Parenting When Your Partner Is Not On Board {EP 146}

Robyn: So we're going to get curious about the why. And then that starts to give us some ideas about what we can do about that. Because of the work that I do, and the way that I do it and the way that I've done it for so many years, I've had a lot of opportunities to connect with folks about this paradigm shift, help them make this paradigm shift, and also get really curious about the reasons that it might be hard to make this paradigm shift. And really over the course of the decade, and all of these adults I've had the opportunity to get to know both like in the therapy office, folks who used to come to see me, as well as in the club, as well as when I'm out and about in the world training. When I'm training parents, when I'm training professionals, when I'm training educators, the resistance to kind of shifting our lens, just seeing behaviors, through this lens of relational neuroscience is pretty consistent across the board, kind of regardless of who I'm talking to. And what I have found is that generally speaking, we can put that resistance into two different categories. The first category is folks who really just don't believe the theory. So they're not going to jump on board with a new approach because they don't believe the theory behind what behavior really is. So the second reason is the same reason our kids can know what to do and still not do it. And that's because the grownups are getting too dysregulated. Now, how I typically see this is that there are some specific behaviors that some adults will feel like don't apply. They usually come to me and say something like, I totally believe in this way of supporting kids or parenting kids are being with kids, except with ‘XYZ’ behavior. And what that tells me is that ‘XYZ’ behavior pushes them out of their window of stress tolerance. And so there's this almost like compartmentalization that happens. And then I also can sometimes see that in the moment, right, that like, parents or caregivers, or educators will be approaching a behavior through this lens with this focus on regulation and connection and felt safety, and then a bit of a flip switch, switch flips, [Laugther] switch flips. And all of a sudden, the adult's opinion of or you know, stance towards the behavior really shifts, in fact, that can even sound like, you know, ‘Nevermind, this way doesn't actually work after all.’ Or something like that. What I typically see is underneath that is not necessarily that they're not on board, but that in that moment, or when they're thinking about that specific behavior, they've been pushed outside their window of tolerance. Now, as I'm recording, a third one has come to mind for me. And that is something we talked about on this podcast quite a bit, which is that oftentimes when we shift to this paradigm, we are still approaching it as a behavior modification tool. And I know that that can be really true for me, too, that there is a way that I'm hoping that this approach of regulation in connection of felt safety will be more effective at changing behavior. And first of all it is, especially in the long run, and it's more respectful, and it's getting at what the real problem is all those kinds of things. And so often we are still attracted to this way of parenting because we think it will change behavior. Now, it might. But if we use this approach, as a behavior modification tool, it is eventually not going to quote-unquote, work, because that is counter to the whole approach. Okay. I did a podcast on that previously. In fact, as I go to look them up to be able to tell you how to find them, it looks like I've done two, they're probably similar. One is Has Trauma Informed Become a Behavior Modification Technique? That is episode 54. And the other one is What If Trauma-Informed…Isn't? And that's episode 134. So you can scroll back in your podcast app to find those previous episodes. 

Robyn: We're going to talk about the first deal. We'll talk about folks who really just don't have the science yet. They don't have the education, they are not really buying into the theory, what's underneath this approach, okay? And then we'll talk about if your parenting partner is just getting too dysregulated to use this approach. And one of the things that comes along with getting to dysregulated is a lessening of self-awareness. And so that can get kind of tricky because it's hard for our parenting partners to see that the problem isn't necessarily that this approach doesn't quote-unquote, work. The problem is that in this moment, they're too dysregulated, that can be really tricky to see because when we get dysregulated, when we leave our window of tolerance when our watchdog or our possum brain comes out, then our self-reflective capacity, our ability to kind of see our own mind and our own bodies, that really decreases, which you know this because you see this in your kids too, right? So let's start with, if you have a parenting partner who isn't on board, because they really just don't buy into the theory, it is very possible that they simply do need more information and education. And perhaps they need it delivered in a different way, then has been delivered to them in the past. I see this all the time. So how do we know if this applies to your parenting partner? The best approach is actually just to ask. So when you're both and you're our brains, you're both regulated, and you're feeling a sense of connection to one another. Approach your partner with a lot of curiosity, you can use words like, “Hey, I've noticed-” and open up a dialog for these moments, where you're in conflict about how to handle a parenting situation. And again, with just so much curiosity, ask about what they're hoping their particular approach is going to do, how is it gonna teach the child. Ask about where do you think that behavior is coming from, really do this with a lot of curiosity. In this moment, it's not about being right or wrong or convincing anybody in fact, convincing energy comes from protection mode, I talk about that so much with the professionals that I teach and train to help them connect with the parents who come to see them. Convincing energy comes from protection mode, we want to try the best we can to stay in connection mode, to use lots of curious language. And to really mean it like to really be curious about what's happening in your partner, and what their thoughts are about what behavior really is. I mean, a lot of us actually have never really thought about that before. And we're parenting with a playbook that is similar to the way we were parented. That's perfectly normal. We haven't spent that much time really thinking about what our parenting values are. And really like what do we believe behavior actually really is and where it comes from? So if you're chatting with your parenting partner, and you realize like, oh, yeah, we both are coming from different theories or different ideas about what behavior really is. And that makes perfect sense that we're taking different approaches to try to support our child and shift and change that behavior if that seems appropriate. So now what this means is both of you can take the opportunity to learn a little bit more about where the other person is coming from. And I hope you heard me say, both of you, if you want your parenting partner to get some more information about this relational neuroscience approach to parenting and approach to understanding what behavior really is, then it's important for you to be open and curious about what your partner believes behavior really is. And if ultimately, they really aren't sure you know, what behavior really is, or they don't have a real solid theory about you know, how behavior originates, then you can continue to be really curious about that, and ask if they would be willing and if they since they don't seem to have a really strong commitment to their own belief about what behavior really is, would they be willing to get curious about and learn about some of the things you've been learning about with regards to what behavior really is? 

Robyn: Now I have so many resources that you could direct folks to, and resources that come in a wide variety of formats to hopefully catch a lot of the different learning styles. So folks can go to robyngobbel.com/webinar. And they can watch a free hour-long webinar that's called Focus On The Nervous System to Change Behavior. And it really outlines the theory behind what relational neuroscience views behavior as. And this is about all behavior. Alright, so first I teach about what behavior really is and then we look at how does a nervous system vulnerability, sensitized stress response system, complex trauma, disorganized attachment– How do these different aspects of our kid's nervous system impact their unique selves and the unique behaviors that we see from them specifically? Okay, so that's robyngobbel.com/webinar is an hour-long webinar is totally free, watch it right on my website, there is also a place to download a free ebook. And the ebook is essentially the webinar in PDF form. So it's a great way for folks to learn who don't want to watch a video, that would be my preferred way of learning, I do not want to sit down and watch a video online. Okay, so I love the idea of looking through an ebook. You can also direct folks to the Start Here podcast, that is a private podcast stream, where I have taken 10 different podcast episodes, that in– I think, in order do a great job of walking folks who are new to this approach, kind of walking them sequentially through the steps of learning about this approach. So we talk about regulation, connection, felt safety, and really dive into the theory of those things. We talk about co-regulation, sensitized stress response system, and the importance of self-compassion for ourselves, those are the things I cover in the Start Here podcast again, it's 10 podcast episodes, if you have an audio learner, that's a great place to send them. That is kind of a big commitment. 10 podcast episodes is a lot. So I do have a shortened just one podcast episode, that kind of explains the overview of this. And it's at robyngobbel.com/changebehavior and that is episode 84. If you want to scroll back in your podcast app. 

Robyn: I mean, we want to approach our partners in a very similar way that we approach our kids, right, like being very curious about their behavior. What's underneath it, are they in connection mode? Are they in protection mode? Are they on a watchdog pathway? Are they on a possum pathway, I want to be really attuned and very, very curious. So see if you can kind of piece out or pull out what some of their objections are. Are they afraid that this way of parenting isn't preparing our kids for the real world? Are they afraid that this is coddling them and teaching them to get away with bad behavior? Does it feel like there are no consequences? So this way of parenting– and if there are no consequences how are they ever going to learn? And if you can get more and more curious about their objections, you can address those objections head-on. Now I always think if I'm going to address objections with somebody, it's always really good to get consent, like, “Hey, I really am hearing your concerns that this isn't going to prepare them for the real world. That's something I've thought about as well. And as I've researched and learned about this way of parenting with the nervous system in mind, I've learned some things that have helped kind of calm that worry that I have, could I share those things with you and share those things that I've learned?” I also have podcast episodes about all of those topics. You could you know, listen to them yourself to get some talking points. You could send them to your partner it really just depends on how your partner learns and how they prefer to get new information. The episode on But- What About a Consequence?!?! Is episode 56. And y'all remember that my podcast's website– If you go to robyngobbel.com/podcast has a search bar. So you can put keywords into that search bar and get podcasts that are related to that topic. The podcast app, if you're listening to this on your phone, podcast apps are notoriously un-searchable, there is a very, very, very hard to do a good search in while you're inside the app, you have to go to my website, robyngobbel.com/podcast. Now, if your partner is unwilling, they just refuse to learn any information, whether that be from you, or from resources that you send, you know, whatever the method is that you're offering. And they refuse to get curious about your approach and see if you can come together as a partnership, then my guess is that this isn't actually just a parenting problem. It is a parenting problem that is hiding a bigger challenge inside the relationship. And sometimes bigger relational challenges do kind of masquerade as these specific problems. But if we really looked at it, we would see it wasn't really about that problem at all, it was a suggestion of something bigger inside the relationship. 

Robyn: Now let's look at the other really common reason that I see for parenting partners or really any adult struggling to kind of come on board with this way of parenting or being with kids. And that's because they're just getting too dysregulated. So ideally, if you have a parenting partner that is getting to dysregulated meaning– like when they're in their Owl brain when they're regulated when y’all are regulated, connected, and feeling safe, that you are in agreement about this approach to parenting. But when it comes right down to it, your partner's having a really hard time executing it because their Owl brain is flying away way too fast. Now, if you have been in partnership and learning about this way of parenting, and you're using language like Owls, Watchdogs, and Possums, you can use that language when talking with your partner. And this is actually one of the biggest reasons that I have stayed with this Owl, Watchdog, and Possum metaphor, it works great for kids, and it's amazing for kids. I mean I came up with a metaphor with the help of kids in my office when I was a play therapist. But what I have seen this metaphor be so powerful with is actually the adults, I mean it just really levels the playing field. It helps us to de-shame our own behavior in our own states of our own nervous system so that we can start talking about our Owl brain, our Watchdog brain, our Possum brain. It is one of my biggest joys is to be with my Being With students like all these amazingly talented professionals who know all this awesome cool stuff about the brain and neuroscience and they know of the words and they know the terminology and they really get the neuroscience theory that's under all of this but they're talking about their Owl brain or they're talking about their Watchdog or Possum brain or they're talking about their client's watchdog or possum brain and it was with so much curiosity it was so much connection, that really allows us to stay in a place of compassion towards those parts of ourselves. And again it's this curious piece that is so so helpful. So you can talk with your partner about their Watchdog brain or their Possum brain and you can be so clear that this is not criticism but you what you have seen is that when they're fully in their Owl brain this approach to parenting makes perfect sense and you all are in total agreement about it and then something happens or certain behaviors, you know, cause our OWL brain to fly away, our Watchdog or our Possum brain takes over. And that's not bad, that's not criticism. It's just information that our Owl brains could use a little bit of strengthening, or our watchdog or Possum brains could use a little bit of connection and co-regulation, and safety so that they can take a rest. It's the same with our kids, which is so fantastic. Because we don't have to keep learning new models, we don't have to keep learning new approaches. We already know this model, we already know this approach, and we can use it with our partners as well. And then you can have a discussion about strengthening your partner's Owl brain. So again, there are lots of resources here on the podcast, there's the recent episode about what to do when your nervous system is fried. There's an episode at the very, very beginning of my podcasts, like for one of my first several episodes, about self-compassion. I have episodes about what to do when you're flipping your own lid, I will make sure all of these episodes get linked to in the show notes, and we tell you what episode number they are down in the show notes. But there are so many again, you can go to robyn gobbel.com/podcast, and search for different topics. And come to your partner was so much compassion, you know, the stance that they deserve, to have their Owl brain feel better and be stronger. And they deserve that because they're them. And then we also know that regulated connected parents who feel safe and also have the tools and they know what to do they parent in alignment with their values. And you can really support your partner in taking that approach to themselves as well as to their kids. Deshaming this is a really, really crucial piece of it. 

Robyn: So once we're on board with the compassion and the curiosity and that this isn't about bad parenting but it's about growing stronger Owl brains, you and your partner can make a plan for what to do the next time you notice that their Owl brain has totally flown away. And if you make this plan ahead of time, over time, it's going to help your partner feel supported instead of attacked. Now it might not feel that way right away, might take several times of implementing the plan for your partner to have enough Owl brain to know that you are stepping into support them not to attack them or undermine them or throw them under the bus, right? But it's really crucial you make this plan ahead of time. And if you can use a code word or some sort of like silly gesture that can really help as well. Help your partner know, “Whoa, my Owl brain has flown away, what I need to do is step back from the situation and let my more regulated partner come in.” And that this is not about being thrown under the bus. This is one of the great benefits of parenting with a partner. And then I also think it's really helpful to support your partner in making a repair with your kids, when necessary if their Owl brain has flown away. And again, this isn't about criticism, this isn't about throwing anybody under the bus. This is about cultivating a culture of honesty and authenticity, and the importance of repair inside your family. This could only be good for everybody’s Owl brains. I have an early episode all about rupture and repair is called, “What Do I Do After I've Messed Up?” So you can go and listen to that episode. I mean, we take some notes and suggest those things to your partner or you can suggest that episode right to your partner. Now I really want to be clear before I wrap up today's episode that not being on board is not the same as being abusive. Okay, so this episode, talks about how you might approach your partner who is not totally on board with this way of parenting, assuming that your partner has some capacity for regulation, some capacity for connection with you and that there's felt safety inside the relationship. If the partnership if the relationship is lacking in those things, or if your partner is struggling to be regulated ever, then this isn't exactly about having a partner who's not on board with our parenting philosophy, right? There's a different underlying issue that's happening here. That really deserves attention. We can not, you know, negotiate with or connect with or communicate with or attempt to get on board with a partner who isn't able to be with us in a safe, connected, and regulated way. 

Robyn: That said, I know a lot of amazing partners who just have some barriers to shifting to this paradigm. And if we can approach that the same way that we're approaching the barriers that our kids here have, you know, you've heard me talk about, like, what do our kids need for their success to be inevitable? Think about that with your partner, what would they need in order to connect with you about this way of parenting now, in no way shape, or form do I believe that successful partnerships need to believe the exact same way and execute their parenting in the exact same way? My husband and I don't, it wouldn't be possible, we're not the same people. But when it comes right down to it, when we're both regulated, we have the same parenting philosophies, I can actually even remember, somewhat recently, having a really long conversation with my partner about a situation that was happening, and having to really have a lot of curiosity and patience with them, as they kind of worked through what was the barrier in that moment, to really, truly believing that regulated connected kids who feel safe, do well. So even in my home, this is something that we sometimes have to come back to, circle back to. You have a lot of patience and curiosity about it. And again, we don't execute our parenting in the exact same way at all. But we do have the same underlying core values, which also allows us to be really supportive of each other. It's that underlying core value that does allow us to kind of tap each other out, right? It allows me to step in and say, “Hey, I think, you know, your Owl brain is flown away. How about you let me step in in handle this, right?” It is our shared core philosophy that allows us to kind of support each other in that way because we know that each other is not being judgmental, it's not being shaming, right? We're taking our philosophy towards kids, and applying it to each other, in a gracious, loving, honoring of our humanity kind of way. I know I have really loaded you up with resources in this episode. And I'm going to make sure that live hot links are available down in the show notes, as well as over on my website, I always provide a summary, a longer summary than just the show notes of every episode. And I'll make sure that those live hot links can go in that summary as well, so that you can really easily find these resources. Again, some of them might be just resources for you, to give you some talking points. Or maybe your partner will be open to getting some of these links as well. Remember, like I said, every podcast– well, let's say most podcasts have a pretty decent summary, as well as the transcripts right on my website. Now we still have some old podcasts that we were backlogged with transcripts, and sometimes summaries too. But the vast majority of the what are we at like almost 150 episodes now have summaries and transcripts to make consuming this information as easy for y'all as possible. Alright, so I'm going to end today with a reminder of something I said much much much earlier in the episode, which is that convincing energy comes from protection mode. So what you want to do is try as hard as possible to say out of protection mode, stay out of the sense of trying to convince somebody of something else. Really work to stay in connection mode, really work to stay in a place of connection, and curiosity, and collaboration. That is the best opportunity that we will have to connecting with our partners and inviting them to see behavior through this new lens. 

Robyn: Alright, y'all, as always, thank you so, so much for tuning into today's podcast. If you're finding the podcast helpful, I would love it if you would go over to either Apple podcasts and leave a review, you go to Spotify and leave a rating if you happen to listen in either of those apps. Those are probably the number one way to help the podcast get found by other parents who are really struggling, other parents of kids with these big baffling behaviors and this vulnerability in their nervous system. And man would I just love it if every parent who is confused, baffled, or overwhelmed by their child's behavior could find their way to this podcast. Wouldn’t that'd be amazing?! So if you can rate or review the podcast, if you can share it with your communities, share it on social, that's amazing as well. If you're not already following me over on Facebook and Instagram, I have accounts on both and am regularly like daily, putting out more free resources. Over on my website, I have a free resources page. It's robyngobbel.com/freeresources, and there are webinars and ebooks and infographics, there are so many free resources that you can snag over at robyngobbel.com/freeresources. And don't forget my book, Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors is coming out September 21, 2023. If you're hearing this episode before, then you can preorder that book at robyngobbel.com/bafflingbook. If you're hearing this episode after that, you can just order the book at robyn gobbel.com/book You should be able to get it anywhere that you typically buy books. Thank you so much, so so so much for being a part of this journey for coming together with me and all these other listeners to create a world that's different for our kids, different for us, and different for future generations. It really, really matters all right y’all, I'll see you back here next week!