No Behavior is Maladaptive {EP 3}

Robyn Gobbel: Hello, hello, I'm Robyn Gobbel. And this is the Parenting After Trauma podcast, where I'll be taking the science of being relationally, socially, and behaviorally human, and translating all of that for parents of children who have experienced trauma. This podcast was created to get you free, easily accessible support as fast as possible. So each episode is the audio for my weekly Facebook Lives. With no fancy or time consuming editing. Check the show notes for any links, downloads, or resources I mentioned. Thanks for inviting me onto your journey, I hope you enjoy. 

Robyn: Today I'm hopping on to chat with you about a concept that is underlying all of the work that I do, like underlying like all the work I do professionally, underlying all the work that I do like as I move through the world personally. And I gotta tell you, it's really helped me get through the last eight or nine months of this pandemic is this idea, this concept that no behavior is maladaptive, Meaning all behavior is adaptive. And you may be having the experience that I first had when I first heard the statement and remember exactly where I was. And I remember exactly who said it, it was who is now my mentor, Bonnie Baddenoch. And so I was in a conference ballroom, I was really far in the back. And I was with my friends. And she said no behavior is maladaptive. And I remember just having this moment of like screeching to a halt, kind of like blink, blink. What do you mean? Because at that point in my career as a therapist, what I had been taught, and what I thought I believed, and I thought it was a very compassionate belief, was that behaviors that were maladaptive now, which were often the behaviors that were bringing kids and, and adults to the right clients into the therapy room. There, they were maladaptive now, but what was inherent in that statement was this understanding that they were adaptive at one time. So there was this way that we were able to see these behaviors, as kind of survival techniques or survival behaviors, that absolutely had served the person at one time. They just were no longer serving them anymore. And that clearly, right? I say that out loud. It's like well, that makes perfect sense. And that does feel like a really compassionate, curious lens to have towards people with challenging behaviors or kinds of behaviors that bring people into the therapist's office.

Robyn: And so to hear Bonnie say, there are no behaviors maladaptive and Bonnie Baddenoch is has now published several books on though a field of the relational neurosciences and interpersonal neurobiology. I didn't know she was going to become my mentor. But she did eventually become my mentor and who I've really learned the most about the relational neurosciences from. You know, for her to make such a- like a powerful statement was something I wanted to sit up and listen to. And it really, really, really kind of ate at me. I went home that night, and I called some friends. And we talked about it for a while, like, what do you mean, no behavior is as maladaptive? So, I've come to the point where I- I completely believe that like, I stand in no behavior’s maladaptive in totality. Like I believe that in the depths of my soul, and I wanted to kind of bring to you why? Like, why do I believe that? What finally convinced me that that was true? And then why is it helpful? Like, why is it really helpful to believe that. So, no behavior is maladaptive. What is underneath that is this understanding about like, the relational neuroscientists, the relational neurobiology of being human, and what it means to be human, is that in every moment, in every moment, what we're doing makes complete sense, based on what our experience is, in that exact moment. So the brain is taking in and processing information about our current experience. And then, you know, micro moments to micro moment- on unfolding micro moments, taking all this information in, and one of the primary things it's doing is deciding, am I safe? Or am I not safe? And it's doing this so quickly. It's happening at least four times a second, four times every second, the brain is asking, am I safe or am I not safe? 

Robyn: And if the brain lands on safe, it allows our experience in that moment to move into behaviors of connection, behaviors of social engagement, behaviors of prioritizing relationships, with ourselves or with others. True relationship with ourselves not a protective relationship with ourself. If the brain decides, again, four times every second, that's fast, not safe. Then the brain shifts into pat- like patterns and behaviors of protection. So if we're safe, we are prioritizing connection. Connection’s a biological imperative. I think, oh, you can't see it up on my wall over there, you can't see it in the way that my camera is set up right now. But I have that in a frame ‘connections’ a biological imperative’. Because of connections of biological imperative. And for feeling safe, we're going to be open and available for a connection and an invite connection. And we're prioritizing connection as humans, connection is really quite essential to our survival. 

Robyn: But if we're feeling not safe, then we move into behaviors of protection. And it's these behaviors of protection that will keep people out of relationship with us, or keep us out of relationship with other people, right? That- that makes sense. That's what the protection piece can mean. The thing that's really important to understand about this is that we- each of us, every single one of us, this is- applies to all of us. Adults, children, trauma histories, not trauma histories, right? In every unfolding moment, like we are- I don’t want to use co-creating our own experiences of reality. And I'm going to use the word co-creation to mean something really specific right now. Co-creation means that my experience of reality, it's happening right now, right? As we're here live together, my experience of reality is co-created in my mind, by everything that's like, objectively happening in this moment. 

Robyn: And all of the things that have happened in the previous moments of my life building- bringing me to this point. Here's a way that our brain takes us and processes information. It's like these two rivers of information that flow in together to create one stream of our experience in reality, our subjective experience reality. We're taking like the stream of the now. Literally the objective data about what's just happening in the here and now and it merges itself together in our- in our brains with the stream of the past. Now, this is really important, right? Like if our brains weren't doing this, everything would be always new, right? We have to combine our now experience with the past experience or we would nev- we wouldn't be able to do anything. I certainly wouldn't have been able to log on to this live, you wouldn't have been able to log on, you wouldn't have known how, you wouldn't have even remembered it was happening. I mean, you wouldn't. Yeah, we wouldn't know how to turn on the water to take a shower in the morning, we wouldn't remember how to drive, wouldn't remember where we’re going. But we have to take our experience in the here and now and combine it with all our experiences in the past simply to, to get through the moments of life. This definitely also makes sense if we think about protecting ourselves. That humans ultimately- a big goal of being human is to survive, like to make it to the next moment. And I want to lean into my past, like lean into experiences I've already had to inform me about what this experience in the now is. Like, what is this experience? What does it mean? And what's my best way to respond to it? 

Robyn: Okay, so I want to be really clear this way that our brain combines the now with the past, to create our subjective reality is fantastic. Like, we need this, this is a part of the brilliance of being human. What can happen is that those streams don't always come in at the same rate. This is sort of how I think about it metaphorically, because obviously, there's no rivers in our mind bringing information together. But I think about the rivers, these streams of information, that if we've had experiences that we experience as traumatic, or have an intense, emotional charge with them, those experiences in the brain don't always get integrated in the brain, the way that we want them to. And it won’t always get stored in exactly the way that is, like most- it's don't get stored in this really integrated way. And this disintegrated way that these experiences are held in our neural networks, and our minds, and our brains. It's this- this disintegration that can cause these two streams to come together in these uneven way. So it's like the stream of the past floods in. It's like the tsunami. And while the stream of the here and now is like this little trickle, it gets just completely flooded by the stream of the past. And so in these unfolding moments, and again, this is happening so quickly. So quickly. In micro moments this is happening. Our experience, our subjective experience of reality, is our experience of reality- it is 100% our experience of what's happening in the here and now. 

Robyn: It's also not maybe exactly what the other person experiences, right? Because it is subjective. And it's because my past is helping me create my reality, the same way as the other person I was with past is helping to create their reality. And so we are very possibly both having very different experiences of reality, that's important to keep in mind. Because how often, right, when our- our kids are reacting to something that we're kind of blown away by, you know? We're like, what, what, like, where did that come from? Or that's not what happened, or that's not what I said, or, you know, we're left really baffled and- and scratching our head, and we tend to label that, like, as if that wasn't what really happened, right? Like their reality wasn't real. That you know, and it's like, well, that's not what I did, or I didn't do that or you know, these other ways that we've experienced reality- reality which is totally valid for us. But if we hold in mind that the truth that the- that the brain is always looking out for our best interest, always looking out for our best interest. Just scanning the environment at least four times every second to determine if we're safe or not safe. And then bringing together these two streams, the stream of the now with the stream of the past, to create our own subjective reality in the moment. Then all of a sudden, it makes perfect sense to say, no behavior is maladaptive. 

Robyn: The behavior in that moment was perfectly adaptive, given that person's neurobiology and what their experience of reality was, It just doesn't make sense for anything else to be true. Now, it could also make perfect sense that while that behavior was adaptive in that moment, given that person's experience of reality, it also could make perfect-, it can be totally true that that behavior has significant consequences, right? Or that behavior is preventing that person from other- other important experiences, like relational connection, for example. So by saying no behavior is maladaptive. I'm certainly not implying that- that that makes it all working out for everybody, right? There absolutely can be pretty dire consequences. But we can hold both of those things to be true. Like we can hold the truth that no behavior is maladaptive with. And there are some really significant consequences or fall out to this behavior. Both can be true, we can really hold those two things together. And practice sitting in what can feel like a completely contradictory duality. 

Robyn: So let's talk about why like why is this important? This no behavior is maladaptive mindset, like why? Why is this important? The first reason it's important is because when we change how we see other people, when I change my beliefs about the person I'm with, and I change those beliefs from this person's overreacting, or this person is being manipulative, or this person just won't get over the past. Right? If I can change those beliefs to this person's experience in reality, in this moment in the- in the reality that their brain is- is co-creating in their own mind that their experience or reality completely matches the reaction that they're having, or the behavior that I can see. Right? If I can change my belief about that person, to this behavior must make sense. How I see that person changes. I stopped seeing them as manipulative, or overreacting, or committed to never getting over their trauma or, you know, behaving this way on purpose to, you know, trigger me, right? I change my beliefs to this person's really struggling, this person's reaction must completely match our experience of reality. And wow, that's hard for them. Right? And then when I change how I see people, first of all, that actually starts to change people. When we see people as struggling humans, just like everyone else, struggling humans met- making their way through this, this mess that we call live struggling humans doing the very, very, very best that they can, who sometimes now gets flooded by their past. Right? I see that person as a struggling human who's always doing their very best instead of seeing this person with ultimately what can turn into like major character flaws, or these like character assassinations we make about people. That really changes people, because part of- especially kids, although this is true for everybody. But as we are power forming our sense of self, is how we see ourselves reflected through the eyes of the other. And again, this is especially true when we're children. And the eyes of the other are our attachment figures are the people taking care of us. Like we're supposed to trust them, we're supposed to rely on their experience. And so if they see us as a struggling human, instead of a liar, or a thief, or a manipulator, I become for myself a struggling human. And that opens up the possibility for change. 

Robyn: So that's the first one that changing how we see people changes people, but also what happens to us? Like what happens to us as the adults if we're in with an experience with a child, and we think to ourselves and your behavior is maladaptive. I don't understand why it's child's acting this way. But I trust that it makes perfect sense based on what they're experiencing in this moment. You know, what that does for me? That opens me up to compassion and curiosity. That pulls me out of reactivity,and moves me into compassion and curiosity. Now, compassion and curiosity are not synonymous with, like rolling over and just letting whatever bad behavior, you know, fly, right? They're not synonymous. And sometimes I think we think they're synonymous. Like if I can find my compassion for this bad behavior, I'm just gonna let this behavior go, and nothing will ever change. It's actually the opposite’s true. What is- a common byproduct of compassion is compassionate boundaries, right? So when I can stand really solidly in a place of compassion and curiosity. I can also stand really solidly, in a place of having boundaries. And then what happens is because if my child is having a moment where the past is flooding, their now, right? What that means is they're in a moment of some disintegration in their- in their neurobiology. And the antidote for disintegration, what the brain needs to prompt integration? Compassion. Truly, like the neurobiology of compassion is the neurobiological- neurobiology of integration. It's the neurobiology of change. So this then becomes like a almost like a- like a tool or a technique, I don't like to look at it that way, because I think that starts to make it a little too performative. But changing how we see people, and moving in- standing in a place of compassion with boundaries means that we're standing in a state of integration. And our children, who are standing in a state of disintegration, which is where this behavior is coming from, gets- have their disintegration held and our compassionate integration and that prompts changes in the brain. That prompts the integration. That's what we're looking for, in order to help the streams of the past and the now come together with more accuracy. 

Robyn: All right, I'm going to put into the comments, here are a couple more resources for y'all. I have a blog that also talks about this, no behavior is maladaptive. And I also have a free, three part video series about memory, and memory integration that might- if you're interested in this memory piece, and how that's related to the idea that no behavior is maladaptive. You might like this video series and want to check it out. Now, again, I'm using a new streaming software I've never used before. I don't even know if those have gone into the comments. But if they haven't, when this is over, I will make sure I go and add these to the comments. Thanks for joining me today. This is something I'm hoping to start doing regularly. Probably not on Mondays. But because we're in a holiday week, I decided to just go ahead and do this one on Monday. So look for Facebook Live from me weekly, and I hope to see you around. Y'all have a great rest of your day.