Focus on the Nervous System to Change Behavior {EP 84}

Robyn: So my approach to behavior change rests on the idea that regulated connected kids who feel safe behave well. If you're curious about how I came to that conclusion that regulated, connected kids who feel safe behave well, what I would invite you to do is go check out my free masterclass and download the free ebook that accompanies it, What Behavior Really Is, and you can get that at RobynGobbel.com/masterclass. You got two options there, you can watch the whole video series, or you can download the ebook, or of course, you can do both. Whatever works for you in your learning style. So I'm not going to go into why regulated connected kids who feel safe behave well. But we'll send you there and you can get my overview on that idea in that masterclass, and then you can come back to the podcast in search for more podcast episodes that dive deeper into the concepts of regulation, and connection, and felt safety. 

Robyn: Here's what I want to ask you today. How many times have you felt confused because of conflicting parenting advice? Maybe there's a couple people that you kind of turned to in the parenting world, and they're giving conflicting advice. Or maybe even the same person at times feels like gives conflicting parenting advice, right? Or you've gotten some good parenting advice, and you're using it, and it's working, but only some of the time, right? It just doesn't work always or even half the time. And the reason for that is- and the reason why some parenting advice can both be good advice that's accurate and conflicting, is because most parenting advice is- is aimed at solving a behavior. But the behavior is just the symptom. So when someone comes to me, and says, ‘how do I stop lying, or stealing, or opposition, or aggression, or ignoring, or basically almost any behavior?’ I really can't even begin to answer that question until I have some understanding of the level of activation or energy that's coming from the nervous system and that moment that is driving that behavior. This is also why it's really hard to, for me, as somebody who puts out a lot of content in the parenting world, it's hard for me to stay super focused on the behavior and put out podcasts or social media posts that are real focused on, you know, some problem behavior with some solution on how to fix that problem behavior. Because it really isn't that simple. And what I have found is, the majority of the families who are following me, have already experienced some of that [pause] just more simple black and white parenting advice. And it's not working for them they need- they need more nuanced information, y’all, those of you listening now, need more nuanced information. And not a simple if you want to, you know change X you have to do Y, which is unfortunately a lot more complicated. And also just what the reality is. So we're going to, again, use the behavior that we can see. The behavior is what's observable. As a cue, or a clue to get super curious about what's the activation, the nervous system activation or energy that is driving this behavior. So there's a lot of complex neuroscience that we can turn to to help us explore this, and understand this, and then change it if needed. So we can look to things like polyvagal theory, affect regulation theory, state dependent functioning, theory. So many amazing theories have emerged from the field of relational neuroscience. It's helping us understand what behavior really is. And if you want a deep dive into that science, the theories, the brain, the nervous system, consider joining Being With. That's my year long immersion program for professionals. And in addition to just the tools and learning how to use the tools, Being With is- is really focused on in depth exploration of the neuroscience that's underneath all of it. But for today, for this podcast, we're going to skip the theories and just go right to the metaphor that I use. A metaphor that I've developed over, gosh, more than a decade, working with more than hundreds- hundreds and hundreds of kids and their parents who have helped me develop this metaphor. It's a metaphor of owls and watchdogs and possums, oh my!

Robyn: So there's three different energy pathways in the brain. So I call them the owl brain, the watchdog brain, and the possum brain. Let's start with the owl brain. The wise owl brain is a part of the brain of the nervous system that's in charge. When the brain and the nervous system is feeling both safe, and open, and available for connection. The owl brain is responsible for behaviors like your child being able to be logical, be cooperative, have curiosity and empathy, be self reflective. That owl brain kind of has that pause before response. I mean, kind of the bottom line is- is that the behavior that you'd really like to see from your child's, and probably from yourself as well, comes from the owl brain. Okay, so when thinking about how to change behavior, I'm not really thinking about stopping behavior, I'm thinking about either strengthening or bringing back the owl brain. Now remember, I said that our brain is what's in charge when the brain and the nervous system is both feeling safe, and open, and available for connection. So if I've got a behavior that I'm not really liking so much, that's a good clue that probably in that moment the owl brain’s not in charge. And if our brain is not in charge, that means the nervous system isn't feeling safe and isn't feeling open and available for connection. So bringing back the owl brain means bringing back safety, and bringing back the opportunity for connection to be experienced as safe. Now I- I know, I know, I know, easier said than done. But right now we're just looking at the big picture, like of the big kind of philosophical theory here. When the owl brain is in charge, the nervous system is feeling safe and open for connection. And generally speaking, I let's just say 99% of the time the behavior that you're hoping for, comes from the owl brains. We want to focus on inviting our brain back, bringing back felt safety, offering connection in a way that that child is- would experience safety. Because not all connection feels safe to all people. So that our brain can come back and be in charge. Now I have a lot of podcast episodes about safety, about connection being a biological imperative. Again, you can head to RobynGobbel.com/podcasts. You can search for some of those podcast episodes that explore that concept further in depth. 

Robyn: Now I told you that there's three different pathways: owls, watchdogs, and possums. So let's look at watchdogs next. The watchdog brain emerges when the nervous system is detecting danger- or even just possible danger, right? So the our brains all about safety and connection. The watchdog brain is going oh wait, I think there's some danger here. I think I need to do something to protect myself. So the nervous system flips into what I call protection mode and the watchdog brain emerges. Once we are on this kind of watchdog pathway, I turned to Dr. Perry's- Dr. Bruce Perry's work, specifically with his state dependent functioning. That really helps me conceptualize the different levels of watchdog brain behavior. Definitely if you haven't already, check out Dr. Perry's book, What Happened to You that he co-authored with Oprah Winfrey. It came out, I think in 2020. It is excellent! And Dr. Perry's theory of state dependent functioning, he talks about these different states. Different levels of activation, and then the different behaviors that can emerge from them. So again, we're- right now we're talking about watchdog. So the watchdog pathway gets activated when the nervous system detects some danger. Like I said, even just potential danger. And Dr. Perry has these four different levels of activation that he calls alert, alarm, fear and terror. So the alert watchdog is the alert- alert dog watchdog is like “hey, there's some danger here. I think there's some danger here at least something happened that made me think there might be some danger. And I need to check it out, see if it really is dangerous, and then decide what to do next”. This level of watchdog, this alert watchdog, is still connected to and collaborating with the owl brain. So we're gonna see protection based behaviors, we're gonna see defensive behaviors, so maybe a little bit of opposition, less cooperation and compliance, maybe some sassiness, or some rudeness, right? As this watchdog is trying to figure out, I don't know, am I safe or not? Do I? Is it safe to be in connection? Or do I need to stay with these protection based behaviors. So that's the kind of that first level of watchdog, the alert watchdog, and then there's alarm, fear and terror. 

Robyn: So as the watchdog determines that there's more and more danger, more and more need to be protective. It's going to go through these different levels, from alarm, to fear, to terror. And we're going to go from behaviors that look like opposition to defiance, to verbal aggression, to physical aggression. We have to remember that the watchdog is acting in a scary way. But really, the watchdog is scared. Like real life watchdogs, right? Like real life watchdogs are, their whole job is to like, protect themselves, and their humans. And they get scary when they're scared when they need to protect themselves. And here's the thing, the watchdog gets so scary, that the owl freaks out and flies away. And this is why the more activated your child is in their watchdog pathway, the less helpful it is to try to connect with owl brain or use any sort of owl brain tactics like logic, or helping your child remember like the consequences, or even remembering or understanding why your child- like why for your child like consequences don't matter. It's because that owl brain has totally flown away. 

Robyn: The watchdog gets more and more active goes from alarmed, to fear, to terror as there is more danger. Now I know that a lot of you listening have a watchdog kid who is acting as though there's lots and lots of danger. And this is confusing to you, you're like there's- there's no danger here. I don't- I don't get it. So the way the brain determines how much danger is present is based on a lot of different things. I've covered it in previous episodes. I talked about it in Connection or Protection, and I talked about it in No Behavior is Maladaptive. So again, you can head to RobynGobbel.com/podcast. And you can search for those and find those episodes, because I know it feels like it doesn't make sense. But there's a lot of reasons why our kids aren't going to respond as though there's a level of danger that warrants like, you know, a terror level watchdog brain response. And everybody else is kind of looking around me like what are you talking about, there's not even any problem here. But from your child's perspective, really from their neuroception, their nervous system is truly experiencing that level of danger. And so it's responding in kind. Now, again, our brain has totally flown away. So using our brain interventions, like logic, threatening consequences, using lots of language, to try to get the child to change their behavior is just simply not going to work. What does work is bringing about safety, bringing about regulation, bringing about connection. I know, I know, I know, you're like okay, but how do I do that? Valid, valid question?, it just isn't what we're talking about in today's episode. We're not going into specific intervention today, I really want to stay focused on just the owl, watchdog, and possum brain as a metaphor as a way to really see and conceptualize behavior. 

Robyn: The other pathway is the possum pathway. So I told you when the nervous system detects danger, the watchdog pathway gets activated. When the nervous system detects life threat, meaning it's more than just dangerous. It's like “uh-oh, this is a life threatening situation. Not just a dangerous one where I feel like I could run away or fight or get out of it. But this is an actual a life threatening situation”. Now the nervous system activates what I call the possum pathway. And again, we can turn to Dr. Perry's state dependent functioning theory to see how there are four different levels of possum brain behavior, just like there are four different levels of watchdog brain behavior. Now the big difference is that the watchdog pathway increases energy and activation. But in the possum pathway, energy and activation is significantly decreased. When the possum pathway is activated, more and more shutdown or collapse is happening. It- Dr. Perry's is dependent functioning models uses the same language to look at the different levels that is still used as alert, alarm, fear and terror. I think it's a little bit confusing because alert, alarm, fear, terror gives us this sense- I think that the energy is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. But actually the opposite is happening on this possum pathway. The energy is getting smaller, and smaller, and smaller, and smaller. So it's really going from like kinda like lala land behavior to total dissociation checked out disconnected from reality behavior. There's a lot of different kinds of possum brain behaviors. Again, I said like kind of that lala land, spaced out, not really paying attention, zoned out daydreaming kind of behavior. One possum brain behavior is people pleasing behavior, and I have another podcast episode on people pleasing. Again, you can enter RobynGobbel.com/podcasts, and just put in ‘people pleasing’ to find that one. That's actually on the possum pathway as well until we go all the way down to like shut down, and totally dissociated behavior. So I know a lot of you who have kids, you look really unmotivated, or they won't do anything, they're not getting out of bed. These are kids who's likely in a state of nervous system collapse. So again, it's the opposite of the watchdog. It's this intense collapse that can feel really lazy, or unmotivated. But to be honest with you, I don't really believe in the word lazy. Laziness- behavior that looks lazy, is almost always a behavior that's somewhere on this possum pathway. Or sometimes it's just humans being humans. I mean, the reality is is that one core aspect of being human is expending the least amount of energy possible to get done what we want to get done. And so what we culturally describe as lazy, is actually the human brain just conserving and being pretty smart about it, and working towards survival. But anyway, that also is like a totally other podcast episode. 

Robyn: So similarly, when this possum pathway is activated, what we want to be thinking about is safety. How do I bring safety? The amount of connection that is experienced safely by this child and regulation/ co-regulation in this moment? What do I- what could I offer this child that would bring enough safety, bring enough soothing into their nervous system, that their whole brain would feel safe enough to start to return? Because the owl brain is the pathway of safety and connection. And when owl brain is in charge, the behaviors that you're hoping for things like cooperation, empathy, frustration tolerance, those kinds of things. Those are all watch- or owl brain behaviors. 

Robyn: So again, I know I didn't give you any interventions. That's not the point of today's episode. There's a lot of places to go and get ideas for interventions. I'll talk about that before I sign off today. But- but even though I didn't actually give you an intervention, the intervention is safety. And each level of watchdog or possum brain is going to respond differently to different interventions. What a terror level watchdog brain needs is different than an alarm brain possum, right? I mean, it's even different than when an alarm brain watchdog needs. It- it- there's different interventions, and different ways of being ourselves that are going to to be more effective for these different levels of watchdogs and possums. So a huge way that I work with families is helping them get to know their child and themselves. Owl, watchdog, and possum brain and the different levels of activation and the different behaviors that they typically see. And their child's different level of activation. In fact, this is- I think that this podcast episode is going to air in July of 2020 2. 2022. And in this month in The Club, that's what our focus is we always have like a monthly focus and we're focusing in The Club this month on really getting to know that owl, watchdog, and possum brain because we need to know what, kinda, level our child is in. And honestly all this is for ourselves too. If we want to be as effective as possible with the interventions that we use. Also, knowing what level of activation, or level of watchdog brain, or level of possum brain that our child is in helps us have appropriate expectations about like how fast is this going to change. Because a possum brain kid who's really far out on the level of activation, like in fear or terror, takes a really really long time for that that level of possum brain to regain safety and come back into the owl brain. And I think understanding that helps us as parents then have appropriate expectations, and more patience and stay more regulated more often. Not perfectly, because sometimes we just can't take it anymore. Sometimes we just have to get out the door. There's all sorts of things that get in the way of us. But I have absolutely found- and this is true in my own life, that when I can conceptualize the behavior through the lens of what's happening in the nervous system, I stay so much more regulated. 

Robyn: So this is why even though I haven't given you really any interventions, changing how you see behavior changes behavior. It- it is an intervention and I know it doesn't feel like one but it is! That changing how we see the behavior can contribute to changing the behavior. Because it changes us. It changes our perspective on the behavior. It changes our regulation. It means we're much more likely to be with our child who's in their watchdog or possum brain while we stay in our owl brain. And, y’all, that really truly is intervention. Because, when it comes right down to it, watchdogs and po- possum brain kids need connection and safety. And connection and safety comes from the owl brain, which means we have to stay in owl brain. And seeing  behavior through this lens tends to help the grownups stay more anchored in their owl brain. 

Robyn: Now, I also know that that's really easy for me to say, and it's not enough. Like you do need ideas, you do need interventions, you do need practical tips on what actually to do. So as we get to the end of this episode, I want to give you just a couple of options for where you can go to search out some of those interventions. I've already mentioned it but the first thing you can do is head to RobynGobbel.com/podcast. And there is a search bar, and you can search for previous episodes that might relate to the specific problem that you need help with. That's free, that's always available, always accessible. You can listen to the podcast episodes or read the accompanying, like, long summary blog posts or the transcript right on my website. Or you can just find the episode and then head back to your podcast app. And look for the episode and then listen to the episode- episode there and your podcast app like you're probably listening to this one. 

Robyn: If you need even more support than that, I’d love for you to come and join us over in The Club. The Club is my virtual community for parents of kids with big, baffling behaviors. And we- we take in new members periodically so it's not always open for new members. If it's not open right now, at the time you're listening to this episode, you can still head to the website, put yourself on the waiting list so that you know when it is open. And that's at RobynGobbel.com/TheClub. But The Club offers more support in several different ways. One, it has a forum so you know forums are accessible 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I'm super active in the forum and I also have a team of coaches that are active in the forum but the parents in The Club are amazing. And they are offering amazing support, and ideas for these biggest, most baffling behaviors as well. We have a monthly masterclass always and that kind of covers a specific topic. Like I said this month, and I think this episode is going to air in July, where we're really going into getting to know the owl watchdog on possum brain. We just recently did a whole month on talking about scaffolding. And that was really fun. We've done months on grief. We've done months on strengthening the foundation of the brain. We've done all sorts of things. And so we have this monthly masterclass. And then we also have this monthly meeting where we get together and, I call it put it into practice. And that's where it's very casual, we come together, we ask questions, we share ideas. And we it's where I say like, Hey, our kids, our kids don't know the theory. So I can teach you all the theory and a bunch of great ideas. But then you have to actually use it in real life. So that's what we do put into practice, like, Okay, how do we use these ideas in real life. And then we have a huge video library of searchable videos. So all the previous master classes, all our previous putting it into practices. Everything we've done with The Club gets stored in this video library, and it's searchable. And so if you're having a challenge, and you're not sure you know how to respond to specific behavior, you can just search the video library. And then also, like if you were watching- watching a video and you need some more help, like I don't know how to use this concept specifically with my kid, or how does this relate to my specific situation. That's what the forum is for. So if you need more help than just listening to a podcast, that is another option for you. And it's just a monthly membership experience. So if you got everything you needed in a month, you don't have to stay any longer than that. Some people have been in The Club for 18 months, since it began. Some people come for just a month, get what they need, and then and then leave. So lots of options. And if you're a professional and you work with parents, and you wan to use this model in your work with parents, you can come and check out and see if my year long immersion program, it's called Being With, is the right thing for you and what you're doing with- what you want to do professionally. So Being With equips you with the science, and the tools, and then the regulation for yourself. So that you can work with families with kids with these biggest, most baffling behaviors. These big watchdog and possum brain behaviors. And you can do that with confidence and clarity. Being with graduates receive the licensing rights to teach my parent course and your- to your clients and in your community. Which also means parents who are listening right now, that soon parents all over the world are gonna have access to professionals who can help them- can help you, right? With these confusing watchdog and possum brain behavior. So that's a huge goal of mine is, how many professionals can I get connected with, and equip them with this material so that you have people in your community people that you can- people that you can access to really help you take this information and mean- make it mean something in your life. So again, that's my professional training program. Being With. It runs January through December. So depending on when you're hearing this episode, just head over to RobynGobbel.com/BeingWith and get on the waiting list or submit your application or enroll. Again, it kind of depends on the time of year you're hearing- hearing this episode. 

Robyn: And then finally, I mentioned at the beginning, but if you haven't already downloaded my free ebook, which is called What Behavior Really Is, go and do that because you can read more about owls, watchdogs, and possums. It's a little less in depth, it's a bigger picture overview but it's in writing and it has some helpful visuals, and pictures, and images that I think kind of can help all of this information just continue to make more sense and solidify more, and more, and more into your memory networks.

Robyn: So there you have it! That's my paradigm on looking at behavior. Is this an owl brain behavior, a watchdog brain behavior, and possum brain behavior? Because if it's an owl brain behavior, awesome. But if it's a watchdog or possum brain behavior, how do we bring safety regulation, and connection, to the watchdog and the possum brain so that the owl feels safe enough to return. Because that- that- the behavior that you're hoping for, and again you all this is about ourselves too, but the behavior that you're hoping for, you're going to almost certainly find emerging from the wise old owl brain. Now that- there's nothing wrong or bad about the watchdog or possum brain. The watchdog and possum brains are so brave, and so valiant, and working so, so hard for our survival- for our kids survival. We need to have gratitude, and compassion for the watchdog and possum brain. But we also want them to only work as hard as they have to. So we want to bring safety, and connection, and co-regulation to the watchdog and possum brain so that they can rest. They can experience safety and let the owl brain be in charge so they can just kind of like rest. Rest and play. Again, that ebook is over at RobynGobbel.com/masterclass. 

Robyn: All right, this is a super fun episode to record for you. I love thinking about owls, watchdogs, and possums. It has changed my life so much to think about behavior through this lens. It's changed me to think about my own behavior this way, but also the behavior of the people in my family, and certainly the clients and all the families who trust me, and all the kids who have brought their watchdogs and possum brains in to meet me. 

Robyn: All right, if you're new to the podcast well, even if you're not new to the podcast, I hope you come back next week. This episode should air in July of 2022. And I know prior to this episode airing, I've been a little less predictable with bringing you podcast episodes, because I've been working so hard. I'm finishing my manuscript and submitting it to the publisher. And that's done, done, done, and done. So I am back! You can look forward to more regular podcast episodes. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for loving kids and caring about kids. And if you know somebody who would really benefit from shifting their perspective on seeing and how they see kids behaviors, definitely send them to the podcast, to this episode specifically. Thank you all so much. I will see you back here next week.