Improving Connections Between Home and School with Jessica Sinarski {EP 194}

Jessica Sinarski: Yeah, so I really support all members of this wide world of interacting with kids, with books and toolkits, and then with training and the book side of things runs the gamut. So my latest book is, Light Up The Learning Brain, which is specifically written for, like busy educators, though many parents have been useful as well. And so you can just go to JessicaSinarski.com/light, to see all about that.

Robyn: Okay, before you go on. I just want everyone to know that, like, if you're a longtime listener of this podcast, like Light Of The Learning Brain, dovetails beautifully with what we talk about on this podcast, right? Like, for those of you don't know, like Jessica and I have known each other for ever and have come from the same theoretical background, and so we have ways that, of course, we offer these concepts and ideas and tools that look different, thankfully, because the more tools that are available, the better, but they're all really grounded in the same like science and theory. So all of y'all listening, just know that if you turn to, well, any of Jessica's resources, but Light Up The Learning Brain specifically. I mean, we use the same language, right? Like we're like, from protection to connection, right? Is one of the chapter headings, I think talking about the senses and talking about being playful and curious. So I just want to, like, really reassure everybody that you don't have to pre-screen this book. It is going to match what we talk about, but specific for educators and in a format that is pretty digestible.

Jessica: I love books. I love reading, but I very rarely take the time to sit and read a long book, and I think in pictures sometimes, like I love visuals, that really helps me hold information as well as like be able to access it more easily later. And so that's why Light Up The Learning Brain has lots of visuals and things throughout it and and then I I write a lot of picture books to take these big, complicated, painful, sometimes concepts and and put them in an accessible way. I was a therapist for years and years, and found that many like therapeutic books were completely unapproachable, like none of my clients wanted. I didn't want to read them, let alone my clients. It looked like trauma. I don't want, I do n't want to read a book that looks like trauma. I want to read a book that looks like hope. And so that's really what I've tried to infuse my my picture books with as well, along with just those, those little nuggets of information in the afterward. So as we're thinking today about the homeschool communication side of things, I have gotten feedback from lots of people who use my picture books, even with their school community, to help them understand big, baffling behaviors and those primal emotions and reactions that come out in the school setting that are really confusing if you don't understand sensory systems, and if you don't understand, you know, all of, all of the ways that our brains are wired and and you're just trying to teach language arts. Like, just let me do that with 25 kids with all their little nervous systems.

Robyn: Yes. So just to be clear Light Up The Learning Brain, you have multiple picture books. And then you have Riley.

Jessica: I got you. So Riley The Brave is a series about a bear with elephant parents. The elephants are purposely not named and not gendered. So my bio kids have made it a bio mom and, you know, a mom and a dad, and that's just, it's just really easy for kids to put themselves into. That series has three picture books and an activity book that is like exactly what I wish I had as a therapist, and really infused with not like sit and use paper and pencil, but bring it into sand tray. Do all of the things that we know that our kids enjoy a lot more than putting pen to paper, many of our kids, I should say, and then for kids that so that that series, it really runs the gamut. I've had teenagers who read Riley The Brave and get a lot out of it, but it's the pictures naturally appeal to your younger kids, and then the, Your Magic Backpack, and, Your Amazing Brain are books that are geared toward that upper elementary and beyond and dig into. So your amazing brain is an epic illustrated guide, because it is that. It's everything that I wish I had learned about the brain years and years ago, and gives you the science and the real terms. And let's talk about glial cells and neurons, and let's think about protection mode and connection mode. And you know, you'll hear upstairs, downstairs brain, that's that wl and Watchdog and Possum. So it gets that playful, accessible way of thinking about. It's the brain science of like, why we do what we do more than like, this lobe is this, because I don't know what to do with this lobe is this? And then, Your Magic Backpack series is using the metaphor of heavy books inside our backpack that kids carry, adults carry. It's really again, normalizing the big feelings and helping kids and adults be able to look underneath some of those things that fly out of our backpack, like anger or anxiety, or even some, you know, trauma. The first book in the series is dealing with an unsafe parent, and that's a big, heavy book that you don't get to magically just put away forever, like you're going to carry it. And we know there are ways with connection, with support, to be able to set it aside, to sort of bookmark it in different moments.

Robyn: Super and then just say one quick thing. And y'all, I don't I'm not attempting, and I just hope this isn't feeling uncomfortable, like, I certainly am not interested in creating an infomercial here. Again, like from a felt safety perspective, like knowing what resources are out there, and trusting those resources and feeling you don't have to go vet them and search them, I think, is a really important aspect of this connection creating space between schools and parents. So just really briefly, tell us about your tool kits. 

Jessica: Yeah, sure. So the tool kits are designed for educators. And so I'm working with a number of schools across the country, and actually in other countries as well, to plug the holes that are left by other like, bigger curriculum, bigger initiatives, not to, not to say, like, okay, get rid of, you know, PBIS, positive behavior intervention and sports. I'm not saying don't do that or don't do Conscious Discipline. Yes, use your tools, use these things that you've invested in, and we know that some kids, probably your kids, if you're listening to this podcast, often get left behind with those bigger initiatives. And so yeah, that might meet the need for 60% or 70% of kids, but my tool kits, so we're working right now on a sensory one. There are ones for big feelings. There's a variety of supports that that have been used in districts and schools in different ways. So both, like in the individual classroom or district wide, to support school counselors, to support deans of behavior, to support, you know, trauma interventionists, to really meet the needs. For those who know the school lingo, you know, tier one across the board, as well as your tier two, tier three, that need that extra level of support. It's a mix of of books and digital resources and quick grab activities, not like a whole curriculum, but just get what you need, use your skills and put it in practice. So it's been, it's been a really lovely collaborative thing. 

Robyn: Awesome. So everybody- and JessicaSinarski.com, is where you're gonna, you know, see and learn about all this stuff. And I think what's so lovely about what Jessica's creating is this, sort o,f almost buffet grab bag kind of approach like that. You don't necessarily need, all of them. Go look, see what works, what appeals, you know, and again, when you feel equipped to know like, oh, there's this quote-unquote problem. There's something that I wish could be different when thinking about how to create connections between parents and schools, knowing there's a problem is one thing, but having some ideas about resources that can kind of support that problem, or, like you said, plug up those holes a little, I think is an important piece of feeling empowered, that there's something we can do to address some of these challenges. So let's move into that. And as we're moving back into back-to-school season, I mean, I've been talking about this in the club for, well, forever, but it's come back up again. Of course, in the last month, we're moving back to back-to-school season. We've got, you know, parents who feel like educators aren't on board, aren't listening to them, aren't trusting their expertise in their own child, and we've got educators who are feeling like, I can't do anything else. This is it, it's the best I can do. Stop asking me to do something else. And so how do we support these two groups of people who clearly love kids? How do we support them in finding a space where they can come together?

Jessica: I think it's that you said right at the end, that the things that unite us so often are bigger than the things that divide us. And so one of the most important foundational, you know, pillars of healthy homeschool communication is remembering that you're on the same team. So I have a funny experience where I do a lot of work with parents and helping professionals, and then I do a lot of work with schools, and I'll hear the same thing from both sides of, you know, parents saying the school won't listen to me, and schools saying the parents won't listen to us, and just this tremendous amount of disconnect that happens where, you know, school meetings are tense and full of big feelings on all sides, everyone's feeling on edge about like you're accusing me of something and so understandably, these situations tend to activate protection mode, yes, for all of the adults in the room, let alone the child, but all of the adults in the room. And so as as simple as it sounds, I think if the approach can come from a, we're on the same team, you have a better shot, whichever, you know, side of the table you're on, of lowering the temperature a little bit. And waking up your upstairs brain to be able to connect and collaborate and think things through and be there for the purpose that you're there for, which is to help this student, and from the school's perspective, all students to thrive. So you know, parents are coming in with their kid in mind, as they should, and schools are coming in with that kid and the other 25 kids in the class and the, you know, 1000 kids in the building, it's a lot to manage on both sides. And so the more that we can come from the perspective that we're in this together, we're on the same team. It just lowers the temperature.

Robyn: I often recommend folks literally use those words, yeah. Like, I want the same thing you do. Or, or, you know, I'm assuming we want the same thing you do. Or my guess is we all want the same thing, which is for you to get back to being able to teach math, or, whatever. So what do you think about that?

Jessica: I love that. So I am also a parent of three kids, and two of them have some- they're neuro-spicy in some fun ways, and I have been in meetings with school professionals, where I get it. I get the frustrations, right? You parents of kids with big, baffling behaviors, you get it, how frustrating, how hard, how challenging it can be to navigate the daily ups and downs, that the demands that are placed on a kid in school, and so I have been in meetings that have that have felt much more like we're on the same team, like you see my kid, and that matters to me. And I've been in meetings where I can tell that my kid is pushing all this teacher's buttons, and their downstairs brain is loud and it's coming out in their eyebrows and their facial expressions and the intensity with which they're talking. And it feels terrible as a parent to feel that, to experience that about your precious, like, most important, you know, one of the most important humans in your life. So I think, like exactly what you said, coming in with the hey, we're on the same team. We want this to go well. And if you're noticing the person on the other side of the table is in protection mode, sometimes it's helpful to just bring it back to that like, Hey, I know this is hard. I think about the feedback sandwich. I think about the like, give some tell me something good. Tell me the thing that we're working on, and tell me something else that's positive. And sometimes, as parents, I know it doesn't feel like it should be your job, but sometimes as parents, we need to do that for these teachers who are working to be there for our kids. And so while it doesn't maybe doesn't feel like it should be your job, that that, if that, that might be a way to wake up that connection mode in in the teacher, school counselor, Principal, whoever you're talking with, to say, hey, this thing, this one thing, went really well, man. I really appreciate you showing up in this way. Gosh, you know, he mentioned when, you know, when my son got home, he mentioned that he saw you on the playground and you showed him this rock and whatever that was so cool that that really made an impact. And then go into what ever the the contention point is, or the support that you want them to try, or whatever it is. And wrap it up with that same team mentality. You know, I just appreciate you showing up. I know it's a lot. That it might not, it might not feel fun or fair, but these little bits of activating connection mode in yourself, in each other, that's just gonna make it all go so much better.

Robyn: I think recognizing it doesn't feel fair, and it absolutely feels like, why should I have to do this? Like these people are grown-ups. This is their job. I already have a really hard job. Why do I have to go in and do this? I think just acknowledging that almost every parent, if not every parent I know, feels that way, and that makes a lot of sense, and you're not wrong. But also, here's reality, that we're in protection mode. Teachers are in protection mode, and it's kind of like, you know, being with our kids, that's like, it's not fair that they're so chronically in protection mode, and we have to constantly, you know, be navigating that. And also, that's what we have to do. And the same thing is true with our with our educators, or with, I mean, anybody else, really. But I think just pausing to recognize that piece, like it's not fair, it is one more thing you have to do, and that's crummy. And also, here we are.

Jessica: And I have found so- because it's one more thing, and you're overwhelmed, right? We are very much in back-to-school season here, and it's- I have three kids in three different schools and three different sets of emails and activities and physical forms and systems that you're supposed to upload stuff in, and, you know, just all the things and and so it's easy for me to slip into, like, Why Fo I have to, you know, to begrudge the school for running the way the school runs, to get frustrated with the bigger system. For parents, I don't know if this is helpful or not, but this the same thing is going on for the teachers that you're working with. So I, again, I'm doing a lot of work in schools, and I'm part of professional development, you know, in service days and things like that. And there is a lot that is thrust upon teachers and technology changes and systems. And humans gathering together is a very messy business. It is just big and complicated, especially toward a goal. So I mean, you think about the bigger political system, you think about the education system like we are trying to raise adaptable, you know, courageous, creative, forward-thinking citizens, and there are a lot of skills and things involved in that. And] that's a tall order, and it means a lot of people have to come together and get on the same page and and so I don't say that to excuse poor behavior. I think there's, there's always all these parallels. So I think about this between parents and kids like we work with parents to accept and understand the motivation, the feeling, the state, the brain state, the nervous system state behind big behavior that my encouragement for all of us is to have that same, hold that same compassion for schools and for yourself, that when you get that angry email from a teacher, when you get the third phone call from the principal in you know, the first week of school, it understandably sends you into protection mode. So for me, you know, I have the luxury of, I have a partner, I have a, you know, a solid understanding of the brain and child development. And still, the failure message, the the failure button gets pushed when those things happen as a mom and so it sounds like it's over- as I'm saying this out loud, I feel like I'm oversimplifying, but there is so much power in holding compassion for the downstairs brain behavior that is coming from an educator, and the protection mode that you're experiencing, that fierce protection of your child, that Mama Bear, Papa Bear, you know, protection mode for your child and their experience, as well as, when your brain starts saying, I'm a failure or just jumps straight to the anger. How dare they? They are failing, like this is unacceptable. That all may be true. It may be unacceptable. It may be infuriating. My son walked into his kindergarten classroom sneak-a-peek night, and the substitute teacher, it was a long-term sub, because the teacher was out on maternity leave, She did not make eye contact with the kids one time, not one time, the whole time these little five-year-olds, little five-year-olds. Did she do that? Because she's a bad person, no, but was my brain in protection mode? Oh, yeah, you bet it was right. And so, you know, getting that X-ray vision, sort of seeing behind it, can help us find the strength to keep showing up in ways that actually might solve problems, that might bring change, as opposed to saying, do it my way, and the other person saying, do it my way, and us getting nowhere.

Robyn: Well, I think that's such an important piece to remember, is kind of what the what the outcome is of two people in protection mode coming together, and we all know what the outcome of that is, because that's our lives every single day. I mean, that's honestly most of being human, but certainly those parenting folks or being in relationship folks with so much like nervous system vulnerability. You know, without a lot of mindful attention, it does just turn into two nervous systems and protection mode coming together. And while that makes a lot of sense, and I get that, and there's no shame or judgment in that happening, like, what's the outcome of that? And it isn't things getting better. And so fair or not fair applying that to our adult interactions. And with, you know, parents thinking about educators through that lens, educators thinking about parents through that lens. And maybe, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of educators listening to the podcast, but maybe they wear both hats, or maybe they don't, and they're listening as an educator, but let's speak about that for a moment. And you know, helping our educators see parents through different ones. 

Jessica: So again, I think it comes back to this- like I've literally had conversations with with educators around what to do with that parent who's coming at you, because that's how they experience it. I'm not saying that's what you have done. You who are listening right now, but every educator I've ever talked to, ever has had some incident, many incidents with angry parents, which really, I think, are hurting parents, or, you know, parents who are, are looking to protect themselves, their kids, whatever it is, and so, one of the things that I come back to on both sides, well, there's not different sides. We're all in it together. But whether you're a parent or an educator, I think those, some of those things that you mentioned at the beginning, playfulness, acceptance, curiosity, empathy, what Dan Hughes talks about as PACE, those things are so powerful to come into interactions with. So I'll give a couple examples of ways that this can go better. So on the playful side of things, what if you start your meetings with, you know, asking a parent to bring five photos in of their kid, and they get to share whether they send that to you ahead of time or that you start your meeting by looking at five photos. So we have photos on our phone now. It's an easy thing to do. It often, they will often share photos that maybe will tell you a little bit about that kid's interest or strengths or give you some little nuggets of that child in connection mode, even though maybe you haven't seen that learning brain beyond very much in school, you'll get maybe little hints of that come through these five photos, I think of coming in with some acceptance might look like, understanding like exactly what Robyn and I were talking about at the beginning. We have the same agenda here. I know you want your child to be successful. I want your child to be successful. I get that that phone call was, you know, frustrating to hear. I know you want the best. I think another piece of acceptance is- so I have a resource that- like a tips for teachers resource as well as a school counselor guide that are free there. I'll make sure the link is in the show notes. But part of what is laced in those resources is the acceptance that some kids are going to have lots of Tiger moments in the Riley The Brave series, in a lot of my work I talk about like it's kind of that Watchdog brain, right? So Tiger moment, some kids have very strong Tiger brain. Some kids have very strong Porcupine brains, and so part of navigating that child being in your classroom and working with that parent is accepting that that is the case, and collaborating with the family around like what helps this child in protection mode move through and be available to learn. And being flexible. And I know this. I mean, I just, I have so much compassion for trying to do this with your five or 10 or 15 Rileys in your class and what I'm hearing from educators is the number of Riley's in their class are going up, yes, and that's that's really hard, but if we can have some acceptance for how that parent is juggling this and be curious together about what that can look like in the classroom, because what's available to you at home, to a parent at home, may not be the exact same things that are available to a teacher in a classroom. And so how do we make this work when there are 20 nervous systems in the room, as opposed to three, that requires some upstairs brain power to think through and be curious about together.

Robyn: Yeah, I've been taking some notes as you're talking. There's been, there's so many things you said that have made me go, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I mean, most recently, the idea that the number of Riley's are increasing, and that just made my like, heart kind of burst. It's like we are going to have to come to a place culturally, there's a tipping point that we're about to reach, hopefully, about to reach, and this doesn't drag on forever and ever. But the reality is that whether we like it or not, things have changed, and whatever we want to blame that on, everybody gets to choose. Blame it on what you want. But the reality is this, right, that the system that we created to educate, you know, mass numbers of kids at the same time isn't working for the vast majority of our kids. So there's gonna have to come a point where we just kind of come to terms with that truth and think about like, Okay, well, whether we like it or not, we've got to do something different, because if we just keep ignoring it, we're doing something different anyway, because we're just in constant crisis prevention mode. And I think that those of us listening probably aren't the ones, at least most of us aren't the ones with the power to do that. Yeah, but I do think there's power, and I talk about this with parents a lot, I think there's power in recognizing we are operating inside a system that is setting us up for our failure. There's not much we can do. And I think when we realize, when I say, not much we can do, I don't want to like shift into like powerlessness and hopelessness. I think it can be empowering to realize, despite everything we're doing these things are still the reality, and it's not our fault, right? Like it's not like me as a parent aren't doing this thing, advocating, you know, connecting with teachers, whatever, whatever, whatever. It's not that we're not doing it right or well enough. It's that the rules of the game aren't matching with what we're hoping the outcome could be.

Jessica: So I know when it gets to these bigger system things- this happened when I started working in foster care, like I just grieved hard. I kind of went into turtle mode to some extent, and a little bit of, like, frenetic Tiger energy, of like, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do? And I have felt that same thing happen over the last, you know, five or 10 years working more and more with schools. Is that the system feels overwhelming? I think the encouragement. And I've heard Angela Tucker talk about this, the encouragement is we are also part of that system, yes. And so, while we cannot shift the whole, you know, ship, we can in our little meetings, in our you know, in our individual schools, create a culture of belonging in these, like, there are things we can do, and from the parent perspective, there's something there. There are three foundational building blocks for learning that I'm hearing from educators, like kids are not coming in with these in the ways that they used to. And so I feel like that's worth sharing in an empowering way. Of like, these are things that we can work on, on the home front, even if we can't change the bigger system. So I wonder if it would be worthwhile to talk about those a little bit. So this is from Turnaround For Children, which has a new name now, I think it's the Center for Whole Child- something. They have a building blocks for learning, like well researched model for understanding the learning brain specifically. So these are the mindsets and skills necessary for, you know, the outcomes that schools and parents want to see for their learners and the foundational building blocks are attachment, stress management and self regulation, because without those things, executive functions not happening, growth mindset, civic identity, you know, academic tenacity. The foundation of all of that is attachment, which, for the world of education, I talk about in terms of safe and secure relationships, safe and secure relationships, stress management and self regulation. So you who are parenting a child who is neurodivergent, has PANS, has FASD, has experienced trauma  and so they did not, maybe  get, or were not able to take in the safety and security of your relationship. The capacity for stress management that may be a neurotypical five year old would have, or the self regulation that is required for certain aspects of school life. These are things that we can continue to work on and or accommodate like, like work toward accommodation specific to making sure we're setting this kid up for success. Does that make sense? So in the school setting, I think of for if you have a kiddo who you know that attachment system really struggles for whatever understandable reason, or even an understandable reason, then part of setting them up for success for the school year might be connecting with the teacher about what that looks like and how what you've seen help, or making sure there's some body in the building. I've known a lot of custodial staff, and, like lunchroom staff, that have been a safe person for one of my kids, like, not my bio, kid, like the kids that I've worked with. And so proactively thinking about, what are the safe and secure relationships? You know, maybe that school counselor just has a grumpy face all the time, and that's not going to be a good fit for your kid. Okay? So who can it be that is a safe person? Like really consciously thinking about these building blocks, I feel like gives us a little- pulls me out of turtle brain, when I'm overwhelmed by the weight of it all.

Robyn: Yeah, no, I think when things get too big, going super small is, the exact right way to go, while also just acknowledging we're being set up to operate inside a system that's impossible, but also here we are, so let's get really small.

Jessica: Yes, what is this little step we can take? Knowing that the frustration is there, knowing that you know, everyone, the teacher, the superintendent, that like everyone, is part of this. And I don't mean we don't hold people accountable. You absolutely should. I've been part of different systems that are working through some restorative processes, and there's been hurt from the superintendent to the staff. And so we need to work through, you know, we need to work through those things. But me with my three boys at home, I'm gonna really actively try to set them up for success with like, what are our stress management tools. What are our self regulation tools? How am I helping them? And I don't mean like, go use your coping skill because, yeah, makes me want to vomit. But how you know, how are we practicing in little moments? How are how are we getting ready for the school year ahead in in little ways so that I'm sending my as regulated as I can help my child to be into this environment that we know is really dysregulating for lots of adults, let alone kids with vulnerable nervous systems.

Robyn: Oh my gosh, yes, you said somethi ng else that I took a note on that's kind of fitting into what you're talking about right now too, which is, you know, for those of our listeners who have kids who are pretty chronically in protection mode and frankly, hard to connect with and maybe even hard to like, what I think could be helpful to remember is that this educator, this adult who's maybe meeting your child for the first time doesn't have any history of them, and all they see is a child in kind of chronic protection mode, giving them, if they're open to it, some concrete experiences of your child's like, real core humanity, like helping these folks remember that underneath this child is like making their day really hard or cussing them out or you know, turning chairs or running out of the building or whatever it is that they're doing that is genuinely making this educators life harder. I mean, yeah, like, let's just talk about what's real. Like, if we can help them see, like, I know this is a child you're interacting with every day. Also, yes, that isn't the totality of this child. Yes, and helping them really, like, sometimes I ask parents, like, hang up your favorite picture of your kid, like a baby picture, a sweet picture. Like, like a picture that helps you remember, underneath all of this protection is this sweet, precious human right? Yeah, yeah. Is it? How can we help teachers also remember, because the further we go into protection mode, the further we get away from remembering this child is anything more than just their difficulties, the behavior that you're seeing.

Jessica: I think that's a great question or thing for us to be thinking about. Because, you know, I know for myself, for my kid who has the most challenging behavior, it is really important that I'm holding onto the beauty, the humanity, the brave cub, as I talk about in the Riley series, that is in there, beneath all of the defiance and, you know, all of the irritations and everything else that comes out. So it's part of what I love about the five photos kind of thing. Or starting the year with a note, a phone call or something on either side. So if you're a parent who knows your kiddo is likely to push buttons, then maybe you're starting the year with a note, a phone call, a request for a meeting, to say, not to throw your kid under the bus, but to say, hey, I know my kid has lots of Tiger moments. I know it's it's really hard to understand, to see him. I feel that too sometimes. And you know, here's what I found, that that helps. In case that's helpful to you, like, I want to be on your team. Maybe you're not even throwing suggestions out at that point, just saying, like, I want to be on your team. You know, also, I know, for me, sometimes it's hard to hold that, that beautiful, human part of him, the learner in there, the old soul. And, you know, these are some things that I found helpful. This is also one of the ways that people have used Riley The Brave: The Little Cub With Big Feelings, is as a way to share in story form. Like, especially for kids with trauma histories like this is kind of what has happened for my kid. He had to be brave like a tiger. He had to be brave like a porcupine. And he still has Tiger moments. And so, you know, when you're seeing that rage in the classroom, you know, this is one of the ways that, I try to hold on to that for myself, and remember that he's learning new ways to be brave, because that tiger brain is really loud and strong, and doing it in that compassionate, connected way. Not like, here read this book. You need to do better as his teacher and from the school side of things, receiving that in the spirit that it's intended, not like, Okay, well, I'll put that book in his cozy corner, and that's for him to deal with, because that's just not. That's not how humans work, but it's especially not how little kids work.

Robyn: As you're talking I'm thinking about the power of these metaphors and using them, talking with teachers about Tiger moments and Porcupine moments. And, you know, if you are more familiar with my work, we're talking about the Watchdog and the you know, it doesn't matter what the metaphor is and and some folks that. Like the Watchdog, Possum metaphor doesn't work, that's fine. The power in the metaphor. There's many powers in the metaphor, but as you're talking it's so clear how powerful it is to instead of talking about our kids bad behaviors, talking about their Tiger moments, talking about their Porcupine moments. Like, if we can be continuously, even in our language, so thoughtful about how our kids and their behaviors aren't the same thing and that their behaviors are protective.

Jessica: So this is one of the things that that I am super passionate about. Agreed, there are no perfect metaphors. There's no metaphor that works for everyone and I'll talk about that with schools like, Yeah, you get into middle and high school and maybe the Tiger or the Watchdog, that doesn't even resonate for you anymore, let alone you don't think it'll resonate for your students, that's fine. Use whatever non-shaming, non-blaming metaphor you want, or talk about the real parts of the brain, like, I don't care. Talk about amygdalas. Talk about amygdalas, please. And when we can start to frame behavior as coming from the brain, as coming from our nervous system that shifts like that, in and of itself, shifts things. And so part of the educator toolkits is, is homeschool communication tools that incorporate that phenomenon. So one of the things I'm encouraging educators to do is, hey, if you have a Riley in your class, then I want you to make 20 copies of this homeschool communication that has brave like a cub moments, or upstairs brain moments. And you know, Tiger and Turtle and Porcupine and Chameleon moments on it. And I want you to notice every single upstairs brain moment that you can notice for that kid, and start sending those notes home as quick, as early as you can. And then when the inevitable Tiger or Porcupine moments come, yeah, you're going to send that note home too, or you're going to schedule that meeting, or whatever it is. But we're going to talk about it in terms of, like, which part of the brain this behavior was coming from, rather than what I experienced notes home as, which is your kid was bad, talk to them and make it stop. 

Robyn: Yes, oh, the difference between getting that kind of a note and sometimes they literally say that. Like, I actually read notes that literally say that. But even if they don't literally say that, sometimes it's just so implied, because, you know, the educator wrote the known protection mode. I get it, it makes total sense. But to, you know, to talk about kids, to like, force ourselves to have a moment of mindfulness, and to then shift our language to say, you know, your child had a tiger moment today, and here's what it looked like. Here's some ideas. Well, I don't know after that. I'm not, I don't work with educators like that. But if we can continue with the spirit of, here's some ways we're supporting your kid. If you have ideas about how we can support them, I'm all ears. Also, if you can continue to support them at home, that would be super as well, right? Like just shifting the language and holding inside our language the truth of what the behavior really is. Right? It's not your child. It's coming from their stress response. And we're going to talk about the behavior as separate from your child. I mean, that shifts the whole system back into connection mode, even if the behavior never changes.

Jessica: Right. I think what you're saying reminds me of another encouragement to any teachers, counselors, or administrators who might be listening is, I just really encourage you to connect with parents before it gets bad, so before you're fed up with that kid in your class before, like- ideally at the very start of the school. Like, if you have that spidey sense, if you know it's going to be one of those situations. It's going to be one of those years with this kid. If your protection mode is saying, Man, I wish this kid wasn't in my class. Oh, geez. I don't know what I'm going to do with this. Like, reach out, connect with parents, and I know you're not always going to be met with a parent in connection mode. So I know parents who are listening to this podcast, you know you're investing your time and energy into trying to figure out a way through big, baffling behaviors. I also know that's not the case for every parent. I know a lot of parents are. In survival mode, in protection mode. I know that screens have really deceived, I feel like our whole culture into, you know, give the electronic babysitter, and then these kids who have been on screens their whole early childhood are entering school and have zero self-regulation capacity. That's, you know, that's hard, and the year is going to go better if we can start connected, if we can start like trying to be on the same team, even if that's met with resistance, and we can have lots of conversations about what resistance is, but that that is my encouragement. Start early, before you're at your wit's end.

Robyn: Well, just like with our kids, who it feels like all the offerings of connection that we offer them are met with, I don't know them chucking that offering back in our face, essentially, or they just watch it whiz by them and ignore it, right? Just like with those kids, you know, it's hard, hard, hard work, but we try to keep offering. And I think when we think about that from the adult's perspective as well, that yeah, like a lot of our educators listening to this podcast, have parents that aren't lobbying connection back. They're not grateful for the educators hard work at seeing their kid through this lens. You know, all of that kind of good stuff, and sometimes lots of complain and blame. I'm not judging those people for sure. I absolutely recognize everyone's moving through the world in the best way they know how, and giving their resources in the way that they know. And I also know that when somebody doesn't like return your bids of connection back to you, you want to, you know, stop sending them. Yeah, I get that. That makes sense. And if we can continue to send some, you know, moments of connection to parents who aren't sending them back, that's good for us, yes, right? That's good for our nervous system. That's good for our remembering that, you know, what's going on with this child, I mean, and I am a little bit, you know, Pollyanna, and thinking that even moments of connection that aren't received well still really matter so. And I think if we can just remind ourselves of that, that not everybody is going to receive it. And then I have a choice about what I'm going to do next.

Jessica: I mean, it's getting back to that small steps in the big situations that feel hopeless, and there are relationships that feel hopeless, and so if I can climb back upstairs and think, what's in my power to influence in this moment, you know, what little step is heart-centered and healthy, and whether it has the outcome, because I can't control outcomes that I'm looking for, that I can like, live my values and show up well and offer connection.

Robyn: Thank you for meeting with me this morning and connecting for, you know, loving these kids and the grown-ups. Those of us that do this work, you know, we find each other, and we need to, because it's hard, it's just challenging for all of us. And, you know, what you put into the world, and the creation that you put into the world, and the in the ways that you're supporting, you know, ultimately, kids, but grown ups, adults, teachers, is just remarkable. And I want everybody to know that there's these amazing resources that then can support them, you know, on the front line doing this hard work with kids, with grown-ups, and so I'm hoping that everybody listening now knows, if they didn't already, and a lot of my listeners, of course, do already know you but there's this place they can go to get support, and some of them are paid, but a lot of them aren't. There is a plethora of free resources. And whether you- it's kind of like with mine, like whether you give those resources to someone else or not, like whether a teacher is open to this resource, or whether a parent is open to this resource, these resources can kind of guide, you know, the ways that we're approaching each other. It can be helpful. Just little talking points, and when we fall down the protection mode pathway, we lose access to all these things that we know. So when we can have some easy, quick reference resources, like what you have available, it's so helpful. So thank you for creating all those and I want everybody to go and check out and see what's available over on your website, and y'all Light Up The Learning Brain is phenomenal. Whether you're a teacher or an educator or a parent. I'm sorry, whether you're a teacher and educator or parent, it's phenomenal. And so I hope everybody will go and grab a copy. It's so easy to flip through and just see things at a glance with no pressure to feel like you have to. Well, first of all, it's not even a huge book, so there's not a lot of pressure involved. In general, there's no pressure to sit down and read it cover to cover. And I think even if you're a parent, it gives you a lot of ideas about how to connect with or how to approach your kid's school. So thank you!

Jessica: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me on and diving into just putting a little more connection out there in the world.  

Robyn: Absolutely everybody listening. I'll make sure all of the resources Jessica talked about, and I'm sure even ones she hasn't mentioned, get both in the show notes and also over on my website. So thank you so much, Jessica. We will do this again soon I hope.  

Jessica: Sounds good. Thanks, Robyn!