5 Tips from our Top 5 Episodes for our 5th Birthday! {EP 247}

Robyn: So my plan had been to do these Facebook Lives, and then I had these recordings, and I was like, well, it's silly not to use these recordings, right? I should put them into a podcast. And gosh, y'all, I think I did that like four times, maybe before I realized I didn't want to show up live on Facebook. I'm comfortable on video, and I do video work a lot, but I'm also not a super structured person, and I wanted to be able to just sit down and open my podcast recording software and talk, as opposed to like scheduling these Facebook Lives. And also that meant I had to be camera ready, and all these things which are not none of them are a big deal. I don't necessarily dislike any of those things. It just created another like friction point when all I wanted to do was sit down and create helpful, helpful podcast for you. It's interesting. The podcast was was both like a whim, but also something that had been in the back of my mind for really, for years, I had even bought, like, a course on how to develop and launch a podcast truly, years before my husband's an audio guy, we have all the equipment I would need to create a decent podcast. So podcasting was always one of those things that seemed I don't know, kind of like a no brainer or an obvious thing for me to do, but I just never really took the leap. And then, for some I don't even know what reason I thought I would try do these Facebook Lives, and then I had this thought of like, well, I've got these recordings. I'll just put them into a. Podcast feed, Easy enough, right? I mean, I'd been investigating podcasting for years, and over the course of just a couple days, I remember we were out of town for several day medical treatment for my husband, and it was a pretty boring couple days, because these treatments were very brief, yet they had to happen over the course of several consecutive days, and so we had a lot of downtime. And during that downtime was when I got the podcast locked and loaded and it launched probably the next week or so, which is sort of my MO. 

Robyn: I tend to think about things for a very long time and then move into execution and finalizing it. Then really, really, really quickly. So anyway, that was December, early December of 2020 and now as we move into early December 2025 and we have crossed our fifth birthday mark. There are 247 episodes. This is the 247th and if I had been planning ahead a little bit better, I probably could have taken the steps to make sure this was the 250th episode. But such is life. That's just sort of how I roll. 247 episodes, I'm at 1.6 million plus downloads. We are reaching families, kids, professionals all over the world. I knew podcasting was impactful. That was what interested me in podcasting. I've been a podcast listener for a long, long, long time. I really love listening to podcasts. I have, like, my favorite podcast that I listen to. And there does come a point where you feel like you know this person, and I knew that that would be helpful for y'all, the medium of podcasting. So podcasting always made sense to me. Yeah, I really didn't, I guess, kind of know what I was getting into. And here we are, five years later, almost 250 episodes later. I don't know if you know this, but if you go to Robyn gobbel.com/podcast on my website, there's a search bar, so if you're looking for a topic, you can go to my website and see if I have anything related to that topic that's always been one of my goals is to have my website be a resource for y'all. I'm actually in the middle of a website redesign, and it should become an even better, more useful, more user friendly resource for y'all. But yeah, if you ever have a topic, you're like, Oh, I wonder if robyn's ever talked about this on the podcast. Just go to RobynGobbel.com/podcast and use that search bar. Now if you are a long time listener of the podcast, you might remember that in June of 2023 so almost two and a half years ago, I guess, I guess at this point, like the halfway point of the podcast, is when I shifted the podcast from parenting after trauma to the baffling behavior show. I was getting a lot of feedback from folks that the word trauma was having a hard time landing with a lot of folks, and I thought really long and hard about that, Did I really want to pull out the trauma piece from the podcast title, in the attempt to you know of reaching more people, or did I want to keep the podcast really, really narrowly focused on one very specific population? And I'm not sure that I made the right choice or not, but I do know that shifting the name of the podcast has absolutely brought in listeners who otherwise wouldn't have been open to listening to the podcast.

Robyn: Past, and for that, I am infinitely grateful y'all, because that means more people are learning about the science of the nervous system. More people are learning about how the nervous system impacts behaviors. More people are learning about how your kids aren't bad. They have a vulnerable nervous system, or a sensitized stress response system, and y'all, that is only a good thing. I actually think we could pull back even further, and I don't want to do this, and I'm not going to do this, but the science of the nervous system and how that translates to behavior is not only true for folks with vulnerable nervous systems, right? This is true for all kids, all humans. And when I imagine that everybody understood that, when I imagine that everybody understood that, it's hard to even conceptualize what would be different, how we would talk about people, how we would feel towards people, how we would connect and cooperate, how we would provide folks with the supports that they needed in order to be as successful as possible, how we would be willing to have the folks with the least vulnerabilities make the biggest sacrifices in order to support folks with the most vulnerabilities, and then what that would do to change our communities, our cultures and and the sense of self of the folks in this world who have such vulnerabilities. 

Robyn: So anyway, I'm not even suggesting for one second that I'm going to change the name of the podcast or the focus of the podcast, that anyway, we're always going to stay focused on kids and grown ups with sensitized stress response systems and vulnerable nervous systems. But the truth is, is the science applies to everyone, and if we could really make that shift in the world, our kids would have it easier. Our kids would have it easier. So anyway, I went off on a little tangent that wasn't on my script. All right, here's what we're gonna do next. Y'all, I've got five of my top episodes, and I'm gonna give you a piece of those episodes, like what was most helpful from those episodes? I'll, of course, tell you where you can go find those episodes. I'll make sure that's in the show notes, and all of them have a free download that accompany them. So I will tell you where you go find that as well. So top five episodes, five tips for our fifth birthday. Our top two episodes are part of the same series. The number one, top episode that we have here on the podcast, the one that's been downloaded by far the most is boundaries with connection. Here's my thought about why that episode is so popular we are desperate to make sense of the word boundaries. Folks say things like, you just need to have better boundaries, as if that's like the magic sauce. And if we could just figure out how to have better boundaries, our kids would behave better. Now, if we really pause and think about that for a second, that doesn't really even make a ton of sense, without question, kids need us to have solid boundaries. Okay, that's that is non negotiable, for sure. But to think that the path towards, you know, quote, unquote, fixing our kids with sensitized stress response systems is is that we have better boundaries, is relatively preposterous. 

Robyn: Now, yeah, like I said, do all of us need to look at maybe how we could tighten up boundaries and create more structure, routine, predictability in our families. Of Of course, I me too. I get a little lackadaisical. We loosen things up without really in being intentional about it, and all of a sudden I have a moment of whoops. I've kind of let things slide. We need to tighten up these boundaries a little bit. Sure, sure, sure. That's probably true for everyone listening that occasionally we could re examine, you know, how we are connected to our boundaries inside our families and in our parenting, but is have better boundaries. This May. Magical solution to fix everything? No, of course not, of course not, of course not, of course not. If it was, and I say this about all kind of overly simplified bordering on trite parenting advice, if it were that easy, none of y'all would even be here. You would have figured that out by now. You would have watched an Instagram reel or a Tiktok video, and you would have figured it out by now. I know that we're all really desperate for that truth, like to find like, the one thing that's going to change things, and that's my guess about why the boundaries series is so popular, while also y'all have some awareness and recognition that it's just in no way that simple, right? So boundaries with connection actually starts with redefining what boundaries actually are like what that word even means. I guess it's not really a redefining. It's more of a remembering what the actual definition is, because we tend to conflate the word boundaries with consequences, punishments, and then, frankly, being able to control someone else's behavior, right? Usually, when we say, just have better boundaries, like the unspoken part of that text is, if you had better boundaries, your kid would have better behavior, with the implication that boundaries allow us to control people. It's just not true at all. Right. Boundaries are about us. 

Robyn: Boundaries are what we determine we are okay with and what we're going to do if we're in relationship with somebody who crosses or violates those boundaries, and our options in parenting are actually not that great, right? Right? Like, if I'm in a personal relationship with somebody and they're continually, quote, unquote, crossing my boundaries, talking to me in a way that is unacceptable, like really being disrespectful, something like that. That's what's coming to mind right now, being physically aggressive, for heaven's sakes, right? Like, if I was in a personal, adult, mutual relationship with somebody who is regularly violating those boundaries, I would likely move towards ending that relationship, or at the very least, really boundarying the kind of contact I had with that relationship. Well, we can't do that with our kids, right? So we have to figure out a different way to be committed to and connected to our own boundaries. So boundaries with connection really focused on de shaming, the idea of boundaries, right? We hear the word boundaries and and we think, Oh, we're really bad at this because our My kid is out of control. No, no, no, no, no, okay, let's re or D shame the word boundaries. Look at what the word boundary really means. So then we can empower you to enforce or hold a boundary that's actually possible, right? The other thing about boundaries is that they really require us to be

Robyn: in our owl brain, right? To set a boundary, to be in connection with our own boundary really means that we're in our own owl brain. So of course, that was a big focus of that episode as well. So boundaries with connection was part one of a three part series. Part two is not on the top five lists. Part Two is about boundaries that create success. How do we essentially create, like the bumpers or the scaffolding our kids need in order to be okay in the world is kind of like toddler proofing, right? Those are boundaries. We're recognizing our kids developmental capacity and placing, in many ways, environmental boundaries in so that we can, you know, create as much opportunity as possible for our kids to be successful. So that's part two of the series, boundaries that create success. Part Three of the series was my second most popular episode on the podcast, and it was with a guest, Julianne Taylor shore, where I invited her to come and talk about boundaries with verbal aggression. Boundaries with verbal aggression, y'all, is so so so tricky, because obviously having somebody be verbally aggressive towards us is extremely dysregulating. In no way, shape or form can we. Control what comes out of someone else's mouth. And while there are many, many, many things that we can do to scaffold our kids ability to be honest about their feelings, be emphatic about their feelings, like if they even if they're feeling like mad, right? They can be honest, they can be emphatic, they can communicate clearly without being aggressive. Okay, that is actually possible, and we absolutely can scaffold that in our kids. Probably one of my most popular or beloved master classes inside the club is about helping kids find their voice and really supporting kids and giving them the skills that they need to effectively communicate their experience, Even if they're very mad, effectively communicate their experience without being aggressive. 

Robyn: That's not what boundaries with verbal aggression is about. But my point is is there are some things we can do to scaffold that skill in our kids. You know that they can use non aggressive words to communicate what what it is that they're trying to communicate and boundaries with verbal aggression. I invited Julianne Taylor shore into the podcast to talk about those like in the moment, experiences where we're with somebody who's being verbally aggressive or not very nice, or swearing or cussing, or, you know, they're not being violent. So we don't have to take steps to stop the violence, but our bodies can feel like it's violent, right? And so we have a pretty big watchdog reaction, and then often what that ends up doing, even though this makes perfect sense that we react this way, what that, what it ends means we end up doing is escalating the situation, instead of de escalating it. Now we're at the risk of verbal aggression becoming physical aggression. We certainly want to avoid that as much as possible, and we are also missing an opportunity for CO regulation that would then decrease the likelihood of this behavior in the future, while also decreasing the possibility that we can do some of the other scaffolding and skill building to help our kids communicate their feelings in a different kind of way. So Julianne came on the podcast and talked about the way that she looks at what she calls psychological boundaries and how we have our responsibility to take care of our own inner world and keep our own inner world separate from our kids inner world and When our kids are using, you know, intense verbal aggression, or they're being, you know, snide or humiliating, or even lying, manipulating those kinds of things, right? The the protection mode behavior is being expressed verbally, right? 

Robyn: We have the responsibility to see that behavior as an expression of their inner world, and it's an expression of, you know, what's happening for them, and then keep what's happening for us separate from that and her way of doing this is through the process of developing strong psychological boundaries, which will never mean that this verbally aggressive behavior isn't hurtful. It'll never mean it just like bounces off of us. This is not about like Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. No, no, no. Words really hurt, and it's also possible to feel hurt by those words and know with certainty that those words aren't about you, but they're about the state of your child's nervous system. And the first step towards being able to, you know, set a boundary, offer, co regulation, offer, felt safety, right? The first step would be able to offer any of those things, which will then ultimately. Immediately decrease the verbal aggression in the long run, right? The first step of being able to offer any of those things is to keep ourselves and our own regulations separate from our child's regulation. We don't want to merge with it. We don't want to, you know, kind of become engulfed by their dysregulation. We want to see their dysregulation and acknowledge that it's very hurtful, but also have a strong psychological boundary so that the words don't feel personal and therefore like tug at all of our own dysregulation circuits, right? But instead we see their words as information about the state of their nervous system. This is a super powerful episode. 

Robyn: Super powerful episode. I think it is one of the most important things for somebody in relationship with somebody else with somebody else with a vulnerable nervous system to really practice and strengthen and grow that psychological boundary. Julianne's work is so solidly grounded in the relational neurosciences, it's very aligned with everything else that happens here on this podcast. It is a fabulous episode. If you haven't listened to it, you're absolutely one gonna want to go and listen to it, and I have a boundaries downloadable infographic too. All the infographics I'm gonna mention in today's episode are all available in our free resource hub, so you only have to go to Robyn gobbel.com/free, resource hub, sign up for it, and then every resource I'm going to mention here in this podcast will be there. Okay, so you don't have to go and find them individually, request them or download them all individually. No, you just go to the free resource hub, sign up and yet, then you'll have immediate access to all these different downloads. So there is a boundaries with connection download that highlights the most important parts of all three episodes from that boundaries series boundaries with connection Part one is episode 111 Part Two is episode 113 and part three, boundaries with verbal aggression is episode 115 the third most downloaded episode on the baffling behavior show is actually a somewhat new episode. It was recorded and aired, I think this calendar year, if not this calendar year, then at the very end of 2024,

Robyn: but that's the episode. All behavior makes sense. It's episode 198 and it looks like it was recorded and aired at the end of last calendar year, Episode 198 so all behavior makes sense. What that episode does is summarize and highlight the science that brings me to that conclusion, that all behavior makes sense, no behavior is maladaptive. In the moment that the behavioral neuronal impulse fires, right in the moment that that neuron fires, the behavior that we eventually see makes perfect sense. It matches what was happening in the nervous system at the moment that neuron fired. Now the impact of that behavior certainly might feel like it doesn't make sense, and it certainly could be called, quote, unquote, maladaptive, but the moment the behavioral impulse is fired in the brain. It matches, it makes perfect sense, to everything else that's happening inside the brain and the nervous system. And so that episode talks about all sorts of things. It talks about neuroception. It talks about the nervous system being in a state of connection or protection, and how it makes that choice. 

Robyn: That episode talks about how our minds construct reality, how we are processing 11 million bits of data in every unfolding moment. We're only aware of somewhere between five and 50 of them. So our brain is processing and making sense of so much more than what we have any awareness of, and our minds aren't only focused on what's happening in the here and now. Our minds are also pulling in all of our memories and all of our past experiences to help us. Make sense of what's happening in the here and now, in fact, in a moment that is reflective of, let's say, appropriate. That might not be the right word I'm looking for, but when memory processing has not gone awry, when memory processing has not gone awry, and every moment we are using what's available to us in the here and now as only about 20% of how we're really making sense of what's happening in the here and now. I hope that makes sense, right, like what's actually happening in the here and now, and how we're making sense of it. Those aren't the same thing, right? And so what I talk about is kind of thinking about these like two streams that come together. There's the stream of the now and the stream of the past, and they come together to create, like our river of like subjective reality in the moment. The stream of the now is only about 20% of that river, and the stream of the past is about 80% of that river. And that's true in all brains. When the stream of the past is also carrying a lot of overwhelming, traumatic, unintegrated experiences, that stream of the past becomes like a tsunami of the past, and the past becomes way more relevant to how we're making sense of reality, way more relevant. 

Robyn: And so in this way, when we think about neuroception, when we think about how we're processing 11 bits of millions data, you know, in every unfolding moment and we think about our stream of the now and the stream of the past in that way, it makes total sense why our kids nervous system is in protection mode, even if they are, objectively speaking, safe. Why they're in protection mode, right? So when we're in protection mode, we're going to have protection mode behaviors. We're going to be on the watchdog or possum pathway, right? And sometimes this is not going to feel like it makes sense to us, but it makes sense to our kid into their nervous system. Then all of their memories are impacting how they're making sense of what's happening and and also helping them predict what's about to happen next. We predict what's about to happen next based on all of the things that we know have happened to the past, right? And so if I have a history of trauma, then I'm often predicting that the thing that is going to happen next is going to be a bad thing, and I'm reacting to that before it actually even happens. That's how the brain works. We're all reacting to things based on what we think is going to happen before it even happens. But for kids with vulnerable nervous systems, they're largely anticipating that the thing that's going to happen next, the thing that they're reacting to before it even happens, is going to be bad or stressful or uncomfortable. 

Robyn: So this merging of these different pieces of the science together, and I'm sure there's also so much more that I don't even know about. These are just the pieces that I've learned about and feel really relevant to me, and how we're making sense of our and our kids' behaviors, right? These elements of how our brain is making sense of what's happening in the here and now and then the nervous system is adapting, and then a behavioral impulse fires, right? I've put that all together in the all behavior makes sense. Episode, and yes, there is a one page summarizing infographic that goes along with it. So the all behavior makes up makes sense. Episode is in a like tell you what to do episode, but it is core. It is foundational. It is, in my opinion, kind of non negotiable, to really understanding this approach of regulation, connection and felt safety. It really helps bring our focus back to the nervous system and tending to that, as opposed to, you know, addressing the behavior. But how do we help our kids streams come together in a way that helps them feel safe when they actually are safe? Okay, so that was, what did I say? Episode 198 there is a one pager infographic that succinctly summarizes the pieces that I offer in all behavior makes sense. And again, you can get that infographic in the free resource hub at Robyn gobbel.com/free The resources the fourth episode that is on the most popular podcast list. My fourth most popular podcast is also part of a longer series, and it's my opposition and defiant behavior series. So I have a four part series on oppositional behavior, and we're really looking at the science of opposition, what contributes to oppositional behavior,

Robyn: and then that helps us take steps to shift the nervous system so we can invite our kids to shift out of oppositional and defiant behavior. That series really, really highlights and emphasizes that oppositional behavior is coming from the from protection mode. And in some ways it'd be easy to say like, well, that goes without saying, but oppositional behavior is so triggering, it is really easy to lose sight of the nervous system impact. And if we can help the nervous system shift out of protection mode by offering more cues of safety, we are going to eventually see a decrease in oppositionality, or at least see an increase in the flexibility of the nervous system. So we might still, you know, some people have a tendency to shift easily into protection mode, especially when there's a demand or they're being asked to do something that they don't want to do. Some people do Shift really easily. Those Those things are interpreted as as big cues of danger. But what can happen is we can increase the flexibility in the nervous system and of neuroception, like shifting first into protection mode, but then being able to relatively quickly and with relative ease shift back into connection mode. So episode one in the oppositional and defiant series really provides an overview of what oppositional defiant behavior is and where it comes from. Now, again, this is a four part series, so the series just gets deeper and deeper and deeper, and ultimately the series ends up addressing. 

Robyn: Well, what about for kids where connection isn't a cue of safety, right? Because when we're thinking about oppositional defiant behavior, my first quote, unquote, line of defense is increased connection, okay, but what about for kids who experience connection as a cue of danger. What do we do then? And so we talk about the science of that, and then we address that by talking about, how do we titrate safety and connection? So episode one, it made my top five list. It is a four part series, so you might be interested in all four parts, and I do have an oppositional and defiant infographic explains the science of oppositional behavior. So it's a real, great reminder for you, but it also could be something that could be a good reminder or good way to, you know, offer this information to somebody who's supporting you in parenting, a partner, grandparent, your child's teacher, people like that. That is again over in the free resource hub, there actually is an infographic that goes along with all four of the episodes we keep the one from episode one in the free resource hub. The other three are kept over in the club resource library. So there's about 25 free resources and the free resource hub, they are available to everyone, everyone, and we're pretty regularly adding more. Over in the club resource library, we have 80 plus downloadable resources in there, including a infographic that goes along with all of the episodes of the oppositional series. So episode two, three and four have their own infographics, and those are stored in the club resource library. 

Robyn: All right, y'all then the fifth most popular episode is when parenting is traumatic. This is an older episode, Episode 95, Five fact this was, I'm almost certain, an episode that I recorded when we were still the parenting after trauma, episode when parenting is traumatic. Episode is one that I probably get the most emails about if I have social media that you know corresponds to this episode. It gets shared a ton, a lot of comments. It is an episode that seems to really validate, for parents, a truth or a reality that largely goes unseen, unvalidated and even shamed and minimized, right? And some folks will be brave enough to talk about secondary trauma and parenting a child who's experienced trauma, but parenting a child who's experienced trauma has a vulnerable nervous system, big, baffling behaviors. You know, even if they're not related to trauma, is traumatic itself. It is not secondary trauma. It is traumatic itself. It is traumatic to be in a constant relationship with somebody with this much dysregulation in their nervous system. But what actually is most traumatic about it is how there's not not enough available to support you on this parenting journey. Right? Like, how many parents tell me about their professionals who have minimized their concerns outright, not believed them gas lit them, right? That's that's traumatic. It's traumatic to have a child you're trying to help and have nobody believe you or blame you for it instead. Right? The resources our kids need and our families need, they quite literally don't exist. And in the communities where they maybe do exist, or at least have some of them. They're very, very hard to access. I don't think I've ever met a family who was as resourced as they needed to be and as they deserve to be, as they were parenting this vulnerable, vulnerable child who really needs a lot of support and services. So our families are wildly under resourced. It is extremely lonely and isolating to be parenting a child with a significant special need, and there's a kind of unique flavor. It's not better or worse, but there's kind of a unique flavor to parenting a child whose special need comes out as behavioral symptoms, because we don't culturally see behavior as a symptom of a problem. We see behavior as information about somebody's goodness, like our child, as well as our goodness as parents, right? And so the loneliness and the isolation of parenting a child with a subsidized stress response system can become traumatic. The Judgment that we receive from others can become traumatic, the helplessness to be able to protect the other people in our family, particularly our other kids, that can become traumatic, the amount of grief that's involved in parenting somebody with such vulnerability in their nervous system, such debilitating behavioral symptoms, the amount of grief is significant. 

Robyn: This is just a few things I touch on in that episode. We really look at why parenting a child with a vulnerable nervous system can be traumatic. So this is another one of those. I'm trying to see you, validate you, because even though that doesn't fix any of those problems, being seen being believed, those are cues of safety. Being seen being believed can contribute to the possibility that the experiences you're having are always going to be very bad, but they don't have to land in the nervous system as traumatic, being seen, being believed, are the antidotes. Not always the only antidote that's needed, but it's an antidote to an experience becoming traumatic. So I can't change the fact that this is a really hard experience, and you're not resourced enough, and people don't believe you, and professionals are gaslighting you. I mean, I can do what I can to impact that. That's what my immersion program is really geared towards, cultivate professionals who believe you right, and who are not gaslighting you and are not minimizing you. And really. Understand what's happening for you, you know, so I can make my impact in my own way, but ultimately, these are systemic problems that I don't have a lot of impact over. But what I can do is create things that hopefully help you feel really seen, and help you feel believed, and help you feel essentially like not bonkers yourself.

Robyn: And so over in my free resource hub, I have a couple resources for parents that can be helpful who are experiencing, you know, parenting is traumatic, and one of my favorites, and one of our very most popular ones, is the what to do in your nervous system is fried infographic. It's this very brilliant graphic based, image based handout. So there's, you know, let's say 50 things to do in your nervous system, to just ride, and there's a graphic or an image for each of them. So it's very easy to process, very easy to glance at quickly. And I've also absolutely, you know, watched people pick this infographic up and look at it and really, actually find it to be quite delightful, and that, in and of itself, is a moment of caring for your own fried nervous system. So like I said, all of these free resources are in the free resource hub. Robyn gobbel.com/free, resource hub. So there we are. We've got five top episodes. We've got tips from each of those five episodes for our fifth birthday. Y'all, this has been an experience that I could never have dreamed of. You know, when I started the podcast, what it would turn into the longevity of it, the impact it's having, how many people are listening to it, and what you tell me about how you're impacted by it. Some of you I know, and some of you I don't know and will never meet, and are still being impacted. And that is absolutely wild to me. I'm so so so grateful for that. I'm so grateful for technology. I'm so grateful for the science of resonance and how we can create resonance and create this healing experience in this audio format without me even knowing you like it's just unbelievable to me. If you have been listening since episode one, I am just so so so grateful. If this is your first episode, I'm also so grateful for you. I'm so glad you tuned in. I hope you'll stick around for a little bit. Check out other episodes on the podcast. 

Robyn Gobbel  48:02

Check out my free resource hub. Go to Robyn gobbel.com/podcast and search for you know, topics that you're interested in. And y'all from here, we're just gonna keep going right like we're just gonna keep getting up every day and doing what we're doing every day, and you're gonna keep getting up every day and doing what you do, and I'm gonna keep getting up every day and doing what I do, and that means podcast, that means resources, that means writing projects. Actually the day that this episode airs, I am meeting with my publisher to submit the manuscript for the guided journal that we're publishing that will accompany raising kids with big, baffling behavior. So I'm going to keep getting up every day and doing what I do. You're going to keep getting up every day and doing what you do, because you don't really have a whole lot of choice in that. And we're going to keep getting up every day and connecting with one another in whatever ways it is that we connect. In my email list, here on the podcast, over in the club, maybe you're an immersion student or an immersion student graduate, right? And we've got all the ways that me and you can connect through the immersion program, whatever it is, we're just going to keep doing it. Relationship matters. Connection heals. co-regulation is the foundation, right? Safety is the foundation. And me and you, we're going to keep cultivating those things. 

Robyn: And y'all. This is my last new episode of 2025, I always take, usually right four weeks off in December to January, around the holiday season and end of year, beginning of new year. It's a really busy time here at. My business, and I've got a cohort graduating, and I've got another cohort coming in, and I like to make sure that my team has some time off around the holidays, so after today, you can tune in for the next couple of weeks to some replays. I always cultivate a very thoughtful list of replays that were that I air over this very stressful and dysregulating time for y'all. So episodes will keep appearing, and actually several a week will keep appearing in your podcast app. But we will be back in early January or mid January with a brand new episode of The baffling behavior show. I cannot wait to be with you in mid January, and I send you all of my connection co regulation offerings of safety, all of them that I can and hope that you can receive those and that that matters for you during this next month. Thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing to support kids, to support yourself, and to bring this paradigm, this belief that people are good, and sometimes they really struggle, and we can help them by addressing the state of their nervous system, not by using punitive behavioral management techniques. Thank you for everything that you're doing to really spread these ideas all over the globe. Happy birthday to the baffling behavior show and y'all, I will be back with you again in January.