Bringing Regulation to Educators with Emily Daniels {EP 106}

Emily Daniels: Thank you, Robyn. I'm so delighted to be here and to get a chance to nerd out and chat about all things related to regulation. [laughter]

Robyn: [laughter] Exactly. The kinds of things we enjoy talking about!

Emily: Yeah, exactly.

Robyn: Funny, aren’t they? Well, I want to just get started. So it's been almost a whole year, I don't remember exactly. But it was last fall when I was doing that educator series. And so we've had a whole school year since then. Plus like the couple months of the 2022-23 school year, obviously. So tell us just about what's happening in schools now. What are you seeing happening in schools?

Emily: Yeah. Well, a lot. I mean, it's interesting, because definitely, we're in a very different date, I would say, from a year ago. You know, and what I mean by that is a year ago, I feel like at least I'll speak to my own personal experience. That's a little bit, you know, from I'm speaking from a professional perspective, as well. But a lot of educators were describing being at school as just incredibly stressful, and that the kids were off the hook. My own children were coming home from school saying “I absolutely hate it, Mom, it feels like a prison. It's like a warzone”. It just was bad in every way. And I feel like this school year started off far more optimistic. And there was more levity, I would say, in the energy about school than I had experienced in the previous couple of falls as a consultant. And I think that's not- that's no small thing. And I think that's partly because we, at least here, where I am in New Hampshire, educators and students were no longer required to wear masks, and to socially distance, and to engage in all the protocols, the health precautions and protocols. And so that enabled people to be more socially engaged, actually. Because unfortunately, that is a consequence of thwarting the virus is that it limits our social engagement. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Emily: So that I think that really helps a lot. But I will say that what we're seeing is that the honeymoon has sort of started to fade a bit. Here we are in mid-November, which- or, late November. And this is a hard time of year for most educators. The dip, the first dip of the year, big dip, and so people are expressing concern related to student behaviors, still. Expressing concern related to student mental health needs. Expressing concern related to their own level of energy, or tolerance, like your bandwidth. So yeah, I think that's kind of- that's kind of what I'm seeing and hearing about.

Robyn: Yeah, so in some ways, definitely seeing improvement. It sounds like, and I know we have kids about the same age and that feels similar to my own son's experience at school. That things feel a little, I don't know, kind of quote unquote, back to normal.

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Robyn: And then but, you know, with my clinical therapist hat on, like, that's so often when challenging and traumatic symptoms arise, right? We get to the other side of crisis. And we're all just so focused on getting through. It feels like we've kind of gotten through. And that starts to feel like when things can kind of come on- come undone a little bit.

Emily: Yeah. And bubble up, for sure. For sure. And bubble up again. Yeah. And I mean, I think it's not an exaggeration to say that, and this is how I talk about it in the regulated classroom, is that we've endured a collective trauma through this pandemic. And it has many facets, and many things that are still in play, not the least of which is the incredible polarization that we experience on a political level, but that actually trickles right into the classroom. So you know, you have a fair amount of teachers saying, scared of my parents, like, I don't want to have to really communicate concerns to my parents, because I worry about how they'll respond to that. And will I be the object of their rage? You know, and there's just been other matters related to schools that have gotten politicized and whether that certain content- academic content, or yeah, just- I mean, just a number of things. So yeah, on the one hand, I agree, I feel like the quote unquote, return to normal has been regulating for some. Like I've- it's great to see my son have a full season of soccer and do all the things that he would do in high school and all that kind of stuff. But at the same time not everyone experiences school in the way that he does. He's fortunate to. So yeah, I see- I see it- I see that settling- settling out being a struggle for others in the work and in my work and in that setting.

Robyn: Yeah, let's remind everybody, and then for people who haven't caught our previous episode, just about who you are, and what you do, like you aren't a teacher. And so what is the work that you do that's supporting our educators?

Emily: Yeah, so I'm a former, proud to be a former school counselor. And I left the profession of school counseling in 2017, to start my own trauma informed schools consultancy. And from there, I provided professional development to teachers and educators around the impacts of trauma on the developing brain and body. From there, a lot of folks were asking the question of like, great information, love hearing this stuff. I always knew there was something going on here. But what am I supposed to do with this information? And so I developed a framework that's actually primarily focused on the educator themselves, first and foremost, and understanding the impact of their experiences on their own bodies, and their body's stress response titration or calibration, rather. And teaching them how to co-regulate with their students. So I bring that whole polyvagal regulation lens to the educator experience, starting with them individually, and then through my framework, teach them how to co-regulate with kids and to make their classrooms safer, more joyful environments.

Robyn: Yeah, well, you say more, you just use the word safer. And I assume most of my listeners that kind of know what we are saying when we talk about safety, but just on the off chance for maybe new listeners, say or what you mean about safe- safety in the classroom.

Emily: Hmm, yeah. Well, because a lot of times in education we think about, so at least I was trained this way, when you think about safety, you think about things that could inflict physical harm, or things that might make you liable. So you'll do things in an- in a classroom environment to reduce physical harm or litigation of some kind. And that's fine. But that's not what makes us actually experience a state of felt safety, which is a regulated state that our bodies experience. So those kinds of- so feeling safe in class that enables us to be- to learn, and to relate, and to engage with one another is about recognizing that we can convey specific cues of safety through our relational ways of being and through the environment in the classroom that will help all. It enables more- and many more, to feel a part of something and to feel safe with one another and to feel a sense of belonging. So that's what I'm trying to help educators with.

Robyn: Yeah, it's interesting, because there's an obvious discussion to be had around physical safety in the classroom right now. With what we read about in the news, and what's happening with active shooters, and even active shooter drills, in our schools and in our classrooms, and- and how obviously, that's very related to physical safety. And to make sure that we're looking at it so much more broadly than that when thinking about the felt safety. And I think that's one of my favorite things about your work, is- I don't know anybody who's talking as much about the grownups’ felt safety in the classroom, right? The educators, teachers, and really prioritizing their nervous system regulation.

Emily: Right, which is why your work in my work is so you know, symbiotic, right? Because and so a couple things that you're mentioning that I appreciate you bringing up, which is that most of the time, when we talk about safety in schools, we talk- with people- automatically think about exactly what you just said.

Robyn: Yeah.

Emily: Which is securing the school environment or the school setting. And Dr. Porges, who is the gentleman who developed the polyvagal theory, has been a mentor of mine, and he's somebody that, you know, I look to him often when I talk about these matters to make sure that I'm aligning with his work accurately. But one of the things that he is so happy that I- I am always emphasizing is the use of our language, like how we talk about these things. Because there is absolutely a place in this day and age with school shooters to- to be considering, and to be planning for securing a school environment. But what Porges wants us to remember is that some of the ways in which we might secure our environment also offers cues of danger. So when children come to school, and they are in you know, the school building itself is like in a barricaded, fenced in area with metal detectors, and bulletproof, and you can't talk- you know, you can't even get in the door, you have to ring a doorbell. But like all of these things are just reminding our bodies that we're in danger. So what are we doing to offset, or to counter, or to temper those measures that we take to secure a locale with cues of safety? Like how are we sending a warmth, and a welcoming and-. You know, it's funny, my daughter last year, was really struggling with school. And so I took her to a private school to tour it. And [laughter] I can't tell you because it was in the midst of COVID. And like, you know, all the restrictions around, you know, physical distancing, and masking and stuff. I was so delighted when we walked up to this school to see this giant banner that just said, “welcome, we're so delighted you're here”. And I know that sounds silly, because it's just, it's just a banner. But I almost started crying. Because at that moment, you know, that was such- I was searching for cue like that, you know, I wanted her to see that. And so these things that we might say are seemingly unimportant are actually really, really important right now. Not that a single banner would do enough, but I'm just saying it's one of what needs to be many cues of safety, to temper all the things we do to secure our schools.

Robyn: Well, when you see a banner like that hanging somewhere, you get a little information about the culture of that environment. 

Emily: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Robyn: And like in my work I often tell parents to kind of hang up pictures of the owl brain, or the watchdog brain, or the possum, right? Like I have some graphics and I'm often recommending, like put these on your fridge, because- for many reasons, but one is the cue of in our family, our culture is that we see beneath the behavior and we get curious about what's going on. And you'd like, hanging something up on your fridge, just like you said, that in and of itself, yeah, that's not enough. Just like a banner is not enough. But it says so much about what else is happening. 

Emily:  Exactly.

Robyn: In that school and it does send an immediate cue- just like it's an immediate cue of safety for you to see like oh, this is a place that- that values delight.

Emily: Exactly, exactly. And- and then they were able to really demonstrate that the moment we walked through the doors too. I mean, students that were in the hall just immediately stopped where they were going and greeted us. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, this is amazing. You know? I just, those queues really make a difference, and they matter right now. So-.

Robyn: I love thinking about the ability for these pieces to come together for like the- the reality based on policy, and circumstances of the- the ways that schools are secure. And in a way that's different than like, certainly when I went to school, right? And the reality of that, and instead of spending a lot of time focusing on- on what's wrong with that, thinking about how can we invite when I mean, like, what's wrong with that? I mean, like, what are the negative consequences? 

Emily: Right.

Robyn: Of that, you know, environment? How can we pair it with other experiences or other very deliberate cues of safety?

Emily: Exactly, exactly. And that's exactly what I'm trying to do with the regulated classroom. It's like, here are the practices, here are the tools. These are the things that we know when used in tandem, convey an abundance in terms of cues of safety, and they help us to feel safe in the work that we're doing with the children. And they help us to feel connected to our students and to not connected to our colleagues. So yeah, that's- that's exactly what I'm trying to help educators with- with the regulated classroom.

Robyn: So obviously, before we spend a ton of time focusing on like sending cues of safety to our kids, or to our students, everything about the classrooms, we really do have to think about our own nervous system and the regulation of our own nervous system, and the level of felt safety works, parenting and our bodies. Tell us how you approach that with teachers.

Emily: Yeah, so one of the- so there's only two essential educator capacities that are part of the framework. One is called tracking state. And the other is called recruiting the realm of social engagement, which I borrowed that language from Dr. Porges. But tracking state is huge. And it's not unique to the regulated classroom. But I would say that it's unique to any frameworks I've seen for social emotional learning in schools. Because when we're alive in our own body’s experience, we can know whether or not works were regulated, right? So if I am alive in my dysregulation, like I can locate it, like, “oh, I feel to my belly, or it's like, tension in my chest, or having a hard time talking, because there's a lump in my throat”. Like, those are all sensations that are cueing me, to the dysregulation that I'm experiencing in my body. So when I talk with educators and train them, and the approach, one of the first things I'm emphasizing is what's happening for you in this moment. So like, this morning, I was at a training at a local school and I went in and I- I put a bunch of rhythm sticks down on the chairs. And when I first walked into the training, I asked folks to pick their rhythm sticks up, and I started playing a piece of music, and I invited them to bang the sticks together, or to get up and to go around the room and bang on anything they wanted. Well, as you might imagine, the moment I put the music on, they almost all were like, they were like cockroaches, when the lights go on. They were like, [gasp] like, they just stopped, like they almost froze in place. And so I use an experience like that to help them actually feel their discomfort. Because that's what a lot of them will report like, “oh, I couldn't- I couldn't bang the sticks together. Because I was afraid that I wouldn't be on- on the beat, or I was afraid of what others would think of me or I was…”, you know? They talked and they describe all these things? And I'm like, “okay, well tell me what was happening in your body”. And they're like, “well, my stomach started to turn”. I'm like, “exactly”! Or “my heart rate picked up”. “Exactly”! Like, I'm actually giving them opportunities to really be alive and to locate that experience of stress in their body so that they can know that it's different when it shifts into a more regulated state. So yeah, I start my trainings by dysregulating people [laughter]. Because dysregulation is something that's so, for most of us, is really easy to kind of locate in the body.

Robyn: Right? Well, and you do it with lots, and lots of other safety pieces built into it. [overlapping conversation] So there is a lot of like holding of that dysregulation, of course, which I also think is a really important experience to feel in your body that- that when dysregulation is held inside experiences that have a lot of other safety pieces built into them, that the dysregulation is tolerable enough to look at, to notice, to be with. Because of course, the goal is not to get rid of dysregulation that would be-

Emily: Non ideal.

Robyn: Exactly, exactly,

Emily: No. And what I'm really trying to do, which is what I think you're also accomplishing with your work, too, is I'm really trying to help them to, as Deb Dana says, befriend their nervous system. So get to- get to a place where they're curious about it and their state, and to help them more fluidly shift state, in the presence of students and in the presence in their- in their classrooms and in their staff meetings. So awareness is the first, you know, most important step in trying to help them with that. You're not going to shift your state if you're not aware- aware of your state. So yeah, that's- that's what I'm doing with them.

Robyn: Yeah, tell me about that receptivity you're getting from educators as far as, like you're going in. And I know, of course, you give lots of classroom tools. But without necessarily leading with that, which is what people tend to be asking for, especially when they're dysregulated, right? Like dysregulated people want a tool, they want you to tell them how to fix it. And so you are, of course, approaching educators the same way I'm approaching families. Which is, well, we're going to start with the grown up. Tell me how that's going. Like, how receptive are they?

Emily: Yeah, I mean, well, it's interesting, because so I- I just finished up, in August, a statewide rollout of the regulated classroom in my state of New Hampshire, because the New Hampshire Department of Education decided to invest in this as a recovery method for educators experiencing fatigue and burnout. And, you know, the- the state thought it would take about 18 months for our state educators to claim this sort of benefit. Meaning they could claim one of my sensory toolkits for free, and they could claim a professional development experience for free. And so we thought it would take about 18 months for that to get fully claimed by everyone. And it was fully claimed in four months. And I think that's because there is such a hungering for people to first off, be acknowledged. Like, I think a lot of teachers and classroom folks feel as though they are very invisible, and what their experience is doesn't matter, because no one's asking them about it. So I feel like the regulated classroom is genuinely- or generally well received. Because people are like, thank you, thank you for finally acknowledging or- or offering something that has to do with my experience. And of course, I, you know, did that on purpose, because I too, was a counselor for almost 20 years, working in schools, and recognizing that nothing I was ever being trained in, or anything I was ever doing with ever focused on my own experience in the work. It was all exclusively focused on the students, which I get, you know, and they're there, you know, the reason we're there is for them. But there was something that was really inhumane about the fact that- and not even, it's like an ignorance, it's like, there was no acknowledgement. Like how I was doing what have an impact on how I could show for the students, you know, that was just not acknowledged. So yeah, I think, for the most part, it's very well received. But with that, I will just say too, that I have a lot of respect for people who get defense mobilized with, you know, because the regular classroom is very counter to a lot of our behaviors paradigms that are prominent in our schools. And those are really well dug in. So positive behavior intervention supports PBIS is pretty much nationwide at this point. There's even other countries that have it. And so people can get defense mobilized, if they feel like the regular classroom is challenging PBIS. And I'm just kind of like, yeah, I mean, it could be I suppose, if you want it to be challenging it, but I also thinking about- I also like thinking about it as it's broadening your toolkit. It's like, you know, maybe some of the things of PBIS could work for you or for students, but that's not working, might you want to try something different?

Robyn: You know, when I think about my son's entire academic career. He's a junior, so it's been long at this point, that even when he is having an academic challenge, it's all happening inside of relational challenge. And you're right, like we do so- so little I, you know, for educators to support them in that realm. And I assume if that's true for my son, that, I mean, really, if I just quickly look through all the challenges he's had at school, I mean, since he was- since he started school, like, they're all relational challenges. And imagining how- you know, the- the- the teachers having better supports for them their own nervous systems is so crucial.

Emily: Exactly, exactly. And just, you know, I mean, I sort of feel like up to this point when teachers haven't, maybe teachers, and or I say, educators, because I'm speaking to school counselors. I’m speaking to school psychologists, occupational therapists, paraprofessionals. Like, there's so many people, more people than just the teachers in the classroom, and this is relevant for them all. But no, I do feel as though. And teachers say this, whether they're veteran or they're new, they're like, no one ever taught me like how to make a relationship with a kid, how to build a relationship with a kid. Like, I don't know how to do that. And to me, it's, it's not so much about building the relationship as it is understanding that our own experience of stress can impact negatively our ability to connect and build a relationship with a student,. You know, and- and that that doesn't make us a bad person, that doesn't make us a failure. That doesn't mean that we- that can't be different. It just means, you know, I mean, there are those kids. [laughter] I remember joking about them with other colleagues and stuff, like there are definitely those students that might have a way of being that's really triggering to your nervous system. You know, and it would be like, formerly, you wouldn't known where to really put that, other than you might have just felt guilty or ashamed, like, what's wrong with me, this kid just annoys the crap out of me, right? [laughter] You know what I mean? Or this kid makes me feel so angry. And I just don't even understand, you know, like, just not understanding those sorts of things. And so feel like with the regulator classroom, I give them another lens, much like what you do with your Being With program. Give them another lens through which to interpret- interpret their experience. But more importantly, give them a whole bunch of practices and tools to help them shift that association that they currently have between- between that student and being stressed. So yeah.

Robyn: Yeah. Tell us what's new with the regulated classroom? Because I know there is new stuff that's been happening, and I want to hear about it.

Emily: Yeah. So I released a new and- an updated version of the guidebook, late summer. And that has been extremely well received. I'm very proud of it. Because when I first published the guidebook in the February of 2020, it's actually had four revisions since [laughter] then. But when I first published it, I did it just as an accompaniment to professional development, just so people could walk away and remember what the practices were that they engaged in, or that they were exposed to. And now it's more- it's I've tried to design it as almost a standalone resource. And I've also tried to make it as like, sequential in its presentation. I should send this to you, Robyn, if I haven't sent it to you yet. You'll notice a big difference from the first version, what earlier versions that you saw, but it's like, I've gotten it now structured. So it's the the- the why it starts with the why of like, what's happened to us from the pandemic, and even prior to that, to the what, and then the how, and so I have it structured in that way. And I've also done some work around really distilling all this information into a very accessible, easy to remember framework, with the four core practices and the two essential educator capacities. And there's like, visuals that I've worked to develop with Steve, who, you know, who- who's your- who you've worked with, as well. You know, just everything is about trying to make it as tangible, as concrete, and as accessible as possible. Because educators are overwhelmed. They're busy people, they don't have time to like, you know, read a 400 page book on trauma and stress. [laughter] They need- they need stuff that's [fingers snapping] at their fingertips quick. Right? So, yeah, yeah. So I'm really proud of it. And it's- it's- I've gotten- received good feedback about it. And so that's really exciting. And, you know, like I said, I finished up on a very successful contract with the state of New Hampshire. And we've been thrilled with the outcome data from that. You know, 90% of educators who been trained in user practices and tools report feeling more regulated and more connected to their students as a result of it. You know, it's just, I mean that the- the data that has come out of this program has been astounding. And it's really reassuring to me because like, I know, because I can see through the course of a training, that what we're doing does make a difference, or that it does support regulation for these educators. But it's just really affirming for me to actually see it in the data. So yeah, it's exciting and lots of exciting stuff ahead in 2023.

Robyn: No kidding. I mean, when I think about just how things have shifted, since we've been in the field, I assume you and I are approximately the same age, though I've never asked. But we've- I'm assuming when we're doing this work for about the same amount of time. And I think some of it's my own professional growth. And then some of it's the way that, you know, things have shifted and changed that we are able to spend time and attention on these pieces on- it for you know, for your work that educator, for my work, the parents. And that we can do it in a way that's- that's not shaming, being well received, while also still providing a ton of actual practical tools. 

Emily: Exactly. 

Robyn: We can make, you know, we can, we've found a way to bring all of these things together and what I think is true. And I think I'm hearing you say this in your work as well, is helping everybody feel really seen.

Emily: Yes, yes. I love that quote from Oprah, I think she says, you know, every human being essentially just wants to be seen and to be heard. You know that- that's the most important universal motivating drive for humans is that we just need to be seen, and we need to be heard. And we also know that that's really critical to recovering from trauma as well. So I'm definitely trying to help these educators to feel seen. I think they do feel it when they're- when they go through the professional development or when they receive a toolkit. I mean, even when they receive a toolkit, which is, you know, filled with these amazing sensory tools [clears throat] that I've sort of selected, we call them field tested. But they feel really like oh my gosh, look at all this support from my nervous system. That's in like a weighted scarf, or like a cup of calming tea, or an essential oil. And I mean, there's just all these, you know, sensory tools that are right there at their fingertips for them to use to help support them feeling safe and more comforted in the classroom environment. And then a lot of times they end up sharing them with the students and the students love them. And that's- that's what I want them to eventually want to do. But yeah, it's- I think you're absolutely right. I think it's- I think it's vital right now for us to, to really see one another, and to witness one another. Yeah.

Robyn: Inside this, you know, unbelievably stressful- stress does not even seem like the right word. It seems so inadequate, but you have these experiences right now. And what we're asking of our educators, right now seems different than ever before, while still, of course, wanting them to meet that whatever criteria it is that they have to meet with, you know, academics and testing and all that kind of good stuff, too. And I can just imagine the relief- the relief that I know, you know, sets in with a nervous system when somebody does something or says something that lets you know, like, oh, they get it. Not even like, oh, they want to help me, which is- that comes next. But even just that moment, and sometimes we skip that moment of being seen and getting it and try to move right into providing the help. And how important that moment is of ohh, you see me and you're assuming my best intentions. Like you go to these educators the same way you go to parents, which is like you want to- you love kids like, right? You want to do this in a way that feels good. Let me you know, support you in that goal. As opposed to telling people what they're doing is wrong.

Emily: Yeah, well, they don't.[laughter] Yeah. [overlapping conversation]

Robyn: Nobody ever likes that.

Emily: No, they don't know they don't. It's so funny too, because a lot of times, I don't know if you experience this or not, but people will say to me, I honestly just want you to tell me what to do. And I'm honest. I'm always like you say, but yeah, you don't really want that. Like, you know what I mean? 

Robyn:  Yep, yep, yep! I think it’s very regulating to be in relationship with somebody who seems so regulated that they could just tell you what to do. And so whenever I'm in that relationship, this is how I train my students too. That- that when I'm with a parent who is really insisting, please just tell me what to do. That I will just kind of tell them what to do, knowing that it's not exactly the tools that I'm giving them that are gonna go and be useful in their life. They might be, that'd be cool. But- but really what I think is useful is I asked somebody did this, tell me what to do. And you stayed confident in that and showed me you do have some tools and ideas. And I think it's the same thing. Like it's just bringing a moment of seen and felt safety. And then once I'm with adults who are connecting with me, and are getting that kind of funk of regulation in their nervous system, because I gave them a couple ideas about what to do, then we can move into, you know, talking more about, you know, the science of safety, and connection, and co-regulation and things like that. 

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

Robyn:  I think it's just a fear based question that makes a lot of sense.

Emily: Well, and also, I think, in education in particular, I mean, people don't necessarily recognize it, because it's always been this way. But teachers are actually told what to do with incredible detail. And so they act- and many of them actually walk around, pretty defense mobilized in their nervous systems, fearful that they're doing it wrong. 

Robyn: Sure. 

Emily: Because they've been overtrained. And it's- and the training is so directed and didactic, that they,- they're always like, “am I doing it right? Am I not doing it right?” You know, so for me when they say just tell me what to do. The reason why I'm often reluctant to do that is because I'm wanting them to feel into the moment to actually take- take inventory of how they're doing in the moment. And that they know, I'm not evaluating, you know, I'm not looking to evaluate that. Do y’know? Because that's- that's a big part of public education is that you get evaluated chronically. And it's- it's been a- it's been an injury to most educators nervous systems. And so I'm trying to actually help them unlearn that, [laughter] in the course of my training. Yeah, because they're, they're used to being told what to do. And they actually don't really know what to do if they're not being told what to do. 

Robyn: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 

Emily: Yeah. Yeah. So it's- so it is a little bit different than maybe in the experiences that you've had with students or with parents. But- but it's funny, I do think, you know, just tell me what to do is a default way of being when you're super overwhelmed.

Robyn: Like, absolutely no, just tell me what to do. Yeah, and the trust in- and I can see how you're right, it is a little different. And educators than parents, although, you know, certainly some parents who the over are told what to do right with, with, you know, parenting Instagram accounts. And it's like, so many people are constantly telling you exactly what to do, and they're all contradicting and. You know? That- that does absolutely cause this, this level of stress, but I can see exactly what you're saying, in the educators and how there's this, you know, over micromanaging of every single thing, and when I think about what it feels like to be micromanaged, yeah, absolutely. I get defense mobilized, because it does leave you with this sense of, “I will inevitably do this wrong”. 

Emily: Exactly. 

Robyn: And I will be in trouble. 

Emily: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That makes a lot of sense. 

Robyn: Well, this has just been so delightful for so many reasons, getting to reconnect with you, just in general, but then just, you know, I find it regulating myself to get reminded of all the other people out there in the world doing really important work. But all the people out there in the world who are- who are so receptive to what you're offering. Like, all of that just feels so grounding and so regulating to me, when I think about really the impact of our work.

Emily: It really- it really is. I mean, honestly, Robyn, that is totally what keeps me going is those folks that say, like, learning about this stuff has changed my life. Like not just my profession, but it changed my life. 

Robyn: Yes. 

Emily: And I, you know, I don't- I have far more self compassion, or I see my students differently, or I see my husband differently, or whatever it might be. And it's-

Robyn: Exactly.

Emily: -it's so affirming to know that people really find it, honestly, as healing as I think you and I have found it. Like, it's just it's just healing to know that the things that we all struggle with are very human. And it doesn't mean that it's a personal failing, because I mean, I certainly was raised on that concept of you know, personal discipline and that all behavior was sort of a reflection of your- your- your capacity for single discipline. Like, can you control yourself? You know, I mean, that's how I was raised was like, gotta control yourself. [laughter] You know? And- and so when you did- when you didn't or you couldn't, you felt- you felt like a failure and you felt ashamed? And that was the point. So, yeah, I think it's, it is very affirming to feel like people are grabbing on to this and running with it and to, to know that, you know, we're helping to support a new paradigm- paradigm to to understand one another and to understand ourselves differently.

Robyn: I'll definitely make sure everybody knows exactly how to find you down in the show notes. But your website is TheRegulatedClassroom now. Is that right?

Emily: It's RegulatedClassroom.com.

Robyn: Okay, no the. Let me say that, again. Let me encode this into everyone's memories correctly. RegulatedClassroom.com?

Emily: Yes, I do think you've can put in ‘the’, it's probably- just probably- I think I own that domain, too. And it just- it'll redirect. Yeah.

Robyn: Okay. And can the tool and the guide books still be purchased individually? 

Emily: Yes. So, um, so the guidebook comes inside the toolkit. So if you buy the toolkit, it's the whole thing where you can purchase this guidebook. Yeah, and I strongly encourage people to check those out on the- on- on the website to see what that is. And also, we've been making an active effort to grow our Instagram following. And so every day we're posting, practically every day anyways. We're posting tips, and reminders, and fun little videos. And Maple, my dog, is a regular feature and a beloved feature on the Instagram reels. And so that's been a fun place to be building as well. We have a small committee, nothing like yours yet, Robyn, but I'm working on it. So I encourage folks to follow us on Instagram and Facebook.

Robyn: Yes, your Instagram right now is on fire. I've definitely noticed that lots of good stuff coming out of that. And you travel, wherever. Doing trainings for educators.

Emily: Correct, correct. So I do international travel, and I do domestic travel, presenting and yeah, and I do virtual work as well. So folks are interested, please reach out to me my email is Emily@HereThisNow.org. H-E-R-E-T-H-I-S-N-O-W.org. Or you can just fill out the contact information on the website and we'll get back to you lickety split. But yeah.

Robyn: Well, thanks for taking your time this morning. And that we had time to just chat beforehand too. [laughter] That was fantastic. 

Emily: Thank you, Robyn, for having me. 

Robyn: Oh, always such a delight to. Like I said, just- just connect with folks who are out there doing the same work with same- the same mission and the same values. It's it really- I think, it’s crucial for us to stay in contact with each other like us as a global community and continue to just keep inspiring one another to keep chugging along. 

Emily: Exactly.

Robyn: So, thank you for everything that you do, and we will do this again soon.

Emily: Yeah! Thank you, Robyn, thank you so much. Great to chat.