science of resonance and how we can internalize one another, even through a medium like podcasting is really unbelievable. I totally love it. So maybe this is your first episode. Or maybe you've listened to every single one, which we're getting close to 50, by the way. So welcome, or welcome back. I'm Robyn Gobbel. And you have stumbled onto the Parenting After Trauma podcast, where I take the science of being relationally, socially and behaviorally human and translate that for parents of kids who have experienced trauma. I'm a psychotherapist with over 15 years of experience working with kids who have experienced trauma and their families. I'm also a self diagnosed brain geek and relationship freak. I study the brain kinda obsessively and have even taught the signs of interpersonal neurobiology and a certificate program. I started this podcast on a whim with the intention to just get you free and accessible support like as fast as possible because I know there isn't even close to enough. And I also know there's a lot of professionals listening to my podcast. So, hey there. I also wanted to get this information to professionals as fast as possible because families need more professionals who can do more than just podcasts. Families need professionals who are in the trenches with them, in the room with them and understanding their kids and there's just not enough professionals. So this podcast isn't fancy. I wanted it to be as fast into your ears as possible. I do very little editing and you're likely going to hear cockadoodledoo in the background. If you love this episode, please add Parenting After Trauma to your favorite podcast player so we can hang out weekly. When this episode is over, you're going to want to head over to my website, because I have so many great resources for you. You'll definitely want to download my free ebook that I had created for you all about the brilliance of attachment. Readers have told me that not only is the ebook beautiful, but it teaches attachment in a completely new way. One that makes attachment understandable and completely shame free. So get the ebook at RobynGobbel.com/ebook.
Robyn: Today's episode, like all episodes, is sponsored by The Club, a virtual community of connection, co-regulation, and of course, a little education for parents of kids impacted by trauma. Now, what is so special about The Club? What's special about The Club is everyone who's in The Club. That The Club isn't just a place to receive a Club- The Club is a place to give, to offer, to hold space and energy, to be seen and to see. And that, y'all, that's the magic of The Club, the give and take, the way these members are showing up for one another and for themselves. I've honestly never seen anything like The Club. It is full of the most amazing parents and professionals. It's exceeded my wildest dreams just in a very short time The Club has been in existence. I mean the way these people show up for one another and, I know that a lot of y'all are listening, so the way that you all show up for one another is seriously like mind boggling to me sometimes. The Club opens for new members approximately every three months and we'll be opening our doors again the fall. Like it'll be the end of September, early October 2021. If you head over to RobynGobbel.com/TheClub, you'll be able to add yourself to the waiting list which means She'll just get notified as soon as The Club opens our doors again. And October through December in The Club, we'll be taking the concepts introduced on the podcast in this strengthening the foundation of the brain series. And we're going to make them actionable. Yes, the monthly masterclass, the learning and all the ways that we support one another in The Club is all going to center around practical ways to strengthen the foundation of the brain, in everyday moments in everyday life. And in The Club, we don't just think about our kids. I mean, yes, our kids is like, why we've come together in The Club. But in The Club, we think about ourselves, as well. And most of the families I know who are caring for kids with really big behaviors and caring for kids who have a history of trauma. Most of those families, the caregivers, the parents, honestly y’all, the therapists could use maybe their own support around regulating and organizing the foundation of their brain too. And in The Club, we do both. We talk about our kids, we talk about ourselves. And we're all, you know, a priority, because we need healthy parents, and we need healthy caregivers, and we need caregivers and parents, and therapists who also feel seen who also have a lot of strength and resilience in their nervous system in order to offer that to their children. So that's what we do in The Club, we'd love to have you. Keep your eye on the website. Put yourself on the waiting list. And we'll be welcoming new members end of September, early October.
Robyn: Okay, so that introduction became a lot longer than I anticipated. So hopefully you're still here. Before we go any further into this series, into this strengthening the foundation of the brain series. I- and I- and I promised I was a really great guest- guest- guest- guest- what am I trying to say here? I have some really great guests lined up and ready for you. And we're going to talk about theraplay, we're going to talk about occupational therapy, and we're gonna talk about equine therapy. So I have some really great guests who are coming to talk to you about all these different ways that we can help to strengthen the foundation of the brain. But before we go any further, let's just do a super quick review on what's happened so far in this series. So I kicked off this series two weeks ago, with a blog and a podcast about the importance of taking what I'm calling a neurodevelopmental approach with kids who have experienced early trauma or toxic stress, or really any experience that's impacted the development of the foundation of the brain, impacted the child like regulatory circuits of energy and arousal in their brain and body and nervous system. So we started there, and we just looked at like, what is a neurodevelopmental approach? What does that mean? And why is it important to strengthen the foundation of the brain? And also, why is it sometimes a little bit overlooked? So that was the first part of the series. And then last week, I had the great pleasure of interviewing Melissa Corkum, about the safe and sound protocol. Which- what let's- if I had to summarize that in one sentence, let's say it's a listening intervention that's been carefully created to offer the brain auditory experiences that can help to organize and kind of in a way like reset the autonomic nervous system, which is in the brainstem.
Robyn: So today, before we go into future episodes on theraplay, and occupational therapy, and equine therapy, let's talk just a little bit more about what are the kinds of experiences that helped to heal the brainstem? What are the experiences that helped to strengthen the foundation of the brain? When we lived in Texas for 15 years, we had to water the foundation of our house. Now, growing up in the Midwest, this- I don't remember this being something that we had to do. But we literally watered the foundation of our house like a garden. And I remember thinking that this was really weird. We'd literally be standing there like watering the cement. But apparently this is one of the ways you keep the foundation of your house nice and strong. Because when the foundation of the house gets weak, that house starts to crack. And it can crack not just at the foundation, but all the way up like at the top, at the ceiling. Right? So a weak foundation impacts the very top. And a weak, underdeveloped, and poorly organized brainstem, the foundation of the brain impacts the very top of the brain, which is the cortex. So let's guess what the cortex does. The cortex allows for cause and effect thinking. Thinking about consequence and taking into consideration what those consequences might be before like doing something. The cortex helps us understand what another person is experiencing, which then, you know, contributes to empathy. And the cortex stores all of our coping skills, things like, ‘hey, I'm starting to get stressed, I should take a break and go for a walk’. The cortex helps us find our words, right? Things like being able to say out loud and describe- self reflect and describe an inner experience, like, ‘I'm starting to feel angry, or I'm feeling angry’. The cortex helps our brain slow down enough that there's a pause before we react. A moment where we can identify what's happening and think about the most appropriate thing to do, right? And to be clear, y’all like there is no part of the brain that we could silo off and say this part does this one thing all by itself. The brain doesn't work that way. And it's a major oversimplification to even insinuate that it does. But this is a place where I think the both and is- is helpful. That we can completely acknowledge that the- there is no part of the brain that we can silo out and say, this part of the brain does this. And if we do this, we can fix this part of the brain, it just simply doesn't work that way. While at the same time, we can acknowledge that there are regions of the brain that specialize and they're kind of unique thing that they contribute to- to our humaneness. Right? So they like how we exist in the world. And so it can be true that there is no one part that does one specific thing in the brain. And there are regions of the brain that have their own kind of area of specialization. And when we think about that, we then can take into consideration what part of the brain, what unique area of specialization does our child needs support with? And then what are the kinds of experiences that could help to strengthen, or organize, or regulate that part of the brain. So when we think about the brainstem, autonomic nervous system, this foundation of the brain, when the foundation of the brain is shaky, a little amount of stress can metaphorically collapse the brain. Right? So the cortex, the top part of the brain that does all the things I just talked about, the cortex goes offline, right? And- and this is done by design. Like this is when- when- when the cortex goes offline, and our autonomic nervous system kind of takes over and starts to drive the bus without a whole lot of interference from the cortex. There's actually really good reasons why this is happening. It's just that, in our kids with a more vulnerable nervous system with a more vulnerable neurobiology, this is happening way more often than is truly helpful for them. Right? So then the cortex goes offline, their lid is flipped. And there's just no thinking, only doing. Which, by the way, y'all when our cortex goes offline, and our lid is flipped, there's no thinking only- and there's only doing, this is true about all of us. Those of us with less vulnerable nervous systems, less vulnerable neurobiologies can navigate through life stressors with less frequent lid flipping. Does that make sense? I might have used too many negatives in that sentence. Right? That, as I've worked really hard to strengthen my nervous system and my neurobiology, I can navigate the stressors of life in a way that I don't lose, you know, flip my lid and have my brain collapse so that I'm completely operating out of my autonomic nervous system. I mean, that does happen. It just happens less frequently than individuals who have more vulnerable neurobiology. So what we're wanting to do as we think about like strengthening the foundation of the brain is in a way is like, how can we build? How can we strengthen the nervous system? How do we decrease the vulnerability in a nervous system? Maybe regardless of why that nervous system is vulnerable, but of course, my area of expertise is the way that like toxic stress and any childhood experiences. Trauma creates a vulnerability in the nervous system.
Robyn: Okay, so what makes [laughter] the- you know, what is the brainstem? What- you know what I've said the brainstem, the word brainstem, like several times, what is the brainstem? The brainstem is the lowest and most inside region of the brain. It sits at the base of the brain and connects the skull brain to the spinal cord, right? So the brainstem is like where our spinal cord comes up and meets the brain. The brainstem is where the spinal cord first goes kind of into what we think about as being our skull brain. The brainstem is the first part of the brain to really wire up and flourish with neural connections in utero, and then, shortly after birth. So the brain stem is organizing and developing in utero, and is generally speaking, working pretty effectively, in healthy, full term infants. And brainstem is responsible for all the things our brain and body does automatically, right? It's the autonomic nervous system. Heart rate, respiration, and most importantly, in this strengthening the foundation of the brain series, the regulation and energy, the I- oh- the regulation of energy and arousal in the nervous system. It can be pretty easy to overlook the relationship between energy, and arousal, and behavior, because we've been taught to believe that behavior is largely like deliberate and intentional, and something we do with a lot of thinking. But the truth is, is that actually almost all behavior is implicit meaning almost all behavior is automatic. Most behavior happens without us thinking about it. Though, without a doubt, we can strengthen our brain to have the ability to slow down more often. And think about more behavior, though not all behavior, we would never want that to be our goal. If we had conscious, deliberate thought about every single thing that we did, we would be able to do almost nothing. So we want a lot of our behavior to be automatic. And we can strengthen our brain to have the ability to slow down and think about more behavior more often, developmentally, appropriately as well too. Obviously how much a three year old would be capable of this and how much a 23 year old would be capable are going to be pretty different. So a much more effective pathway changing behavior isn't actually encouraging kids or, honestly even adults, to think about their behavior more. Yes, we can do that. And it is helpful. But we don't want to do that at the expense of not focusing on or thinking about how a much more like an effective path towards changing behavior is actually to think about changing, regulating, organizing the energy and arousal that's in the nervous system that is driving that behavior. Right? So we know because of Dr. Bruce Perry's amazing research that he has also worked so hard to turn his research into something accessible and applicable to just the regular public that the brainstem is developed, soothed, and repaired through experiences that are rhythmic, repetitive, relational, and somatosensory, meaning involve the body. So the brain develops right from the bottom up and the inside out, which is also something we've learned from Dr. Perry's research on the neuro sequential development of the brain. And the brainstem is the first part of the brain to develop, right? It's that bottom most and most inside part of the brain. This part of the brain is really coming together in utero and shortly after birth, where babies are getting a lot of what? Rhythmic, repetitive, relational, and somatosensory experiences. Right? So first babies are floating in this cushy bed of amniotic fluid, right? Well mama is is highly rhythmic, repetitive, relational, and somatosensory because she's moving. She's walking, right? She's you know, making adjustments while she's sitting in her chair. The movements of mama, where baby is growing and floating inside the amniotic fluid- fluid is very rhythmic, repetitive, relational, and somatosensory. Every single part of baby is having this deep sensory experience, right? Being completely enveloped by amniotic fluid and experiencing rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences. And how about that always present heartbeat from mama, right? That average human heart rate is the perfect tempo for regulation, which I suspect is no coincidence. And then with teeny tiny babies, we're swaddling them, we're holding them, we're wrapping them up, we pick them up, we put them down, we rock them, we bounce them. I mean, literally, all I have to do is even pick up a baby doll, which, when I'm working with kids in the office, I do a lot. And I'm almost instantly like rocking back and forth and bobbing up and down. And it's just a baby doll. In my office, I don't think about it. It's just implicit.
Robyn: Watching new parents look at like the dairy wall in the grocery store, right when you're when you're walking, you know, around the grocery store. And- and probably what people are doing are pausing for a moment of regulation, because the grocery store is sort of just regulating ourselves, you know, right, like itself. And then, you know, you see these parents where they're babes in arms, and they're just staring at like the sea of yogurt. Right? They're kind of bleary eyed. And honestly, they may even be struggling to remember what's on their list. I've been that parent, right? And those parents are gently bobbing up and down, or they're rocking back and forth. Right? While they're holding their baby close to their chest. These instinctual ways of being with baby are continuing to support the development and regulation of the brainstem. And then look at kids as they grow and develop, right? Kids are rhythmic for years because they're focused on rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences. They run, they jump, they hop, they skip, they roll balls back and forth, and they dance. As more and more of a brain comes online and they develop more and more gross motor skills and capacities. They continue to engage in regulating and brain building activities. We are literally designed for this.
Robyn: This is truly some of my most favorite research when it comes to brain development, because we can harness these powers then of rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences. When helping kids who have experienced traumatic, stressful, neglectful, toxic stress, early life experiences with too much harsh sensory input or too little sensory input may have developed the- may have impacted or delayed the development of a really strong foundation of the brain. When kids develop and experiences of toxic stress when their caregivers are experiencing toxic stress themselves, the rhythms of the autonomic nervous system are impacted. And when the foundation of the brain is shaky, when those rhythms of the autonomic nervous system are impacted and shaky, right? It becomes easier for everything to just collapse in a moment, with seemingly even very little stress. So your kids who seem to make mountains out of molehills, right who seem to flip their lids, when nothing is even the problem here. Very likely, there's a lot going on, including memory processing. There's a lot going on. But one thing that's likely contributed to- contributing to their quick lid flipping, how quickly a small amount of stress just collapses them is a shaky foundation of the brain. So one of the most important things we can do with kids who have experienced early trauma or toxic stress is simply to play with them. Intentionally thinking about the concepts of rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory helps. And we're going to do that in upcoming episodes. When we talk about theraplay. When we talk about concepts from occupational therapy. When we talk with somebody about equine therapy. It's helpful to intentionally think about those concepts, but if it feels like too much, just play! Go to the playground. You- get the balls out, catch them, you roll balls back and forth, race to the end of the driveway, skip everywhere, blow cotton balls back and forth to one another. Dance, and drum, fill up a bin of water beads and hide treasures inside. And then don't forget about the crucial importance of the relational piece of rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory. We have to play with them to organize and regulate the brainstem, our kiddos need experiences engaging in the rhythm of relationship. The back and forth, and serve and return that happens when two people come together. That is a non-negotiable piece of this equation. So let's get our kids moving. Right? When kids are starting to melt down and lose their mind, think about is there a way I can move their body? Even small movements like fidgets? Can I add a yoga ball to- to homework time? What can we do to get our kids moving? Right? Is your kid drinking or having a you know, especially something that's really thick, right? There's movement there, y'all. Eating and drinking, there's movement there, there's sensory experiences there. Drinking, especially something really thick, crunchy snacks, really thick bubblegum, all of those experiences are what? Right? Rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory. Adding in more movement is unlikely to solve all of your problems, right? I mean, nothing is. Nothing is gonna solve all of your problems. But I feel pretty confident it's going to bring in some regulation. Right? And I've seen this repeatedly. I've seen this in the therapy room. I've seen this in my family. I've seen this in my own life. I've seen this when I teach. And what happens in a group of pretty regulated therapists, when I start to bring out intentionally rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experiences. And what appears to be a very regulated group is all of a sudden, like, even more regulated. They're more joyful, the relational connections get richer, it's really quite remarkable. And I tell you what, y'all, it sure is so much more fun and easier on your relationship, then lectures and consequences, right? These activities, rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory activities, they're fun for us, too. So that means we're more likely to smile, to be relaxed, to tolerate stress when we are engaging in these activities too. Which is of course, very, very, very good for you, your child, and your relationship.
Robyn: So be creative, have fun, enjoy. And look forward to my upcoming episodes. Next week, I'll have Mandy Jones from the theraplay institute, who also happens to be a really good friend. And I know that Mandy is someone who knows how to have fun. She's going to share about how theraplay is a really unique form of play therapy that supports the brain and the autonomic nervous system. So keep coming back to the series, a new episode will come out every week. And if you're finding yourself thinking, oh my gosh, yes, I need more of this. I need more of this. I mean, more practical tips and interventions. I need more support on how to create a rich, sensory, rhythmic, repetitive, relational, somatosensory experience inside my own family. Well, I would love for you to come and join us in The Club when we reopen at the end of September. Because October, November and December is going to be all of that. Alright, y'all, I really- I just cannot even express adequately my gratitude that you're here. That you love kids this much and honestly, that you love yourself this much. What we're doing here together, me and you, and everyone who's listening. It's changing the world. Let's keep doing this. I'll see you next week.
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