EVERYONE Has A Watchdog And Possum Brain! {EP 178}

Robyn: So remember, my area of expertise is predominantly kids with histories of complex and relational and attachment developmental trauma. But there are so many reasons that kids have these vulnerable nervous systems and big baffling behaviors. I have a podcast actually all about that about you know, what does it mean to have a vulnerable nervous system? That's episode 122. So you can scroll back to Episode 122. It looks like I actually also replayed that very episode back in February. So if you look for the dates, and you scroll back to February 16, 2024, you'll find it there. Otherwise, it might be easier to just scroll back to Episode 122, 'What Does It Mean To Have A Vulnerable Nervous System?' And a lot of folks will come to me and say, my kid doesn't have a history of trauma. Why do they have a vulnerable nervous system? And so that episode is in an attempt to kind of explore that question. We are having a tiny bit of construction happening on our house today. And I don't think it's going to come through on the podcast but just in case you do happen to hear something weird. It's probably that when we moved in to our house five years ago, we hoped to install a window in this big blank wall that is in a room of our house that we actually spend probably most of our time in and it is time to finally install that window! I'm so excited, y'all, it is going to change like the experience of being in that room so much to have so much natural light coming in. So finally finally finally, I think we literally bought the window a year and a half ago or more. Finally, it's getting put in today. We're so excited for it to go in at the beginning of spring so we can experience all of the good, morning sunlight here as we, as our days get longer here in Michigan. Do y'all know this, like, June 20th, the longest day of the year, I mean our sunrise is at like 5:00 or 5:30 and sunset is at like 9:30 or 10:00. It's so fantastic. So, construction noise is a window finally being put in that we're very, very, very excited about.    

Robyn: All right, everyone has a Watchdog and a Possum pathway. Now, this idea might be review, for a lot of you, especially if you've been listening for a long time. Or if you've read Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, or if you're in The Club, because we actually talked about this kind of recently in the club, which is what inspired the idea for this episode. But I also know that for families of kids who have a lot of dysregulation in your kids nervous systems or maybe in your own, that because we spend so much time talking about the intensity of dysregulation on the Watchdog or Possum pathway. You kind of start to lose sight of the truth that we all have Watchdog and Possum pathways, it starts to feel like Watchdogs and Possums only exists in this very vulnerable, very sensitized, very dysregulated kind of way. And then it can start to feel like well, what we want to do is get rid of the Watchdog brain or the Possum brain and actually, that's not true. And I'm gonna explain more about why this matters. Like why does it matter that we remember everyone has a Watchdog and a Possum pathway. I'm gonna explain more about that towards the end of the episode. So if you're really wondering about that, make sure you listen all the way to the end.    

Robyn: Every human has a Watchdog or a Possum pathway. Remember though, you know, obviously Owls, Watchdogs, and Possums are metaphors based on real physiology. And so you know, the Watchdog pathway or the Watchdog brain, is it's a metaphor for the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system, right, like the part of our nervous system that powers us and gives us energy and activation. That's the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system. We all have one of those, all of us, right? Thank goodness, because actually, if we wanted to get really nitty gritty, real sciency, the sympathetic nervous system is engaging with like every heartbeat, and every breath that we take, we don't really think of it that way, especially here on the Baffling Behavior show. But that is a physiological reality. We all have a sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system, and it's constantly working. And the Possum pathway is a metaphor for the dorsal vagal complex, which is a branch of the parasympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system. Okay, we all have a parasympathetic nervous system, the resting part of our nervous system that breaks the decrease in energy. We all have a parasympathetic branch, and we all have that dorsal vagal complex, we all have these parts of our nervous system, of our autonomic nervous system, they are constantly working and they they do a lot more than just power, the kind of energy and activation that we think about. Like when we think about Owls, Possums and Watchdogs, we're thinking about the very challenging behaviors that our kids have. While the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system and the parasympathetic branch, they're doing a lot more than, you know, being underneath these challenging behaviors. And we all have these pathways and we don't want to get rid of them. And we can't get rid of them. We don't want to get rid of them. And we want to make sure that that important nuance of not wanting to get rid of them actually kind of comes through the metaphor as well.    

Robyn: Okay, Watchdog brains, Possum brains, having a Watchdog brain or a Possum brain isn't what's causing stress for your child and it's not what's causing stress in your family. I know it seems like it is but really it's not. What is causing stress is an overactive Watchdog or Possum brain or pathway, that very sensitized stress response system. So we have Watchdog and Possum pathways that are working really, really, really hard. And on the outside looking in, like if we just attempted to look objectively at stressors, it would look like they're overreactions. Now, if you've read my book, if you've listened to some earlier episodes on the podcast, you know that all behavior makes sense. And I don't really believe in overreactions. If we look at how we're all kind of co-creating our own reality, and every moment, we are having an autonomic nervous system response that matches our moment-by-moment experience in reality- if we look at the very complicated way, we're all kind of constructing or creating our own reality. I touch on that a bit in the episode, 'Connection or Protection???,' which I think is episode seven. I reference that one a lot, Episode Seven, and explore that a lot throughout the book, Raising Kids With Big Baffling Behaviors, but especially in chapter two, the chapter on the science of safety.    

Robyn: So we all have Watchdog and Possum pathways, and the Watchdog and the Possum respond to stress. When your child is having a Watchdog range response, or Possum range response, they are responding to some kind of stressor. It is never true that, quote-unquote, nothing happened. Never true. Always something happened that was a stressor, oftentimes, almost all the times we have to really like expand on, what do we mean when we use the word, stress or stressor? Because oftentimes, the way we're talking about stress doesn't actually match kind of the scientific definition of stress, you can go back to the episode on a sensitized stress response system, the episodes really just on the stress response system. And that's episode 94. To really help kind of understand how the stress response system, not only is it not bad, but it's actually super important. We want to have a strong, resilient, robust stress response system, because humans are constantly responding to stressors. And the more resilient our stress response system is, the more likely it is that we're going to have a stress response that seems to kind of match the stressor. When I'm working with families, they don't come to me because their kids are having stress responses that match the stressors of everyday life, like those families, certainly don't have perfect kids. I mean, we all have difficult behavior when we're stressed beyond our capacity. I do, my partner does, my own kid does. Like we all have that. Those are the kinds of families who come to me, the families who comes to me have kids who are having stress responses, that like, far exceed what we would think would be typical given the stressor. And they're, you know, their stress response is more intense, it's more frequent, it lasts longer, right? That's having an overactive or a sensitized stress response system, there is always a stressor. It's just that for the families who come to me, the stress response doesn't seem like it matches the stressor. You want your child to have a robust stress response system, and you want your child to have the ability to respond to danger, if danger is happening. You want your child to be able to yell or to holler or to run away, or stick up for themselves or stick up for up for a peer that's having unjust treatment.    

Robyn: And it doesn't even have to be physical aggression or a physically aggressive response, right? Like, we want our kids to use their voices to stick up for themselves to feel empowered, you know, to set a boundary when somebody's crossing their boundaries or crossing the boundary or, you know, kind of not behaving in a way that's in alignment with their values of them, or maybe of a friend or a peer or someone else. We want them to have a stress response. We want them to have a Watchdog or a Possum response, a protective response, right? Stress responses are normal and healthy. And the goal is never, to never go into protection mode, or to never have a stress response. Going into protection mode is important, healthy, normal. It's how we kind of individuate and develop our sense of self. It's how we mobilize and respond to injustices or things that are happening that we know shouldn't be happening or they violate kind of human rights. That's when we go into protection mode. We also go into protection mode and have a stress response when we don't get what we want. If I want something, what's happening is like my body, my nervous system is making like this energetic reach. Like, I want to watch a show on TV, right? There's like this energetic movement towards like this thing that I want. But then maybe I can't watch it because my kid has friends over and they're already watching something else. And we only have one TV, right? And so I had these plans to watch something on TV. But now I can't. And I'm going to have a stress response to that, because not getting what you want, is stressful. Now, I'm a grown-up with a relatively robust stress response system. And so I have the capacity to like, regulate through that stress response, I might have so much capacity that I don't even I'm just like, Ah, okay, whatever, I'll figure something else out. It could be as simple as that. I could have a stress response, it's a little bigger, that's like, Ah, shoot, I really wanted to watch that on the TV as opposed to like pulling out my tablet and watching it on that, right?   

Robyn: So having a stress response to a stressor is normal is going to happen. We're not trying to take away a stress response. And we have to hope- we have to pay attention and notice, make sure that we're not doing that, right. Like, I'm not asking for my kid to never have a negative response to being asked to do a chore or do his homework or, or do something he doesn't want to do. Right? He's gonna be grumpy, he's gonna protest, he's gonna say, ughh, why do I have to? You know, that's fine. That's fine. He's allowed to have his authentic feeling. We are not trying to get rid of kid Watchdog or Possum pathways. It's okay for our kids, for people to have a 'What's up,' and maybe even a slight 'ready for action' Watchdog brain response to stressors like chores and homework or doing anything hard, doing something they don't want to do- having a transition, right? The level of our stress response varies based on so much based on our window of tolerance. Like, it's the end of the school year. And, you know, windows of tolerances are depleted, we have less capacity to navigate stress, and it's like the school year is almost done. Right? And so the normal stressors of school are feeling really big right now. Right? That's normal as like our stress response system shifts and our window of tolerance ebbs and flows. But my point is, it's okay to be grumpy, it's okay to grumble. It's okay to complain. Okay, we are not trying to have kids or partners or selves, who never complain or never object. Right? We're not trying to create kids who just like always jumps to do things joyfully. Right? That's not being human. Right? And if we did have kids who always were overriding our stress response- their stress response to act like, they had no stress and everything was fine. Everything's fine. Yes, I'll do that. Yes, I'll do that. Yeah, that's a different kind of stress response. Right? It's a stress response where we kind of override our authentic stress response to to present as or to be, you know- to behave in a way that like decreases someone else's stress response. That's what's happening when people are overly compliant. It's still a stress response.    

Robyn: Having a stress response that surges and then declines is normal. It's good, it's healthy. Right? But again, those of you listening have kids with sensitized stress response systems and, and really vulnerable nervous systems, their Watchdog and Possum are overworked and tired. And just like when people are overworked and tired, they make a lot of mistakes, and they're grouchy and they struggled to be in relationship, the Watchdog and Possum, when they're overworked and tired, they make a lot of mistakes. They react to things as if they're huge stressors when they really not. Right? They're extra grouchy, they struggle to be in relationships. This is about being overworked and tired just like people. We aren't getting rid of the watchdog and possum we want to support them in taking a rest we want the Watchdog to play! And we want the Possum to snuggle. We want our kids to develop the capacity to have sympathetic activation in safety and connection. The Watchdog can play. And we want our kids to have that dorsal vagal shutdown not only as a protective response, but also as a response that happens in connection and in rest, like snuggling. Right? We're not trying to get rid of them. We're trying to help them rest more. Why is this important? It's important because we need to approach our kid's Watchdog and Possum pathways, and our own, with a nervous system of gratitude, acceptance and compassion. So, if we break the metaphor again, right, overactive Watchdogs; intense sympathetic activation that doesn't match the stressor. Overactive Possums; intense dorsal vagal activation that doesn't match the stressor. Overactive Watchdogs and Possums emerge from a dysregulated an integrated nervous system, a nervous system that moves towards either chaotic behavior or rigid behavior. Integrated nervous systems are flexible and adaptive, coherent, energized stable, that's straight from Dr. Siegel's work. Dr. Dan Siegel's work, his acronym FACES; flexible adaptive, coherent, energized and stable, describes an integrative nervous system. And as nervous systems move towards dysregulation and become disintegrated. They moved towards either rigidity or chaos. And if you looked at your kid's Watchdog or Possum brain behavior, could you label it as rigid or chaotic? Yes, for sure.    

Robyn: The pathway to integration the way we move to integration from rigidity or chaos is bringing Owl brain energy or ventral vagal energy to an overactive Watchdog or to an overactive Possum. So first, what happens is that our kids, their overactive Watchdog and their overactive Possum, our kids get connection from our Owl, right? That's what co-regulation is we're offering our Owl brain to an overactive Watchdog or overactive Possum pathway. When I was a therapist, that was my primary job I offered my own Owl, my ventral vagal state to my clients whether they were kids or adults. Eventually, and the timeline for this varies but eventually, clients that I worked with, they could connect with their own Watchdog and Possum parts using their own Owl brain. They developed the ability to kind of be with themselves, they started to have compassion and acceptance and gratitude towards themselves and the neurobiological states with which compassion, acceptance, and gratitude emerges from is that ventral vagal state, that is the neurobiological state that's required for change. That's why you'll hear me say compassion is the neurobiology of change. It's also true for acceptance and gratitude. Bringing the neurobiology of compassion acceptance and gratitude to overactive Watchdog and Possum parts is exactly how those parts begin to integrate and shift.    

Robyn: I know it can feel like oh my gosh bringing compassion to Watchdog and Possum brains is just going to increase them. Right? But actually the opposite is true. Bringing compassion acceptance and gratitude doesn't grow the watchdog or possum brain there isn't a sense of like, well, fine, I'll just act this way then because I got compassion. That's not it at all. When an overactive Watchdog or Possum brain receives compassion, acceptance and gratitude that grows, the Owl brain increases the opportunity for integration. It is the neurobiology of compassion and gratitude that strengthens the stress response system. So that we move towards having a stress response that seems more in line with the stressor. Now, of course, we don't have Owls and Watchdogs and Possums living in our mind, we don't have animals in our mind. And since this is all a metaphor, it might feel kind of weird to have a relationship with these parts of ourselves, with this metaphor, where this way we're like anthropomorphizing these parts of ourselves. And I know that that can feel kind of weird. But that has been my biggest blessing of having the bulk of my career being working with kids, because it's not weird to them. They're so much more willing to connect a metaphor. And they can show me the path so clearly. And so I kind of see the path as like, it's offered to me by the kids, it's shown to me by the kids. And that reminds me that we can all go down that path, adults can walk the path of compassion and gratitude to grow their our Owl brains as well. Right? It is actually the very recognition that Watchdogs and Possums are simply a part of being human. Now that was sort of ironic to say, right?    

Robyn: But this metaphor, the parts of our nervous system that we call Watchdog and Possum, which are very real physiological parts of our nervous system, that they are simply being human. It is who we are. And even having overactive Watchdog and Possum pathways is kind of who we are as humans, too. I mean, we are vulnerable to developing sensitized stress response systems. And not only are we vulnerable to developing them, but we have great capacity to strengthen them because of being human right. It's this kind of dichotomy of being human, you know, allows us to do both. Not aiming to get rid of the Watchdog or Possum pathway is a crucial part of this journey. It is so important that we kind of pull in that attitude of compassion and acceptance and gratitude. That energy is crucial because it is the nervous system state of integration and dysregulation regulates and integrates when it's met by regulation and integration. First, when others meet us, right? If I'm dysregulated and somebody is willing to come to me with their co-regulation, that's kind of the first step towards integration. And then eventually, I'm able to be with myself in that way. And it's true for kids too. This isn't just things that grownups can do, kids can do this too. So everyone has a watchdog and possum pathway. And recognizing that, and remembering that, and reminding ourselves that we're not trying to get rid of the Watchdog and Possum pathway is key. We are trying to strengthen the stress response system and given over active Watchdog and an overactive Possum a rest. We are trying to help them see that they don't have to work so hard that there are other things in place to help keep each other safe and that the Watchdog and the Possum pathway doesn't have to be the only part of our kids stress response that is working and it's not the only part of them that can keep them safe, that they can rest and trust that the Owl brain will call on the Watchdog or the Possum when needed, the Watchdog and Possum will take over when needed. It doesn't have to be overworked. That's when more mistakes.    

Robyn: So my suggestion for you is as this episode comes to an end, just pause and notice. How did this episode land with you? How did it impact you? What did that feel like? Just notice what it's like to notice everyone including yourself, as an overactive Watchdog and Possum pathway, and just notice what it's like to imagine that you're not trying to get rid of your kid's Watchdog pathway or Possum pathway. Just notice and have no judgement about the response that you have. So if you have like a big response, like oh my gosh, I just want to get rid of it. I don't want any Watchdogs, no Possums. None! If that's your response, just notice it. We're practicing the noticing, that's the Owl brain. We are just practicing the noticing, then we can bring compassion and gratitude and acceptance towards ourselves. And then over time we can really work to strengthen the way that we offer compassion gratitude and acceptance to our kid's Watchdog and Possum pathway too.    

Robyn: If it feels like you could use a little more support in doing all of this, remember, I have so many resources available right. So of course, I have the book that's available in paperback and audio and ebook. I have an enormous amount of free resources that are available for download over on my website. So you can have a robyngobbel.com/freeresources. I have coloring pages that you can download as well from the store on my website. Coloring Pages do have a small fee associated with it. I think it's $4 for a downloadable PDF of 15 pages. The podcast of course, keep listening to the Baffling Behavior Show and, and go back and listen to old episodes, especially if you're new here. And if you could use even more support, consider coming to join us over in The Club the next time the club opens up. We open up for new members every two or three months. So go check out the website, and if we're open now that'll be really clear and if we're not open now you can put yourself in the waiting list and get an email when we are open. Alright, y'all, the construction went away. The construction noises went away while I was podcasting, so maybe they're done for the day, and they went home, I don't know! I'm glad that they took a little break, that helps keep my Watchdog brain from overreacting while while I was podcasting, while I was recording this episode for you. I am going to shut down work for the day and go enjoy the sunshine as spring really comes into bloom here in Michigan. That's a very good way to nourish my own Owl brain. I will be with y'all again next week. Bye bye!