Loving Your OWN Watchdog & Possum Brain {EP 151}

Robyn: So today, as I get close to wrapping up this enormous chapter in my life–- y'all this has kind of consumed my life for two and a half years. And I know that the book coming into the world isn't the end of my relationship with this book. But it is going to shift dramatically from an idea, like this abstract thing to something that's real and exists in the world and exists in a way that can help so many people. So we're getting to this point, right, where things are about to shift kind of dramatically for me, but also in a way that's not going to be dramatic in any way, shape, or form. It's just going to be another day in the life. But as we're getting to that point, I wanted to take some time to talk a little bit more about the actual science of Owls and Watchdogs and Possums and why the science matters, and ultimately how my work has surprisingly become more about helping the grownups love their own Owl, Watchdog, and Possum brains. So you probably know by now, unless you're listening today for the very first time ever, which if that's the case, welcome so happy you found me. I used to be a child and play therapist. In fact, I've spent my whole life wanting to work with kids, I've wanted to work with kids with the biggest, most baffling behaviors since I was in high school. And that's what I'm trained to do and that's what I did for especially in the very, very beginning of my career, as my work continued to unfold, I started working with more and more adults. And I will also just say that like, being a child play therapist, helps me be a great adult therapist, like, I'm so glad that I had those experiences first. But anyway, that's probably a whole different podcast! So because of being a child and play therapist, I really connect with the language of metaphor and the language of pretend play and symbolism, right? And because I've spent my whole career on the floor, playing with the kids, you just really rarely hear me talk about the actual science of interpersonal neurobiology, or things like open planes of possibility and polyvagal theory. I mean, I talk about that stuff a lot, when I'm training professionals. But you know, when I'm doing this kind of work, and I'm trying to decode the science and make it useful and applicable to those of you out there in the real world, and I don't spend a lot of time talking about the actual science or using actual sciency words, I don't think it's super useful or helpful for you. But here we are, I thought we'd do a little episode about it. 

Robyn: You know, what's so fun about kids is that they're, in many ways, actually more connected to their true core authentic selves than adults are. And I would say that's mostly just because they've had less time to forget it, right? Like they are closer to the time in their life when they were really connected to their core, precious, authentic selves. And I know that so many of you, maybe even most of you listening, have kids who have had experiences that have ultimately caused them to be quite disconnected from their core, precious authentic selves. But even still, they've had, they've just had less time to practice that disconnection than adults have simply because of course, they're children, they're just much younger, they've been on the earth for a lot less time than us grownups have. And the reason I'm even mentioning this is because kids just kind of know when things just land with them– just inherently make a sense to them, they're more connected to that sensation, to that feeling. They don't usually need to understand the science of polyvagal theory or the science of mindsight or know terms like ventral medial prefrontal cortex, right? Like they just kind of know in their bodies what we adults often have to relearn through the science. And I know that's what I've had to do, I have deep-dived so intensely into the science because it gave me the felt safety to return to myself, it gave me the felt safety to connect with my own intuition. Kids– even y'all, like, I've worked with some of the most hurt kids. And even those kids actually tend to need a little less support, finding and reconnecting to their core authentic selves than the adults do. So I do spend a lot of time when I'm teaching professionals talking about the science but with kids and then with their families, too, like I just talked about growing the Owl brain right and helping the Owl brain care for and have compassion and gratitude for the Watchdog and the Possum brain. And the metaphor is super lovely. Like it's changed my life. It's changed the lives of, you know, just countless kids and families that I've worked with. This metaphor is beautiful. But also y'all, it's real science. So, Dr. Dan Siegel, who you might know as the author of books like The Whole-Brain Child, and No-Drama Discipline. Dr. Dan Siegel created a field called interpersonal neurobiology. Which ultimately has become my theoretical orientation. It's the basis of how I conceptualize humans and human behavior. And then that's helped me really create the map of how we help folks who are really struggling. One of the things Dr. Siegel talks about is the importance of integration, and he correlates integration with mental health or mental wellness. So integration is one of the big components, one of the big pieces, one of the things we're talking about in interpersonal neurobiology. And Dr. Siegel has identified these nine characteristics of an integrated brain and body and mind and it includes things like, attune to communication, body regulation, response flexibility, morality, empathy, and those nine characteristics of integration when I actually read the whole list off to parents, and I'm like, ‘Would you these seem like things that you would like your child to have more of? If your child has these things do you think we would be having the baffling behaviors that they're demonstrating?’ And undoubtedly, the answer is always like, no, if they had those nine characteristics of an integrated nervous system, right, and the nine characteristics of the middle prefrontal cortex– that those characteristics don't go with the kinds of behaviors that kids, you know, were demonstrating when they came to my office. 

Robyn: And so, in many ways, interpersonal neurobiology, again, has helped me with this map, and I kind of like to think about going towards those characteristics and going towards integration as opposed to trying to stop behaviors. Now, those nine characteristics Dr. Siegel writes about are also the nine characteristics of individuals with secure attachment, something about the experiences that lead to secure attachment, lead to integration. That really sparked my interest when I first learned that because I was really focused at that time in my career on attachment and attachment theory, while it also at times felt kind of nebulous, like, how did we translate attachment theory to clinical practice. And so for me, seeing these, kind of, nine characteristics of integration, how they correlated with attachment, again, that just helped me with this map, like, ‘Oh, if we work on integration, if we work on developing these characteristics of body regulation, and attuned communication and morality and empathy, right, that we are also working towards secure attachment.’ Now, those experiences– the experiences that lead to secure attachment and therefore also lead to integration are also the experiences that strengthen what many folks would call the observing self, the part of ourselves or our mind that can observe and reflect on ourselves without judgment. So observation, without an assessment of good or bad or right or wrong– it just is, its reality without any judgments. We also know that this state of observation without judgment not only emerges from integration but also prompts integration. So it's recursive, it emerges from and it leads to, which I don't know, I just think that's pretty cool. Okay, so the observing self then would, of course, be helpful when offering co-regulation, right? Something we talk about a lot is the importance of offering connection, co-regulation, and felt safety to our kids when they're struggling, right? So the observing self in the grownups is super helpful to be able to offer co-regulation to our kids; we need an observing self to help us see our child's distress, without, like merging into or becoming our child's distress. We need that observing self to help our own nervous system not get flooded with dysregulation or, you know, kind of the opposite side of the same coin,  which is to kind of put up this protective mechanism that prevents us from connecting or resonating with the dysregulation at all. The observing self, and ultimately what we would call like our sense of self, they're linked. Our sense of ‘I am Me’ and ‘You are You’ and ‘We are Separate,’ right? That you can have your experience and it is all yours, and I can have my experience and it is all me and all about me. Well, of course, recognizing that our own unique experiences are certainly connected to the experience of each other. 

Robyn: Okay, and then! We're just gonna keep layering all the science in. Then there's what Dr. Siegel refers to as the hub of our minds. And while we are anchored in our hub, we are capable of that observation– that observing of self. We can shift our attention to where we want to shift our attention. Like we can be in charge of that. And we can make a choice about how to respond, we can see what's happening for ourselves, we can see our– for example, our dysregulation. We can shift our attention to different spaces, and different parts of awareness, and we can make a choice about how to respond. All of that emerges from the hub of our mind. And then when I started to weave in polyvagal theory and the science of the autonomic nervous system, what I began to see is that if we strengthen the ventral vagus, that parasympathetic branch that invites social connectedness, we increase our capacity for our observing self, a vagal state and invites and reciprocates social connectedness with others and ourselves. Then this social connectedness strengthens our ventral vagus. So again, this is another thing that's recursive, it invites and emerges from. Now I know every single one of you listening would love for your child, to increase their capacity for connectedness both to themselves and to others, because even though it might not seem super obvious at the time, an exceptionally dysregulated child– a child with the most extensive– that's not the right word, the most intensive– the most intense– y'all what is happening?! A child with the most intense baffling behaviors has, in those moments, very limited connection to themselves. So yeah, when we think about the path towards decreasing these baffling behaviors, part of what we're thinking about is increasing our kid's connectedness to themselves and to others, right? And we'd love for our kids to have those nine characteristics of integration, we'd love our kids to have more attuned communication, more body regulation, more response flexibility. And you'd love for them to have a stronger observing self to stay longer in the hub of their mind so that they can observe what is happening and then choose how to respond. That my friends, everything I just described, that is the Owl brain. 

Robyn: The Owl brain isn't just our smart thinking brain or the brain we use when we go to math class, you know, although that's important to you and I talk about that with kids too. But the Owl brain is attuned communication and response flexibility, and body regulation, and morality, and empathy, and insight. Right? And the Owl brain can observe the Watchdog and the Possum without totally flying away. The Owl brain can be connected with Watchdog energy and Possum energy. And the Owl brain connects with the Watchdog and the Possum with curiosity and nonjudgmental presence. Because that is the state of mind that invites integration, and integration is what we're going for. What I love, love, love, love, love about this metaphor is one, that most folks actually find it really intuitive, especially kids, and two, it doesn't just apply to kids, it applies to all of us. We start out learning about our kid's Watchdog and Possum pathways, and if you listen here to this podcast, my guess is that your child or the kids that you work with, have an overactive Watchdog and Possum pathway. I mean, we all have overactive– I'm sorry, we all have Watchdog and Possum pathways, and that's not a problem. What gets challenging, what gets baffling is when those pathways are overactive, when they're sensitized, when they're over-responsive, right? And what that means then is that they have an Owl brain that needs support, needs strengthening. This theory dictates my entire approach to not just parenting but to clinical treatment. Usually, when I first see kids, they are so completely flooded by their Watchdog in their Possum pathways. And some of this is simply just because they're kids. That the Owl brain takes time to develop and that five-year-olds have a very different capacity, of course, for an Owl brain than, you know, 15-year-olds and 25-year-olds and 45-year-olds. But even beyond just being kids, the kids that I always, you know, was working with, they're totally flooded by their Watchdog and they’re Possum pathway like, beyond what we would expect given their age. They have very little observing self and if they do, it flies away quickly, instantaneously, in the face of what we would objectively say is very little stress. The Owl brain is strengthened by an adult with a strong Owl brain; an adult who has a strong observing self, an adult who can see their own reactions, their own Watchdog and Possum brain, they can start to see their own Watchdog and Possum brain begin to come alive. The Owl brain is strengthened by an adult who can see their child's behaviors as behaviors, not of the child themselves, but of the Watchdog and Possum brain, right? That's a strong Owl brain to be able to see their kid's behaviors in that way. So when I see kids in the office, highly dysregulated kids, from a clinical standpoint, my only strategy, the only intervention at first is the adult, that's me, staying in my own Owl brain offering connection, co-regulation and felt safety. 

Robyn: Now, certainly, there are a lot of things I'm doing with these highly dysregulated kids, but the strategies and interventions, they're actually fairly inconsequential. I mean, the primary thing I'm focused on, I'm working with kids who are that highly dysregulated is myself, is me staying regulated, is me staying in my Owl brain, because that begins to strengthen and organize that child's Owl brain. That begins to strengthen and myelinate that child’s ventral vagus. So we start to really strengthen the child's observing self in the hub of their mind, of course, in age-appropriate ways. Then slowly, slowly, slowly, that child’s Owl brain will, you know, essentially start to hatch. And that young emerging Owl brain loves metaphor, and loves symbolism, and loves pretend play. And that young hatching our brain can then start to conceptualize the metaphor of Owls and Watchdogs and Possums. Then slowly, slowly, slowly, and y’all I know, it is so slow. The Owl and the Watchdog and the Possum all start to develop a relationship with each other. As a play therapist, I saw this happen with puppets and dolls and in the sand tray and with art, kid’s start to use their Owl brain– their compassionate, observing, nonjudgmental self, to be with the parts of themselves that are typically judged and shamed. And at first, it's all in metaphor, right? The Owl brain doesn't know that's what it's doing. It stays in metaphor. That space– that compassionate space is that neurobiology of change, that compassionate space is the neurobiology of integration. And it starts with us the grown-ups offering it, we offer our Owl brain, we offer our compassionate space, our nonjudgmental presence. And then eventually our kid's minds start to embody that presence too. 

Robyn: Okay and here is for me, the most unexpected part. Well, it was unexpected to me, somebody who trained as a child in play therapist, and who really was only ever interested in working with kids. But this whole experience strengthens the adult’s Owl brain too. The adults, the grown-ups– that's you, that's me, we start to apply this metaphor to ourselves. And you can see your own Watchdog and Possum parts, that strengthens your observing self, the hub of your mind, you're Owl brain. This increases your capacity then, for staying connected to yourself in the face of your child's dysregulation. And that way of being– not something you actually do, is what invites a moment of presence and integration within your child's dysregulated nervous system. You love your child's Watchdog and Possum parts, by loving your own. This is actually so much harder than loving your child's Watchdog and Possum parts. But do you see how it's really necessary? It's both necessary and something you can work toward. But also it naturally emerges as these parts are seen and known and co-regulated by both yourself and by others. And if you're listening to this episode, to this podcast as a professional, this all applies to you too. We just get to pull it out one more level, right? Your strengthening of your Owl brain invites the parents that you work with to increase their own integration and regulation and sense of self and ability to offer compassion to themselves and their child. So do you you see all the levels there? When I set out to write a book, I wanted to write a book that didn't just give your Owl brain information, but I wanted to actually strengthen your Owl brain, I wanted to strengthen the hub of your mind, your observing self. I wanted to offer you compassion, you nonjudgmental presence, and I wanted to do that through the pages of a book so that I could do it for a lot of people. So that you could then internalize that compassion and begin to offer it to yourself. As you turn every page of the book or swipe it on your Kindle, or y'all I did just hear audios coming, yay! But as you turn each page of the book you'll see how that process unfolds for Nat. And then it is my hope that the very, very deliberate way I chose to write this book, specifically the parts of the book between myself and Nat. So if you haven't heard previous episodes, Nat is a character in my book, and she comes to me for support in parenting her child. So over the course of the book, it doesn't read just like a kind of traditional nonfiction book full of information, but there's also a story element, there is a character who you get to know. And over the course of the book, you will hear me have compassion for Nat. And ultimately, you may end up having compassion for Nat as well. Right? But again, at the very, very least, you're hearing me have authentic compassion for Nat. And maybe that compassion in the words will start to awaken a neural net of compassion in your mind. 

Robyn: Your Owl brain will strengthen. You'll start to notice that compassion towards your own Watchdog and Possum parts begin to just naturally emerge and you won't be afraid of it. Because I know when I first started learning about self-compassion, I was afraid I could not take it in. And that might be your journey as well and that would be absolutely welcome. But it is also my hope, that if your nervous system is in a state where it is ready to begin to be with yourself with compassion, that the words in this book and the way that I am with Nat, prompts that and invites that. I know that in my work in the office, with parents and kids, I didn't start out teaching them to have compassion for themselves, I began to lay a foundation for it, I began to help strengthen the hub of their mind, their own Owl brain, by offering the compassion. By staying fiercely committed to compassion, by staying fiercely committed to welcoming with no agenda, and judgment, all of their parts, right? I didn't just start teaching from the very first moment, ‘Hey, you should have compassion for yourself.’ No, no, no, no, I offered it, it was the SEA that the strategies and the interventions kind of like float upon. And I understand y’all, that drowning families don't just need a sea of compassion, they need interventions, right? They need strategies. So in my work with families in the office, I would simultaneously offer both. The interventions were important, of course, they're like a life preserver. But they are important because of the sea that they were in and the ocean that they were in. I mean, I live in Michigan, so you think of it like the Great Lakes or hey, I remember walking on my treadmill one day more than two years ago I mean, we're pushing two and a half years ago, wondering how could I offer that in a book? If I wasn't truly with people relationally? How could I offer it because I wanted to write a book but I did not want to just write another book full of interventions and strategies, or just write a book full of theory. I wanted to write a book that mattered. Otherwise, why do you need to read it? There's a lot of great books out there. So I'm like, ‘How can I offer this piece, this piece that I know families and parents and kids got when they came to my office? How could I offer that in a book?’ So I turned to what I know best, which is the neurobiology. And I thought, how can I offer that and I said, ‘Well, I'll offer it through story.’ I offered it by creating a felt relationship between me and Nat and story and I tried to do it in a way that if it felt safe enough to you, that you could eventually become Nat. That you could start to feel like it was me in you. I wanted the story to come alive, I wanted you to become the story so that you could receive the compassion so that your Owl brain could grow. And so you could then offer that to your child. And of course, I also gave you a lot of strategies and interventions. I mean, section two y'all, is all about the tools. It is packed full of practical strategies and interventions, you'll actually be able to use– I mean, the moment you read about them you'll be able to use them. But more than that, you'll know why you're using them. So that you don't just keep going with behavior Whack-a-Mole, but that you can begin to embody the importance of co-regulation and connection and felt safety. And that over time that's what really matters, way more than the actual tools. 

Robyn: Now it's possible that the book has already arrived in your mailbox, and if not, it's going to be arriving shortly! I just like– I don't know y'all I can hardly even conceptualize this. I can barely wrap my brain around this. Very shortly you're going to join me and Nat, and then you're going to get to love Nat and Sammy. You'll feel in your bones that there is nothing wrong with either of them. And of course, that's what they're also desperately afraid of, that there's something wrong with them, but there's not. There's nothing wrong with Nat. There's nothing wrong with Nat’s kid, Sammy. And therefore, that must be true about you and your kid, too. And until then, until you have that opportunity to know in your bones that there's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with your kid. Until then, I'm just going to hold my own Owl wings wide and outstretched. I imagine holding my own Watchdog and Possum parts, and then yours and your child's. And thankfully, I have other people's Owl wings wrapped around me, you can read about those people in the acknowledgments in my book! I have so many owls who have like knit themselves into my neurobiology and strengthened my own Owl self, so that I can offer this compassion and gratitude and nonjudgmental presence for you and your child. 

Robyn: Y'all, we have made it this book is going out into the world this week! When I wrote the book, and I had the help of my editor, Holly. I was so grateful that Nat and Sammy had Holly too, not just me. They had Holly, they got to be loved by Holly, right? Not just me. And so so soon, you're gonna get to love Nat and Sammy too! Nat and Sammy need everyone possible to love them and that's gonna get to be you, you get to love them and I get to love you and your kids. And so does everyone else who reads the book, and listens to the podcast and y'all, that's what changes the brain. And frankly, that's what's going to change the world. But I totally get that you are most focused on your family and your kid, that makes perfect sense. I get to kind of stand on the outsides of everything and see how it's changing everything. Okay, all right, y'all, I'm wrapping up this episode. And here's where I have to tell you where to go buy the book. Because otherwise my teenager who helps me now with editing the podcast, is going to waltz into my office plopped down into my purple chair, and give me a little bit of what for for not telling you often enough, where you can go get more support. So the book, robyngobbel.com/book, depending on when you hear this episode, it may or may not still be available for pre-order, it may just be available for order, you can order it and then it will arrive at robyngobbel.com/book, it's, of course, available wherever books are sold. You can go to your local favorite independent bookstore, you can go to the big places that will get books shipped to you fast go wherever you want and by Raising Kids With Big, Baffling Behaviors: Brain-body-sensory Strategies That Really Work. Of course, keep following the podcast. If you haven't already, hit subscribe, you can go to my website and go to their free resources tab. There are so many free resources; ebooks, webinars, infographics, just so many different things that can support you, in beginning to really embody and implement this relational neuroscience way of being with kids, especially kids with the most baffling behaviors. All of these resources are intended to help you not just learn the tools, but actually embody the information, and grow your window of tolerance so that you can use the tools in your real life. So that's robyngobbel.com/freeresources. Now, if you have the book, and you've read it and you loved it, I would be super grateful for you to give a rating and review over on Amazon or on Goodreads, you can rate and review on Amazon even if you didn't buy the book from there. The more ratings and reviews that we have, the more people will discover the book. And the more people who discover the book, the more adults in the world will be aware of this way of being with kids and that's good for your kid and your families. So leaving a review on Amazon, on Goodreads, and also you can rate and review the podcast right in your podcast app. I really appreciate that as well. And so to all the families listening, who because of your rating and reviewing it, there might be a teacher or coach, or just the next-door neighbor who ends up stumbling across this information and then is with their kids in a new kind of way in your life that really, really matters. Thank you. Thank you for everything you do for yourself and for kids. I'm so honored that you've invited me on this journey with you. And I can't wait to be with you again here next week. Bye bye!