Marshall Lyles is a therapist, author, poet, trainer, advocate, and thought-leader.  Mostly though, he is a dear friend. 

I asked Marshall to come on the podcast to talk about disability, ableism, and parenting kids with vulnerable nervous systems. 

I couldn’t possibly capture the beauty of my conversation with Marshall in a short summary.  This is an episode you absolutely want to listen to in order to get the full impact.  If you have barriers to listening to the podcast, scroll down to click and read the full transcript.  

Disability

I asked Marshall to get us started by defining disability.  

The unnecessary experience of isolation and struggle resulting from an uninspired world’s lack of empathic forethought. – Marshall Lyles

Marshall emphasized that a disability can be visible or invisible, and it can impact the body, mind or both.  

So many of the children I work with have what Eileen Devine calls a “brain-based disability with behavioral symptoms.”  

This brain-based disability could be due to trauma, a neuroimmune disorder, in-utero alcohol exposure, neurodivergence, or some other circumstance that has led to vulnerability in the nervous system.  

Impairment versus Disability

Are all impairments a disability?  For example- I am completely, 100% deaf in my right ear.  It’s an impairment for sure, but it has never felt like a disability.  When I asked Marshall about the difference between an impairment and a disability, he replied with “Is there a part of you that the world has not thought to welcome? Then that becomes a disability.”

He also emphasized that if the world was inclusive, most impairments would never move to the social category of being a disability. 

Ableism

Ableism is keeping the world most convenient for people whose bodies and minds operate like yours, fueled by the fear that your own body and mind will inevitably change in ways you like to pretend isn’t real. – Marshall Lyles

Let’s contextualize ableism when speaking specifically about kids with big, baffling behaviors with this question- in what ways do we as adults (in parenting, or in education, or in any system that involves children) work to make the world most convenient for ourselves, insisting on conformity to systems that were created by preferencing neurotypical nervous systems?

Ableism, for me, shows up when we ask the most vulnerable person in the room (the child with a vulnerable nervous system) to make the hardest adjustment and accommodations so that they can be OK inside a world and with expectations that weren’t created with them in mind.  

Ableism and Big, Baffling Behaviors

I’ve had to do a lot of soul-searching these past few years, looking inward and asking myself when my work as a therapist preferenced helping the adults, not the children, by trying to get the children to change.  

Even the movement away from behaviorism and toward co-regulation and nervous system health is, in many ways, still rooted in ableism.  In many ways, the focus on co-regulation has become another path toward getting someone to act the way we want them to.

I appreciated so much how Marshall clarified what true co-regulation is.  

Co-regulation is about asking ‘What do you need in this moment?’ not ‘How do I shape you into some preconceived socially accepted version of yourself?’ 

Trauma Informed Care and Ableism

Regrettably, in many systems, Trauma Informed Care has become about understanding and accommodating the impact of trauma so that people with a history of trauma will act like the people who don’t have trauma.

This paradigm- getting people with a history of trauma to act like people who don’t- forces us to overlook the brilliance of trauma adaptations.  A sensitized nervous system is a brilliant way for a nervous system to adapt to living in a world that is traumatic.  

I asked Marshall: “How do we get to the point where we can understand the impact of trauma and the brilliance of the adaptations that the nervous system has made, while also recognizing that those adaptations have come with great cost?”

We agreed that there is no answer to that question, but that isn’t an excuse to stop asking the question.  We need the humility and bravery to show up every day and ask that question even if there is never an answer.

What if, Marshall asked, we stopped focusing on the symptoms and instead focused on meeting the needs that were originally violated, neglected, or misused?

I wonder how we might change if we were willing to love the parts of people that kept them alive? – Marshall Lyles

Ableism and Advocacy

This podcast conversation was largely Marshall and me asking big, unanswerable questions.  When our kids are struggling, how do we know when we are supposed to simply offer co-regulation and presence through the struggle versus using our power as parents to lessen or change their struggle?

When our kids are struggling, whether that’s at home or at school, when is it time to step in and acknowledge that perhaps our kids are having a very reasonable reaction to being inside a system that has expectations for them that are absurd?  So often, the grown-ups in a system, just keep insisting “Sorry, this is the system!  Figure it out!”

When do we shift into advocacy? 

Honestly, I think the answer to this question is very uncomfortable for me because then I have to come face-to-face with all the times I’ve focused my energy on helping people cope with a system instead of using my energy to advocate for system change.  

I know that sometimes I parent out of ways that are making my life easier in the moment as opposed to staying focused on what my child needs to be his truest self, and to be seen as his truest self, in that moment. I’d like to think I don’t do that very often, but I probably do more often than I realize.  

What If Change Isn’t the Point?

Marshall and I wrapped up our conversation by asking what would happen if we stopped looking at the symptoms of PTSD as something that had to change.  What would be different if we stopped asking “How do we get rid of the symptoms of PTSD?”

We agreed that everything would be different.  And it would still be possible- even likely- that the PTSD symptoms would alleviate, bringing deserved relief to that individual.  

Connect more with Marshall

https://www.marshalllyles.com/

The Workshop (more than a training space for healers) https://therapistsworkshop.com/

Marshall’s Miniatures https://therapistsworkshop.com/collections

Listen on the Podcast

This blog is a short summary of a longer episode on the Parenting after Trauma podcast.

Find the Parenting after Trauma podcast on Apple Podcast, Google, Spotify, or in your favorite podcast app.

Or, you can read the entire transcript of the episode by scrolling down and clicking ‘transcript.’

Robyn

Would you like to explore a complete paradigm-shift on how we see behavior? You can watch my F R E E 45(ish) minute-long masterclass on What Behavior Really Is and How to Change It.

Just let me know where to send the links!