Match The Energy, NOT the Dysregulation {EP 155}

Robyn: If you are new here, or you're new to this way of parenting or this way of seeing kids or this way of seeing behaviors, you might want to go and check out the Start Here podcast when this episode is over. In response to having folks ask me a lot like ‘Oh my gosh, where do I start? There's so much.’ You know in this podcast alone there are over 150 episodes. And it's hard to know where to begin, especially because podcasts aren't exactly in, you know, an order that helps you kind of scaffold and make sense of all this information. So in response to that question, I put together a 10-episode podcast stream and called it Start Here. So it's actually 10 episodes taken from this podcast, but I picked the top 10 that I would want you to listen to and in order, in order to get started with this new approach to parenting, especially parenting kids with vulnerable nervous systems and big baffling behaviors. So you can find that at robyngobbel.com/starthere. And of course, if you haven't already snagged the book, Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, that is also an excellent place to get started and especially get started in a way where the information is laid out in an order that's very intentional to help you absorb the information and scaffold all these new skills. 

Robyn: Today we're gonna dive into this parenting strategy that I think is a pretty advanced parenting strategy called match the energy, but not the dysregulation. What on earth does that mean? I am going to tell you exactly what that means. And I'll give you some examples. And I'll point you in the direction of where you can go if you want to dive even further into this strategy, into this concept. I said already, that I consider this a pretty advanced parenting strategy or technique. It's a really powerful one. But I think it's really advanced. And the reason it's advanced is because it's very easy to flip into dysregulation yourself when experimenting with this specific strategy. So let's just make that disclaimer right up front, as you start to practice this strategy. Don't be hard on yourself, if you notice yourself, you know, pretty easily flipping into dysregulation and you end up matching the energy and the dysregulation, that's perfectly normal, being able to match the energy or the intensity of somebody else, without also matching their dysregulation requires a lot of flexibility, a lot of resilience in our own nervous systems. And I know that, especially if you're just finding this podcast, but really, even if you've been listening for a long time, you know, due to the intensity of what's happening in your home and in your family and with your child, your nervous system might not be feeling very resilient right now. So I want you to keep that in mind, give yourself so much grace, so much compassion. If this strategy and technique feels really hard to implement, you might want to just bookmark this episode, come back to it later. Or if you have a lot of bandwidth for, quote-unquote mistakes, then by all means, just keep practicing this specific technique and the specific intervention, practicing it is a lot like doing the dance of rupture and repair, even just with yourself. And that by in and of itself could really, you know, help to strengthen the resilience of your stress response system. So just don't get discouraged. Also, like all strategies or techniques, this is not a magic bullet, it doesn't work all the time. Sometimes it leaves the dysregulation just escalating. If you've been listening for a while, or you've read my book, or you're in the club, you know that a specific strategy or a specific technique is just the teeniest tiniest portion of the overall solution. More than a strategy or technique, what's helpful for us and for our kids is our way of being and so this idea of matching the energy without the dysregulation is pulling together both; a way of being while kind of strategically using this idea or this concept as a technique. The science behind the concept of match the energy, but not the dysregulation is pulled from theories like the polyvagal theory, interpersonal neurobiology, I use my understanding of the autonomic nervous system, I lean into Dr. Louis Cozolino's idea of the resonance circuitry, specifically mirror neurons. And of course, almost as always, the attachment cycle. 

Robyn: Now, to match the energy without matching the dysregulation, we have to be really clear about the difference between energy and arousal. And, you know, fight-flight, or collapse energy, okay? That so often, we conflate the two and we label an increase in energy and arousal in the autonomic nervous system as fight-flight, or we increase that drastic decrease in energy and arousal in the autonomic nervous system as collapse. But the autonomic nervous system, which is responsible for the energy in arousal in our bodies, and the regulation, and the balance of that energy and arousal– The autonomic nervous system has an accelerator and a brake. And the individual's neuro-received experience of being safe or not safe is the difference between fight-flight and playful, energetic, accelerator in the nervous system while feeling safe. So let's, there's these two branches of the autonomic nervous system right like the accelerator and the brake, let's first talk about the accelerator. We can have gogogo energy in the autonomic nervous system. And if the individual is experiencing felt safety, that go-go energy can be play and playfulness, it can be exercising, right? There are many ways that we can have an increase in energy in our autonomic nervous system without shifting into danger-danger. I mean, if you go back to Lisa Dion's episode about how regulated does not equal calm, we talk in there about how even feelings of anger don't have to be dysregulated, we can feel angry while feeling regulated, safe, and connected to ourselves. So the accelerator side of the autonomic nervous system is energy. Okay? If the individual is neuro-cieving danger, that's when the accelerator side of the autonomic nervous system flips to fight-flight. 

Robyn: Now, there's also the opposite, right that there's an accelerator of the autonomic nervous system and there is a brake in the autonomic nervous system. And I kind of think about the brake also having just a regular brake and an emergency brake, okay. And so the emergency brake, if it gets pressed while the individual is feeling safe and connected to self or others, that's like snuggling on the couch, intimacy, right? Or a baby nursing. Okay? If the individual is experiencing a life threat, that emergency brake gets thrown, and we move into a state of collapse. So there's a decrease in energy and whether it's intimacy or deep rest, versus collapse, is based on safe or not safe. Now, let's pull back to Owls Watchdogs and Possums for a minute. Right? There– Watchdogs are the accelerator of the nervous system. Possums are the emergency brake of the nervous system. When Watchdogs are feeling safe. Watchdogs and Owls play together, and they're playful and fun. And it doesn't always have to be playful and fun. I mean, sometimes Watchdogs, they just go for a run, right? Like they're exercising, but it's not fight-flight. And then, on the Possum side, Possums can rest into deep, deep, deep snuggling rest, right, and they can be safe and connected but deeply resting. Or possums can be experiencing life threat, and they can move into collapse, okay? This is sometimes a little easier to describe with images and graphs and graphics. And I do have some pretty fancy images and graphs and graphics that are associated with this topic in the match the energy, but not the dysregulation masterclass that is stored in the club. So if it helps you to learn visually, or to learn in a community where you can kind of toss these ideas around and experiment with them. You're just going to maybe consider coming and joining us over in the club someday. Okay, so I've got accelerator, brake, safe, not safe. That's also the connection side of the nervous system, right? The safe side of the nervous system. Or not safe, the protection side of the nervous system. So if you're with your child, or really any human on Earth, but let's just you know, talk about parenting. If you're with your child and they're on the Watchdog side of their nervous system and they're feeling not safe. Okay, so there's some fight or flight energy there, they're on the protection side of their nervous system. Our instinct tends to be to get them to want to quote-unquote, calm down. What typically ends up happening is we tend to get pulled into the feeling of being not safe and trying to get them to quote-unquote, calm down, ends up not being super effective. If we think about the nervous system through the lens of energy and arousal, as well as safe versus not safe, connection versus protection, it actually is a much more efficient pathway to shifting out of dysregulation if, we as the caregiver or the parent, can meet our kids at their level of activation, but do it while still feeling safe and connected. So if you have a child who's in like, ready for action, Watchdog energy, they're getting energy and activation in their arms and their legs, and they're getting increasingly oppositional and moving maybe even into defiance. We tend to do one or two things, we try to get them to quote-unquote, calm down, or we just parry– you just match them on the ready-for-action side and we start with threats and consequences and we just match them and everything gets– we match them with the dysregulation, right? And then we know what happens from there. Usually, it just keeps escalating until it's finally over in some way, shape or form. Okay, so we want to think about matching the energy, some accelerator, but can we as the caregiver, can we stay connected to safety ourselves? Can we stay in the connection side of our nervous system? 

Robyn: Now I told you this was a pretty advanced parenting technique. If you're feeling confused, don't worry about it know that that's totally normal. I mean, this is a podcast, you can go back and listen as many times as you want to. And like I said, if it would feel helpful to see this laid out with like images and graphics or to practice it with, you know, other parents in a similar situation, you can consider coming to join us over in the club. Now we can also match the energy but not the dysregulation on the Possum side, right? Possums can either be collapsing, because they're feeling life threat, or they can be just really low energy, shifting into deep rest. So if I'm with my child who's really collapsed, maybe refusing to get out of bed, no eye contact, their bodies really slumped, matching that energy, but without the dysregulation might look like taking a breath. You know, like really loosening up my posture, really decreasing all the tension in my shoulders. I'm going to bring the tone of my voice down the volume of my voice down. And I'm going to go towards my child with something that sounds like, ‘Hey, buddy. This seems really hard today, going to school just it's feeling like too much. Right?’ So I'm validating it with words and I'm matching the energy without moving into the dysregulation of myself which on the possum side would look like moving into hopelessness or helplessness. Now if we go back to looking at an example on the watchdog side again, maybe you have a ready-for-action or even a back-off Watchdog who is increasingly oppositional, defiant, they're yelling at you, they're stomping around, right? With really good connection and awareness of ourselves. We might be able to respond with similar energy, but not the dysregulation, we might be able to respond to something like, ‘Yeah, you are so mad right now that I'm not letting you go to the football game tonight. I get it. That makes sense. You really wanted to go and I'm saying no, and you're mad about it.’ Okay, do you see how we've matched the energy without the dysregulation, while of course, also bringing in the skills of attunement and validation? Now I know some of you are listening are thinking my child won't let me say anything when they're in that level of dysregulation, they yell at me to shut up, they tell me to stop talking, or they do something, maybe mock to let you know they really can't process words right now. And so in that case, what we want to do you think about matching the energy without the dysregulation with our bodies, with our nonverbals. And so I'll coach parents to still maintain some energy and activation in their body, or to really take a breath and, you know, decrease all that energy and activation in your body, like really allow your body to soften. 

Robyn: Okay, we're gonna think about the nonverbals that can match with our body posture, with our breath rates, you know, with our eyes, with our muscles, with the look on our face. We also want to think about being very clear that we're sending quote-unquote, cues of safety. If we're going to experiment with matching the energy, we're probably going to have to send very overt cues of safety, to be very clear that the energy we're matching isn't energy of fight-flight; it's not energy of protection, it's not energy of being unsafe. And so ways that we can send nonverbal cues of safety include putting your body lower than your child's body, making your eyes lower than theirs; sitting down, crouching down, sitting on the floor. Decreasing the number of words that you're using, being very clear that you're not arguing with them, even if what they're saying is kind of absurd. There are also a couple of common pitfalls, things to watch out for, I want you to think about. It is really easy, especially when we're practicing this new skill for it to come out in a pretty contrived and authentic way. It can feel really like a tool or really like a technique. And nobody really likes to feel like they're on the receiving end of a tool or a technique. And it can feel pretty manipulative. But that's especially true for dysregulated people. It also makes a lot of sense that at first, when you experiment with this, it's going to feel like a tool or a technique, you kind of just have to balance that out. You're not going to get comfortable enough with this approach or with this strategy if you don't practice it. And practicing at first is going to probably come out feeling like an inauthentic tool, or a technique, you're just gonna have to navigate that and practice anyway. I also have found that the more dysregulated the child is, the more likely it is that this specific strategy kind of falls flat, the more dysregulated a child is, the harder it is to take in cues of safety. Their spidey-sense, their Watchdog brain is highly tuned to cues of danger to the point where it can really cause them to overlook safety cues, which means they could experience you're matching the energy without the dysregulation as simply matching the energy with dysregulation. It also– I've also seen this strategy to sometimes be received by somebody who's dysregulated as kind of like feeling as though they're being mocked and then they often respond with increased, you know, dysregulation or with mocking back. As always, whenever we are trying to implement a very specific strategy. We want to be prepared for it to not to, quote-unquote, work. We're not aiming for changed behavior necessarily– I mean, I know of course you are. But what we're aiming for is increased regulation, increased connection, and increased felt safety. And we are not in charge of our children receiving our offerings. So anytime we attempt to use some sort of strategy that is, you know, really intended to help our kids feel more regulated, more connected, or more safe. But it's always possible that it's just simply not received that way. That doesn't mean that it's a strategy that will never work. It just means that it didn't work in this moment, and you have a new opportunity to connect with your child in an authentic, I see you way. So if your child says, ‘Shut up, you're mocking me,’ or something like that. You can respond with, it feels like I'm mocking you. Or you actually can respond without any verbal response. You can hear your child saying, ‘Shut up, you're mocking me,’ as information about where they are on that Watchdog pathway, and then you can clue yourself into the possibility that actually maybe what your child needs next is for you to use no words, but to instead focus on matching the energy non-verbally, offering cues of safety, staying regulated yourself. Right? And every moment, there's always a new opportunity to reassess. What is my child telling me about their state of regulation, based on how they're receiving or not my cues, my offerings of regulation, connection, and felt safety? 

Robyn: Now, y'all, this is an episode that people have asked me about for years, literally, because it's something I talked about a lot with both parents and professionals. And it's been an episode that I've just delayed recording, I think I've felt a little reluctant. I think it's a hard concept to explain only in words, it's a hard concept to explain, without, kind of, being in ‘serve and return’ with my audience, with the people I'm explaining it to, you know, in a way that you could ask questions and I could respond, or you and I could practice matching the energy and not the dysregulation. So if we're getting to this end of this podcast, and you're feeling like, I don't understand this, what are you even talking about Robyn? I just want you to know, that's not an unusual way to feel with regard to this concept. So you have a few options. You can say, ‘Nope, I'm tossing this strategy right out the window. It doesn't work for me, it's not where I'm going to give my energy right now.’ And that could– that's a perfectly acceptable way. To approach this. Just like your child gets to decide what they're going to receive or not from you, you get to decide what you're going to receive or not from me. You can choose to not receive this one. You also can choose to say, ‘Hmm, this one seems pretty tricky. I'm not really even sure all the nuances that she's describing, I'm going to re-listen to this podcast.’ Or you could head over to my website and check out the transcript, maybe reading it would be easier for you. Maybe you want to pause it here. And then just practice, like maybe you're a learner by doing and you want to just try it, see what happens. Then come back to the podcast and listen again. And again, if it feels like you could use more support and, you know, one of two things, one is just implementing the strategy. But the other is like growing your window of stress tolerance enough that implementing the strategy even becomes possible or something you could consider. If you feel like you could use support with either of those two things, Consider joining us over in the club. You can go to robyngobbel.com/theclub. If we're open for new members you can come join us, if we're not open for new members you can put your name on the waiting list we open for new members periodically. Match the energy, not the dysregulation is one of about 70 or 80 videos, most of them are masterclasses that we have stored in the on-demand video library. And this one in particular, I think, is really helpful when it's accompanied by the graphs and graphics that I've made to go along with it. 

Robyn: Okay, so let's just do a really quick summary. So often when our kids are dysregulated, our instinct is to just quote-unquote, get them to calm down, that's actually a much harder approach and a more effective, though, seemingly counterintuitive approach is to match them to stay in their level of energy and arousal. But do it while your nervous system stays in connection mode so that you can offer cues of safety. And that doesn't mean lots of nicey niceness, right, we can be frustrated, annoyed, even angry, while still staying in connection mode. Again, head back to robyngobbel.com/lisadion for an episode where we talk all about that. You can also head to the book Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors. I talk about this concept a lot in there as well. When we match the energy, but not the dysregulation, what happens is we stay energetically closer to the level of energy and arousal in our child's nervous system, whether that's the Watchdog pathway, or the Possum pathway. When we stay closer, we offer a more accurate mirror for them, which makes it more likely that we can pull them into resonance. It's kind of like making sure we're as energetically close as possible so that they have the opportunity to catch our connection and safety. In the attachment cycle, when kids– when babies are distressed and they express their distress, the first thing that the caregiver does isn't start soothing them. The first thing the caregiver does is match their energy, right, a crying baby kind of elicits this, ‘oh, the baby's crying,’ response from us. Okay, that energy is first matched, but we aren't dysregulated we're not panicking about the crying baby. Although sometimes we do panic about crying babies because we can only take so much of it. Right but think of the difference between when you respond to a crying baby with a lot of your own stress or a lot of your own panic, versus when you respond to a crying baby with solid energy that then allows you to kind of move into soothing. Responding to a crying baby with a lot of panic energy doesn't help that baby move into calm, right?  But on the flip side, if we don't have a moment where we match their energy, the baby doesn't feel seen and known and resonated with and that's a core piece of the co-regulation process. So when we match the energy, but not the dysregulation, we are in a way, redoing that attachment experience of matching our child's distress before moving into soothing. We just have to try to do that while staying safe and regulated ourselves. 

Robyn: Now those of us who have really sensitized stress response systems right now, this is a hard one because the moment we bring that kind of energy into our nervous system, we tend to flip into danger-danger mode. The same thing is true of our kids. As their energy and arousal increases they are more likely to flip into fight or flight because of how sensitized their stress response system is. The same is true on the Possum pathway. It is just so easy to flip from connection to protection, the further down the pathway that we get. So give yourself a lot of grace. If you find yourself really struggling with this intervention because your sensitized stress response system is going to just leave you so vulnerable to flipping into fight-flight or collapse, that's normal, there's nothing wrong with you. What that means is, you maybe need to spend a little bit more time tending to your own stress response system, before trying to use a strategy like this. And I have so many podcast episodes, that give you very specific ideas about how to tend to your sensitized stress response system. But folks are also telling me that just listening to the podcast, regardless of the topic, is helping their sensitized stress response system because you're hearing all my compassion, you're receiving all my connection and co-regulation. So if you need to increase your resilience in your sensitized stress response system before utilizing a strategy like this, I want you to just keep coming back. I want you to keep pressing play on the podcast, maybe grab yourself a copy of Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, you can get it wherever books are sold. And consider joining us over in the club, the entire purpose of the club is to help strengthen your stress response system by offering you the connection and co-regulation that you want to offer your child. And then, of course, we give you tons of education over in the club with the big forum and the big video library. And we answer your questions and all that kind of good stuff, too. So there's lots of good stuff over in there. 

Robyn: All right, y'all, this is a big topic, I'm glad you made it to the end with me! As always, I am so grateful for you. Gosh, what you're doing for your kids, what you're doing for yourself. In many ways, you know, what you're doing for our global community, by moving through the world with more connection, more presence, and more safety. And I say that, and I say that often not to burden you with offering safety to the whole world. That's not at all. But I sort of feel like if you're going to work this hard for your kid, it might be nice to know that it matters for way more than just your child. I mean, of course, it matters for you, and matters to everybody else you come into contact with. And I really think it matters for the entire global community. Thank you, thank you for everything that you're doing. If you are getting anything positive out of the podcasts, and you have a second and you have just a moment of emotional bandwidth, to head to your podcast app, and rate and review the podcast, that is the single best way to help spread the podcast and the more the podcast spreads, the less hard you're gonna have to work because more grown-ups will be receiving this information. The same is true for the book if you have any emotional bandwidth to head to amazon.com, even if you didn't buy your book there, and to write or review the book, it's the same thing. It's the best way to kind of spread the word of the book, get the book into as many grownups' hands as possible, which then will decrease the emotional labor that you have to do because more adults will be familiar with this way of being with kids and of being with themselves. Alright, y'all, so wonderful to be with you again on this podcast episode. And I look so forward to being with you back here again next week. Bye!