Has Trauma Informed Become A Behavior Modification Technique? {EP 54}

Robyn: When the episodes over, head over to my website and see all the great resources I've created for you. You will definitely want to download the free ebook I wrote for you all about The Brilliance of Attachment. Readers have told me that not only is it beautiful, but it teaches attachment in a completely new way. One that makes it understandable and completely shame free as well as like relevant and useful in your real life. So you can get that ebook over at RobynGobbel.com/ebook.

Robyn: Today's episode, like all episodes, is sponsored by The Club, a virtual community of connection, co-regulation and, of course, a little education for parents of kids impacted by trauma. The Club just finished up a deep dive embodied exploration of attachment and we're moving now into an in depth body based learning and implementation of how to strengthen the foundation of the brain. Both ours, the grownups, and our kids, because y'all we could all use a little help. On the day this episode airs October 5th, The Club is still open for new members, but today is the final day. So if you're hearing this episode on Tuesday, October 5th, you're gonna want to pause. Like pause the episode, go now to RobynGobbel.com/TheClub before the doors close, because I don't think I'm going to open them again until February 2022. If you are hearing this episode, after October 5th, you can still head over to RobynGobbel.com/TheClub and add yourself to the waiting list and then you'll be sure that you'll be the first to know when The Club opens again to new members. 

Robyn: So today, y’all, I'm going to be talking about something that I think about a lot. And if you know me personally, you probably also think that this is something I talk about a lot. I don't know that I talk about it as much as I should be talking about it, so I'm dedicating this whole episode to this question of when and how did trauma informed care become another behavior management technique? Plus, I think we should talk about, like, if that did happen, which it did, let's just say it did. Why is that bad, and what can we do about it? Probably like some of you, trauma informed care was my first introduction to a new model on what we believed about behavior, right? It was- it’s a model that goes past the behavior that you see. So it moves kind of outside this behavior lens. And it's a model that encourages us to look way beyond the behavior, to like, get underneath the behavior, and get curious about what was driving the behavior. And you know, that's not how I was trained. That's not the culture I was raised in. That was a big paradigm shift for me. So as a brand new therapist, I remember asking a really good mentor who I was, you know, consulting with about a case and a teen who was demonstrating some behavior that we would all agree was dangerous, scary. Behavior we needed to try to figure out a way to do something about it, and we had this really great clinical discussion about it. And I remember asking him, like, at the end of it, like, okay, all of that's really fine and good. That's fantastic. But what about the consequence, right? And part of why I was asking this is because I wanted to feel competent that I knew what to do. And I knew what to tell his parents what to do. Like, somehow, my 24 year old self knew how to solve this family's problem that they'd been with-, you know, dealing with for a really long time. And if we just think of the right consequence, everything, you know, would get better. And so my very wise and wonderful mentor looked at me with honestly, I'm sure, like a little kind of smirk in his eye, right? That smirk of, you know, an all an older, wiser mentor, who is just lovingly enjoying working with a beginner, kind of, new young padawan, right? And he looks at me and says, What would a consequence accomplish? And I said, well, he needs to know that this behavior isn't okay. And my mentor laughed and said, I'm pretty sure that he knows that. 

Robyn: And y'all, I mean, really, I had to pause, right? I was like, huh, well, he had a point. But then what, right? What are we supposed to do if we aren't giving consequences? Which really is a very curious thought, right? A kid does something that is a clear message of I am not okay. And we adults are focused on what we're supposed to do to make sure that that child knows that what they did wasn't okay. We're not focused on the fact that they're not okay, we're focused on making sure they know what they did wasn't okay. And my mentor was right. Like, without question, this team knew that what he did wasn't okay. He did not need to be taught that. Right? What he needed was grownups in his life, who were willing to get curious and brave, about what on earth was going on, and then try to figure out a way to help him while still offering very clear, solid boundaries. I want to pause there just a second because I said get the kiddo needed- this teen needed adult adults who are willing to get curious and brave. And it took me a while to realize how brave we adults really do have to get in order to get vulnerable enough to acknowledge the truth that when it comes right down to it, we have very little to no control over somebody else's behavior. And, y'all, sometimes that's scary, really scary. Because sometimes some of you are parenting kids with really scary, dangerous behavior, and connecting to the truth that there's very little that we can do to control somebody else's behavior feels so scary. And when we're scared, we as humans get controlling, and it's this that is what leading- is leading us to believing that some sort of consequence or punishment is ultimately, you know, if we can just find the right consequence or the right punishment, you know, that's going to change someone's behavior or at least communicate to them that the behavior is not okay.

Robyn: So here's the thing, I'm human too. I don't like the feeling of not knowing what to do, or a feeling out of control of something, right? But I also couldn't disagree with my colleague that this kid did not need a consequence. And so if my kid doesn’t need a consequence, I was kind of left- it's like, well, I don't really know what else to do then. Right? And I was uncomfortable with that feeling. I was uncomfortable with I don't know what to do, then, which I will say as an aside, I've gotten extremely comfortable with that feeling. That feeling of I don't know what to do. And getting extremely comfortable with that feeling is probably when I moved from being a good therapist to a really excellent therapist. But anyway, because I didn't quite know that I needed to figure out how to be okay with not knowing things. And I really, really wanted to understand like, if it wasn't a consequence that was going to change his kid's behavior, then what on earth was it? I dove in headfirst into the books, the science. I went searching for, well, then what is behavior? What, what really is behavior, and therefore then what do we do to change it? That, of course, led me to Dan Siegel, the field of interpersonal neurobiology, I dove further in, and dove further in, Ultimately, that emerge- that merges into the growing field of the relational neurosciences. And I just obsessively obsessed about what was driving these kids’ behaviors, so that we could better help them. I wanted to help these kids, I wanted to help their families. 

Robyn: At the same time, I was really quite neck deep and raising my own son. And one day I had this aha moment that I really wanted to parent, my son in the way I was supporting the parents in my practice to be with their kids, except that my son hadn't experienced any significant trauma, any trauma behind, you know, beyond being raised by me, and having a mom as a therapist, right? And, additionally, my husband's an educator, and a really good one. And so we were both learning from each other, about how to be with our kids, and our students, our clients, and our colleagues in a way that matched our professional values in theory. But again, those weren't all people with a history of trauma. So where was the line between trauma informed, and just good practice based on what we understood about the neurobiology of being human? And maybe even a better question is, why was there a line?

Robyn: So we took our kid out of a school with a relatively archaic approach to behavior management that we would absolutely all agree is not trauma informed. But I also felt really clear that that behavior management approach wasn't just not trauma informed, it just wasn't a good way to approach kids or students. Any kid, not just kids with a history of trauma. I remember my husband and I looking at each other one evening, after a failed attempt at inspiring some change in our son's school and said to one another, why would we keep our kid in an environment that we spent all of our professional hours speaking out against? And without question, I remained extremely grateful that I’ve have had opportunities in my life, that- and not just opportunities in my life, like privileges in my life, that have allowed me that privilege to make the choice of pulling my kid out of school, while continuing to be a fierce advocate for the families who don't have those kinds of privileges or choices. 

Robyn: Trauma informed approaches aren't just good for kids with a history of trauma. Truly being trauma informed means connecting with what it means to be human, and then understanding the impact of trauma on top of that. So outside my work with parents in the office, and- and their children, I was traveling far and wide speaking to educators, clinicians, parents all over the country, without fail, one or all of these questions would be asked. A question like, “how do I know if this is a trauma related behavior or normal kid behavior”? Or “tell me how to respond to this child who has a history of trauma because of this other child who didn't have a history of trauma was acting this way? I know how to respond and it would be completely different”. Or “I completely agree with trauma informed care, but what about when it doesn't work, doesn't the child need a consequence then”? 

Robyn: So you know me, right? Like I'm obsessed with trying to understand what human behavior is and where it's coming from. And ultimately, I've come to the conclusion that those questions are generally coming from one of two different places. The first place is from a place of people who are just popping out of their own window of tolerance, right? They're being faced with the behavior that's triggering them in a way that they're popping out of their window of tolerance, leaving their prefrontal cortex, and moving into a controlling space, wanting to control the behavior and when we want to control behavior, we move to a consequence or punishment. You know, this is just human. This is what normal humans do when we're stressed, we can controlling, it happens to me too. The other place that that question was coming from is from somebody who had unintentionally turned trauma informed principles into another behavior management technique. They were wanting to use the ideas of connection, felt safety, and co-regulation as a means to an end to get changed behavior, which means that they were still, at their core, believing that kids need some sort of intervention, some sort of punishment or consequence to quote unquote, act right. And they were willing to try these new approaches for kids who had experienced trauma, because there was the hope that this would be the next newest behavior intervention that would get the toughest kids to quote unquote, act right. But what was being missed was that a complete paradigm shift of understanding the neurobiology of behavior was needed, the neurobiology of being human, to be completely trauma informed, we have to shift our entire lens on what behavior really is. Otherwise, it will ultimately just become another behavior management technique. The risk there is that when the technique doesn't work, meaning when behavior isn't overtly changed, we revert back to beliefs like “this child is just defiant”, or “we just need to give a consequence” or what you know was really meaning “we just need to give a punishment”, right?

Robyn: At the foundation of trauma informed care, is the curiosity to look at what's driving behavior and focus on that instead of just the behavior, along with the recognition that trauma impacts people in a way that ultimately comes out as behavior. Right? This is true of all people, right? That, you know, our behavior is just what we can see that is information about what's happening on the inside. Right? It's just giving us clues. I can summarize most, I won't say all, but I will say most, of what we currently understand about the neurobiology of being human, including polyvagal theory, affect regulation theory, the neurosequential model, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all of those. All of those models that we've kind of pulled into relational neuroscience heading with this statement, and if you're not new to me, you know, the same as I say it all the time. Regulated, connected kids, people, who feel safe behave well. And without question we might have to redefine or reexamine what we mean when we say “behave well”. That's a whole other post for a whole other episode. Regulated, connected, kids who feel safe behave well. 

Robyn: Now I have deconstructed those words felt safety, regulation, connection in entire episodes. So you can go back in the podcast, you can find an episode on felt safety, you can find an episode on connection, you can find an episode on regulation, you can find episodes on all of those things combined. I'll give you just a really quick summary here in this episode. Felt safety is about the brain having two settings: a safe or not safe. It's an on off switch. When we feel safe, we have behaviors of connection and when we don't feel safe, we have behaviors of protection. So what's the behavior of protection? Behaviors of protection are the ones that leave you not wanting to be in connection with that person, or their behaviors that are overtly pushing connection away. Basically, they’re the behaviors that have led you to listen to podcasts and read blogs about behavior. 

Robyn: Okay, so regulation, what's regulation? Well, all behavior, and not just relational behavior, but all behavior like brushing your teeth, or riding a bike is driven by levels of energy and arousal in our nervous system. When that energy and arousal is regulated our behavior matches. Regulated doesn't mean calm or happy and you can go back to my interview with Lisa Dion, that episodes called Regulation Doesn't Equal Calm, right, to get more about that concept. But regulated just means inside my window of tolerance, regulated means connected to myself and I have the ability to notice my experience and change it if needed. The kind of behavior that is distressing adult to the most is usually dysregulated behavior, the child's not connected to themselves, and the behavior doesn't match the situation, like flipping over a chair, because you can't have a snack five minutes before dinner. That's a behavior that doesn't match the situation.

Robyn: Then connection, right? We did felt safety, regulation, and connection. Connection we know from science is a biological imperative. That means connection’s our default, we are driven to find connection, be in connection, and our body works better when we are in a space that's open and available for connection. So if our kids are acting in a way that's rejecting or pushing away connection, we have to pause and ask ourselves, huh, that's weird. What's up with that? And here's the thing, y'all, this is true about all humans, all humans, every single one, not just humans who have been impacted by trauma. I know that if you aren't new to my podcast, again, I know this isn't new information. Just hang with me here. And of course, sometimes it's good to- I mean, all the time, not just sometimes, it's good to hear things over and over again. 

Robyn: We have to start with understanding the neurobiology of being human. And then we can layer the impact of trauma on top of that. So if we start with that foundation, about regulation, and, connection, and felt safety, how does trauma impactful safety? Well, again, a whole episode we could devote to this topic, I'll summarize it here to say trauma leaves people more likely to experience situations that are neutral or even positive as unsafe. Meaning they're more likely to- to feel unsafe, when we would objectively look at the experience and say that that's a safe experience, their- their default is not safe, right? Which means the default tends to move towards behaviors of protection instead of behaviors of connection. And then regulation, how trauma impacts the development of regulation in our autonomic nervous system, which impacts all sorts of things. But the one thing I'll mention here is that this impact on regulation leads to the mountain out of a molehill phenomenon, right? That people with a history of trauma and how that impacts our regulation can have really big reactions to objectively small stressors. And then connection, trauma can leave connection, something that's supposed to bring a felt sense of safety to our system, as something that instead brings a felt sense of threat. Now, connection is a biological imperative. We're always searching for connection, we need connection to be okay, and connection is a way that we soothe and feel safe. So what's it like to be driven towards something, to need something in order to feel soothed and safe that is also experienced as threatening because of what one has learned from previous experiences’ connection- in connection? So again, pause and think about that for a moment. And then if you're more curious about this, head back to the episode on Disorganized Attachment, and again, think about what would it be like to be both simultaneously driven towards something, to need to have something as part of being human while also experiencing that something as dangerous or threatening, right? There's really hardly a greater tragedy. 

Robyn: Now, I've sometimes worried about and I've even gotten some feedback that I've unintentionally minimized the impact of trauma by first focusing on the neurobiology of being human. Laying trauma informed principles on top of the neurobiology of being human is how we truly recognize and honor the impact of trauma. And I've just come into a space where I believe that in totality. That first thinking about the neurobiology of being human doesn't minimize the impact of trauma or minimize the need for trauma informed care, it actually elevates it. What if, without thinking about the neurobiology of being human, trauma informed care is actually reduced to a behavior management technique? What if people with a history of trauma who don't produce the desired behavior in response to someone's trauma informed intervention is just labeled as just defiant, or needing a punishment or consequence? 

Robyn: But y’all, regretfully obviously, these aren't just what ifs, these are things I see happening every day. If we can shift our lens and see behavior as an expression of someone's internal state, their autonomic nervous system, their level of arousal, their experience of felt safety, we change how we see everyone's behavior, we shift to a place where compassion emerges and boundaries are clear. We create systems and cultures that are not only a space for all humans to thrive, but are especially a place for people with a history of trauma to thrive. Changing how we see people changes people. People with a history of trauma are people first, then the way trauma has impacted the development of their nervous system, their regulation, their connection to felt safety, their ability to feel safe in connection, and even the way they make and retrieve memories can then be understood. On top of that, layering the impact of trauma on top of what we know about what it means to be relationally, socially, and behaviorally human. 

Robyn: People with a history of trauma aren't broken. They're having a completely reasonable adaptive response to experiences that they never should have had. The neuroscience of being human confirms this. To be truly, truly trauma informed, we have to go beyond being trauma informed, we have to be willing to turn upside down our beliefs, and the systems upon which we've built those beliefs about what it means to be human. This means confronting all the times someone has treated us in a way that taught us we needed to be punished in order to be good. This means confronting all the times we've treated others that way. And y'all that's hard, and gutsy, and brave, and you're doing it. We're doing it by just, you know, listening to this podcast by listening this far, by coming back every week. We're changing the world for generations to come. Forever. Right? We're creating a space for people to heal from trauma. And maybe, maybe we're creating a space where people experience less trauma, because all humans are seen for who they really are: completely amazing, precious people who sometimes act bad. I mean, sometimes act really bad. 

Robyn: Alright y'all I mean, really seriously, I just can't even hardly express my gratitude that you're here that you've listened this far, you're still here, you still keep coming back. You love kids this much. You love yourself this much. What we are doing here together, me and you and everyone who's listening, it's changing the world, y'all. Let's just keep doing this! I'll see you next week.