What if Trauma Informed…Isn’t? {EP 134}

Robyn: Y'all I am about to enter into full on about to publish a book mode, my book, Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors: Brain-Body-Sensory Strategies That Really Work. And yeah, I know that's a mouthful, but it was supposed to come out in April. And due to life, y'all. like just due to the way the world works, it was delayed until September 21st. So we are kind of moving into full on, let's get this book out into the world mode. I have so many fun things to share with you and the upcoming months as we get ready for Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors to hit the bookshelf. You can go to RobynGobbel.com/book, read about the book, you can preorder it, there's even a way you can pre order a signed copy.

Robyn: Big baffling behaviors has come to be this way that the folks that I serve have really started to come together. Whether that is about parenting a child with a history of trauma, or whether that's being in relationship with somebody with a vulnerable nervous system. Whether that's parenting a child with some other kind of nervous system vulnerability. My expertise is how complex, developmental, and attachment trauma impacts the stress response system and ultimately, it can leave us with these vulnerabilities that contribute to these big, baffling behaviors. But as so many of you listening have noticed, like, at the core of this is really what it means to be human. And then being with the parts of us or the parts of our kids that do have these various experiences that have contributed to some vulnerabilities. And yes, sometimes that's trauma, sometimes that's neurodiversity, sensory processing differences, giftedness. There's all sorts of different ways that we move through the world, or show up in the world, or are just plain old wonderfully unique in the world that's contributing to these nervous system vulnerabilities. And it's been so beautiful to watch this community come together. 

Robyn: What I want to talk about today is what I see as this huge gap in what is traditionally called trauma informed care. And as I was seeing some things pop around social media in the past couple of weeks, I started to get real fired up again. This isn't new. But just real fired up again about how we can say that we are being trauma informed, yet, there's evidence that we are still approaching the idea of being trauma informed as simply another like behavior modification intervention. I've done a whole podcast about that. I talk about that a lot. I'll link that in the show notes. But what I'm seeing, and I'm sure I'm just preaching to the choir right now, but what I am feeling fired up about right now is this truth that we cannot be what people are calling trauma informed, without first, or at least concurrently, shifting our focus to not behavior interventions that are quote unquote, trauma informed, but to simply just truly seeing people. If we aren't focused on how do I see this person's core authenticity, like their core self and who they are, we end up stuck in a paradigm where we're just using trauma informed care as another behavior intervention. Which, let's be clear what we mean when I say that. Behavior interventions are just another way of getting someone else to do what I want them to do. And if we get real honest with ourselves about what that means, it's just another way to objectify and manipulate someone else. Right? These behavior interventions leave us ignoring that these other folks, folks who are struggling behaviorally, no question about that. But when we stay focused on how do we change our behavior, we end up ignoring that this other person is their own unique human with their own unique experience and their own unique way of being in the world. And here's the catch, that is nothing like mine. And we have to find a way to hold on to the reality that everyone else but especially our kids with big baffling behaviors have their own unique experience, their own unique way of being in the world that is nothing like mine. 

Robyn: And yes, we've got to figure out a way to help calm and settle these precious nervous systems, so that they're not getting hurt, so that other people aren't getting hurt, you know, emotionally hurt, physically hurt. Everybody has a sovereign right to safety. Right? But we want to stay focused on that piece, not on changing their behavior. When we get stuck on behavior change, we get stuck in this objectification, manipulation place. I talk with a lot of folks. Parents, educators, therapists, helpers and healers, educators of some sorts, who, honestly, what's happening is they're kind of moving on to their watchdog pathway. And then they ask a question that sounds something like, “how do I get this kid to…?” And y'all that question, I get that question. I get being in relationship with somebody whose behavior is so difficult to be with, that the focus shifts to “how do I just get them to stop that behavior?” Like I really, really get that. And that question, at its core, is dehumanizing.

Robyn: Ian McGilchrist is a brilliant philosopher, author, neuroscientist who studies the left and right hemispheres of the brain. And while we are definitely way past talking about left brained and right brained, and you know, oversimplifying the brain as, you know, having just these two separate hemispheres and some people are right brained and some people are left brain, which is not accurate. There is- there is though, like this really clear difference. If you read Ian McGilchrist’s work in what he calls a left mode way of processing versus a right mode way of processing. And- and a left mode way of processing has an agenda. It categorizes things as being good or bad, and right and wrong. And a left mode way of processing is objectifying. And culturally, we are stuck in a left mode way of processing, which really limits our ability to truly see one another to truly be with. Now Ian McGilchrist is very clear that we're not going to preference a left mode way of processing over a right mode way of processing, or vice versa. What we really want is a whole brained way of processing. But culturally, due to the way that Western culture is set up, we have shifted into and are quite stuck in this left mode way of processing, which limits our ability to really see one another. 

Robyn: So as we're parenting, and as we're, you know, whatever our role is where- I know not everybody listening is a parent. But we're all here because we want to see and be with people, in a new and different way. We are coming up against our cultural programming of being stuck in this, kind of, left mode way of processing, where we have an agenda where we see people and their behaviors as, again, good or bad, and therefore something to fix. And we also and again, this is no judgment against parents. We are a product of our culture, of our upbringing. It makes perfect sense that this has happened. But we are getting stuck in this place of seeing our kids behavior as the path, kind of, towards the ‘I'm a good parent’ badge. Right? Because what we have learned culturally, then in our own childhood experiences, is that quote, unquote, good parents are in control of their kids. So not only is there some value in being a quote, unquote, good parent, but then we've identified that what a good parent is is somebody who's in control of their kids. What we're learning- what we've learned in our bones, and in our bodies is that there is a virtue, there is value in being in control of another human. And whoa. Like when I first thought of it that way, I don't know y'all, that just really hit me. That our culture teaches us that there is a virtue, and our ability to be in control of another human. And this is a very dangerous, slippery slope.

Robyn: So we have these ideas that good parenting means having well behaved kids. Good parenting means having kids I'm not embarrassed by. Good parenting is having kids who think a certain way like me, or look a certain way, like me and my culturally constructed ideas about how people are supposed to look. And we know that these are the cultural messages that we have about good parenting, simply by asking ourselves, “how does it feel to be in public? And have our kids behave in a way that is culturally considered, quote unquote, bad? How do we feel when the school calls us? How do we feel when other folks are witnessing our kids behave in a way that we know there's been this implicit agreement that that's quote unquote, bad behavior?” We feel embarrassed, right? We feel embarrassed about someone else's behavior. What that means is, somewhere along the way, we've learned that someone else's behavior is a reflection on our own goodness. And then underneath that, then, of course, is this implication that I have the potential to be in control of someone else's behavior. And if I was good, I would be able to accomplish that. 

Robyn: Now, y'all just to be clear, I fall into this trap, too. Without question, I have to work so hard to hang on to my own owl brain and remind myself that my kid is his own human and he is a precious, amazing human, who sometimes has difficult behavior, just like me, just like his dad, just like every human I know. And that doesn't change his goodness, and that definitely doesn't change my goodness. And I have to work hard to hold on to those truths too. I mean I've sat in the principal's office at school too, right? Like, I've had, you know, tantrums in public where people are looking at you like oh my word what is happening over there? I mean, I get it, I can fall into this trap, though. I fall into the trap less as he's getting older. And I don't know if that's because I have so much more experience now parenting, like, I just have more hours under my belt and more hours of practicing. Right? Like his- his behavior is not a reflection of my goodness as a human. Because my goodness as a human isn't measured in how much control do I have over someone else's behavior. And I simply have a lot of hours under my belt now practicing that truth. Right? Also, as he gets older, he is not in my immediate care as much anymore. And that probably contributes to that as well. And also, as he gets older, his o- own owl brain is really growing big and strong. And so we're just running into these situations a little bit less.

Robyn: I think it makes so much sense that there's a lot of us listening, who are approaching parenting with these held ideas, they're really stored in our implicit memory. And I talk about implicit memory other places on our podcast as well. It's a mental model we hold that if I'm a good parent, I'm in control of my child's behavior and can get them to act in a way that's considered culturally appropriate. It makes so much sense that we parent this way, because that's how we were mostly parented. And because we are constantly bombarded by like thousands of messages every single day about kids with bad behavior who must have bad parents. And sometimes we talk with other adults who are either, like, overtly telling us it's our fault, or there's just this kind of subtle covert implication that it's our fault. Right? Now without question, certainly, there's a way of parenting with maybe too much permissiveness, or too much rigidity, or intrusion, or with too little relational presence or connection, that certainly, of course, impacts kids’ behavior. As parents, we have tremendous influence over our kids behavior, but that does not translate to control. Right? 

Robyn: And when we approach how to help our kids’ behaviors through the lens of parenting, which is what we do here on this podcast, this podcast is for parents, not for kids. What we are looking at is, what are ways that we can help our kids be their real true core self, which is precious and wonderful, by offering them more experiences of regulation, and connection, and felt safety. Right? Because humans who are feeling regulated, connected, and safe tend to have behaviors that aren't prompting their parents to listen to parenting podcasts. Right? And there's all sorts of reasons why other humans can struggle with regulation, and connection, and felt safety. And ultimately, we aren't in control of that for them, but there is a lot we can do that influences and offers, right? Our relational experiences with our kids, without question, impacts their regulation, connection, and felt safety. I mean, it impacts it so much that I've totally stopped working directly with kids and I work exclusively with parents because I believe in the power of that parent child relationship. But it's not because I want parents to have better control over their kids. That is not my goal. I think parents can be with themselves in a way that is a gift not only to their children, but also of course, to themselves. And I'm finding that so powerful and so rewarding to shift my work to parents that way. But it's not because parents are in control or because it's their fault when their kids are struggling behaviorally. 

Robyn: This is though, of course, the message that we get in mainstream media, or with the like Judgy McJudgertons at the grocery store, or in your school meetings. I mean, everywhere we turn we see the perpetuation of the idea that good parents have kids who never cause anyone else any discomfort. Good parents have kids who are so disconnected from themselves, that they never show us their true feelings and their true selves. Ultimately, y’all, what we need is to heal in ourselves the need to be seen by others as good or not good. We have no right to attempt to control anyone else. It's objectifying and dehumanizing. Seeing our kids is how they will heal, because not being seen in their humanity is how they were hurt.

Robyn: Trauma informed with any other objective other than to truly see the child for who they really are, is not trauma informed. It's just another way we try to package up behaviorism in a way that maybe feels a little bit more palatable. We talk so much here on this show about having influence, but not control. People who believe they have control over their kids have the privilege of not parenting a child with a vulnerable nervous system. Nothing challenges our objectifying beliefs about parenting the way parenting a child with a vulnerable nervous system does. Parents are under the illusion of control when they have a deep connection with a mostly regulated child. Or when they have an overly compliant child who is actually mostly living in fear or on the possum pathway. 

Robyn: Now, I want to tell you that I grieve the lack of control I have over other people, like every day. I grieve this. I rage against this every single day. I mean, when I am truly honest with myself, I notice that I wish everybody just did exactly what I wanted them to do. Life would be so much easier. I mean, you know, it wouldn't be relationally rich in any way, shape, or form. But if everybody just did everything I wanted them to do, I would have zero discomfort. Every single day, I have to reconnect with myself over how uncomfortable it is when other people don't do what I want them to do. When other people behave in a way that leaves me uncomfortable. And then I have to deal with that discomfort. I want everyone to just do what I want and then I would never feel uncomfortable. And y'all frankly, I have a low tolerance for feeling uncomfortable, though I'm growing it, very slowly.

Robyn: And also, the truth is the discomfort would then come from the discomfort of living in an absolute relational desert. Now, if I'm honest with you, sometimes the idea of living in a relational desert doesn't even seem that uncomfortable. If it were possible for me to control everyone else, I might actually make the sacrifice of living in a relational desert. Because it would be less uncomfortable to me than the discomfort of being in relationship with people who don't do what I want them to do. And regretfully or not, it's simply not possible. I don't get to make that choice. I don't get to make the choice to live in a relational desert by making other people do what I want them to do, because it's just simply not possible. Right? My work, and my marriage, and not to mention just regular life on this planet, makes me keenly aware that it is simply not possible. 

Robyn: If I were in control of other people's behaviors, I'd be reduced to this, like, puppeteer. Like the woman behind the curtain. And then now we're back to the inevitable objectification and dehumanization of trying to control someone else. Wanting to control someone else asking the question, how do I get this child to do whatever, XYZ comes from the watchdog pathway. This is a nervous system that's shifted into protection mode. It's not feeling safe. A nervous system that feels safe is okay with uncertainty of not being in charge. And so listen, y'all, I get the some of you listening, maybe a lot of you listening, have kids whose behaviors are dangerous, legitimately dangerous, and they've got to change because people aren't safe. They're not safe, other people aren't safe physically, emotionally, mentally, relationally. It's not safe. And I'm not saying that by dropping the desire to control that we then drop the desire to work with people to help them. Right? I'm saying that we're going to shift from ‘how do I change your behavior’ to ‘how do I stay focused on seeing their core humanity’? I’m offering them experiences of felt safety, of offering them the exact opposite of what has contributed to their nervous system vulnerability in the first place. 

Robyn: We need to fiercely question, why are we working to change something else, though? Is it safety? Or is it a social construct of what's appropriate or good? Or do we want to change somebody else's behavior, because we're uncomfortable when they're behaving that way? And I'm saying uncomfortable, not unsafe. Right? And the reason we're uncomfortable again, it kind of brings us back to these ways we've been led to believe, which are false, that good parents are in control of somebody else's behavior. That somebody else's behavior is a reflection on my goodness as a person. And we were led to believe those things, because those beliefs create a society of humans who try to control other people, and that's very convenient for some folks. Right? But they're not true. We are not in control of somebody else's behavior. And we aren't bad because we aren't in control of someone else's behavior.

Robyn: This brings us to reminding ourselves that the most important tool in our parenting toolbox, trauma informed toolbox, parenting kids vulnerable nervous systems toolbox, whatever you want to call it. Your most important tool is your x-ray vision goggles. Being able to see below the behavior. Making sense of the baffling behavior. That's why we spend so much time making sense of the baffling behavior, bringing what's called coherence to it. 

Robyn: A few years ago, I talked about how we needed to move away from being trauma informed to simply being, what I called at the time, being, quote, unquote, human informed. And for me, what that meant was believing in everyone's unique preciousness and not trying to manipulate anyone into being what we want. And being human informed, when I use that language, meant truly believing that regulated, connected kids who feel safe do well. And that also means fiercely deconstructing what we mean when we say do or behave well. Being human informed is implicitly trauma informed because we see each other as unique individuals who have adapted in the most brilliant ways possible. And then those of us who are less vulnerable, those of us who have the privilege of felt safety, who hold social power, who have more resilient nervous systems, it is us then who make the changes. And we stop asking the most vulnerable to be the one who make the change. 

Robyn: So I don't use the language human informed anymore. I used it very briefly and got some really important feedback from folks that it felt really minimizing in not seeing folks with a history of trauma, and so I immediately just stopped using that language. I'm not sure exactly how to talk about the importance of going beyond trauma informed without running the risk of- of minimizing the importance of being trauma informed. It's crucial to be trauma informed, because it's crucial to turn our attention to and to keep our attention on the most vulnerable folks in our communities. But without completely dismantling our beliefs and understanding about what it means to be human, trauma informed isn't trauma informed at all. It's just another way of objectifying people to get them to do what we want. There's got to be a way to stay in the both and here. To be fiercely trauma informed and to go beyond trauma informed, to just see people, to know that connection is a biological imperative, and- and that regulated connected kids who feel safe do well. So that when kids are struggling, when people are struggling, we can pause and ask, well, what's up with that? Right? We can stay curious. We can strive to see the behavior as a cue, or a clue, as a trailhead, not the final destination.

Robyn: It's hard to see our kids clearly and use our x-ray vision goggles when we're on the watchdog or the possum pathway ourselves. It's not hard at all when our owl brains are in charge. Now, if you're new to the podcast, and you have no idea what I'm talking about, watchdogs, owls, possums, I want you to head to my totally free webinar called Focus on the Nervous System to Change Behavior. I introduced the owl, watchdog, and possum metaphor there. It's at RobynGobbel.com/webinar. So you can watch the webinar or download the ebook which is basically just like a transcript or a summary of the webinar, but it's laid out really beautifully. So it's not like reading a transcript. Anyway, owls, watchdogs, possums. If that's new to you go to RobynGobbel.com/webinar. 

Robyn: But seeing our kids clearly and using our x-ray vision goggles isn't hard when we're in our own brain. So I work with parents on growing their owl brain, right? The owl brain is compassionate, and curious, and flexible, and gracious, and boundaried. Right? The owl brain doesn't say, “oh, they can’t help it will just ignore these behaviors that are hurting people”. Absolutely not the owl brain is so good at compassionate boundaries. And this is why the bulk of my work has shifted to helping the grown ups. Parents, professionals, educators, helpers, healers. Helping the grown ups have stronger owl brains while also, yes, of course, teaching some helpful tools and techniques that I've learned along the way for how to offer regulation, connection, and felt safety to the folks who have the hardest time receiving it. 

Robyn: Changing how we see people changes people. Changing how we see people as unique, individual people who have behaviors that make absolute perfect sense instead of as people who need to be controlled, that changes people. We cannot heal nervous systems by perpetuating the experience that caused the harm in the first place, which was objectifying, dehumanizing experiences in which the child was unseen and unsafe. Seeing them is the path towards healing, we can't take the path without it. Changing how we see people, changes people. And you know, who it changes the most? Us! It changes us the most but yeah, changes kids to

Robyn: Alright, y'all, there are some really big, exciting changes coming up here in the next couple of weeks on the podcast. And as we get ready to bring this book into the world and have it become something that's actually useful to you instead of something I'm just talking about, right? Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors. Again, that's coming out September 21st, and is available for pre order, RobynGobbel.com/book. We've got, oh my gosh, I've got like the 2024 cohort of Being With starting to be something I'm thinking about, and applications, and registration for that is going to start opening soon. Which is mind blowing to me, I can't believe we're already at that place, again. Being With is my program for professionals. For professionals who want to bring this work to their clients, and families, and communities, and organizations. So, yes, so many big, big, big changes on the horizon, including on the podcast. As we get ready to bring this new book into the world this- this new way that y’all will have access to support and help. And hopefully this book is going to help bring this nervous system approach of seeing kids, and not just kids, y'all, seeing everyone including ourselves. Hopefully this book will really kind of lead the way in bringing more and more people on to our team, right? Our team of changing the world for humans, for kids with these vulnerable nervous systems and big baffling behaviors.

Robyn: I will see you back here on the podcast next week. And we're going to have a really fun couple of weeks together a couple months, y'all, couple months together as we make room for some really fun, exciting changes. So come back and in the meantime, if you found this episode impactful, or you're enjoying this podcast, I would be so, so grateful if you would head to your podcast player to rate and review. Because this is a free resource, I do not ever pay for marketing or advertising. I never pay for marketing or advertising period. I never have. And, therefore, what is the most helpful marketing and advertising which means getting more people to see our kids this way, which is nothing but wonderful for these kids and, y’all, their families. One of the best ways to do that is to rate and review the podcast, because it will then be suggested to more people who are listening to similar kinds of things on podcasts. And so it's just the best way to get this out there, get this out there as far and wide as possible. You're can do it right in your podcast app. 

Robyn: Alright, y'all, thank you so much for showing up, for being with me again today, for being with yourselves, for being with your kids, for being with each other. Because even though y'all are located in these far corners of the world, all over the globe individually listening to these podcasts, it is a thread that ties us all together. And that really, really matters. So thank you. I'll see you next week.