Q&A: After Experiencing Post-Adoption Depression, My Child and I are Struggling. I Need Help! {EP 77}

Robyn: Hello, hello, and welcome to this Fridays in February, although yeah, I know it's March now, Q&A episode on the Parenting After Trauma podcast. I'm Robyn Gobbel, your host. This is the last Q&A episode that we're going to do for a while though, I am going to leave the Q&A hotline open and I'll just be doing these Q&A episodes occasionally as questions come in. So let's get going. Let's listen to this caller's question.

Anonymous Caller: I experienced post-adoption depression when my son was adopted as a newborn. Now he has some behaviors that make it hard for me to parent with compassion.  How do we get out of this stuckness?

Robyn: Oh my. This is such a vulnerable, vulnerable question. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for trusting me to answer your question. And thank you for trusting, like, all the listeners. All my amazing listeners for holding your question and all of this pain. Your final question, like at the very end of your voicemail there was, ‘how do I get out of this stuckness?’. So the path out of this sensation that you're describing as stuckness starts with self compassion. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, this might sound like old news. But I just keep talking about self compassion, because it's really that important and that powerful. Compassion is the neurobiology of change. So finding places that will connect with you and your biggest, deepest pain with compassion is crucial. If you have a parenting partner, maybe that's the place. Or maybe there's a friend or a therapist that you can connect with and really receive true, honest, authentic compassion. Or, you said in your message that you're thinking about joining The Club. And I can tell you what, like, that is exactly a place where you will feel showered in compassion. Not only if you like, brought this exact question to the forum, everybody would respond with so much compassion. But also just like being in The Club and seeing how there's no exceptions to this idea that everybody and every feeling deserves compassion. Like you just- inside The Club that has such a palpable experience and value, that there's just no exceptions to the fact that everybody is- and every feeling is where they have compassion. And so even if you didn't bring this question to the forum, just being in The Club, and being in a space that holds that value so closely, and hearing how everybody talks to one another. Then- eventually it's like, it's not possible for you to not start to feel yourself like ‘oh, even me and my hurts are worthy of compassion’. 

Robyn: For the neurobiology of the brain to change and release you from this stuck place, compassion is the way. Compassion isn't justifying or excusing and compassion isn't pity. Compassion is ‘wow, this is such a hard way to feel’. And, if I had to guess, there's also a lot of grief underneath all of those feelings for both you and your child, I'm sure. Though, for now, let's just stay focused on you. There's a lot of grief for all members of an adoptive family. It can feel hard for adoptive parents to hold their grief because our culture so often tells us that we can't have two conflicting feelings at once. But that is just simply completely not true. You can absolutely feel grief and love. You can adore your child with a fierceness that takes your breath away. And also feel grief. Grief related to adoption as well as grief related to having your first weeks and months or maybe even years. You know, you don't go into that in your question. And that's fine. But for however long the- the first beginnings of togetherness with you and your precious child was clouded over by depression. And then grief that things continue to just be so hard now. There is a lot of grief in parenting. There's so many of us that have moments where we think ‘this is not what I imagined’. And it's okay to acknowledge that and really grieve that. And then to have a lot of compassion for ourselves. Compassion is about recognizing suffering, and there's suffering for both of you here. 

Robyn: Also, just hold us some curiosity about how much opportunity Your son has had to grieve the loss of his mother and his family before adoption, as well as his experiences as an infant, having a primary caregiver who was suffering from depression. If it doesn't feel too painful, it might be helpful to learn a bit about the experiences of an infant with a primary caregiver who is suffering from depression. And this isn't about blame or shame, but just about understanding. I- for me, it really helps me move into compassion. And then- and truly being able to grieve and then sort of move on to the next step when I- when I understand. And so that's why I really like- I like to go searching for these things like ‘what is the experience of an infant whose caregiver was- was suffering from depression’. That might not feel helpful for you. But if it does feel helpful, that could be something to explore. There's some pieces in the chapter on Avoidant Attachment in my Brilliance of Attachment ebook, which is free, by the way, at RobynGobbel.com/ebook. But some of the pieces about avoidant attachment might resonate. Depression in a caregiver can definitely lend itself to the development of avoidant attachment. And- I'm definitely- certainly making no assessments here about anybody's attachment. It's just not uncommon. And so there could be a few helpful thoughts over there in that ebook. So again, that was RobynGobbel.com/ebook. 

Robyn: I know unfortunately, like so many families just don't have access to a good therapist. But if you do, and if you haven't explored that yet, it's- it's really worth considering. A great therapist who could help you grieve and really feel seen, and known, and not judged in your own grief. And then help you repair with your son. Possibly through an experience like theraplay, something like that could be helpful. Kids often need both reparative experiences with their parents, as well as their own therapy to make sense of their own experiences. So a therapist who takes a systems approach, you know, really honoring all parts of the system that need healing, including you and your son as individuals as well as your relationship. So in addition to theraplay, the other kind of therapy, I would consider looking into is a therapist who's trained in something called dyadic developmental psychotherapy, or DDP.

Robyn: When kids are stuck in a place that's leading to really rude behavior, one question I want to ask myself is, ‘does this kid know it's okay to express those feelings? And do they know how to do that in a way that could increase connection instead of decreasing connection?’. So I'm going to just make up an example that's very possible that you know, that you call this question in and like nothing like this is existing in your home, but I'm just going to make up an example. And hopefully it gets close enough where you can draw some- draw some helpful tidbits from it. So for example, let's say a kid says something like ‘gosh, Mom, you're such an idiot’. Okay, well, yeah, that's rude. And- but yeah, there's also a feeling there and it isn't just my mom's an idiot. There's another feeling there, promise. So the feeling might be something like ‘you don't even know me’, or ‘you don't understand me’, or ‘I don't like how I feel in this family’, or ‘I don't feel like you get me’, or ‘I don't feel like I belong in this family’, or ‘I don't feel like anyone ever listens to me’. I'm just tossing out a lot of different options here. I obviously have no idea what could possibly true- be possibly true in this particular family. It could be some of those things, it could be one of those things, it could be none of those things, and it’s something completely different. But my point is that we want to find ways for us to communicate to our kids, that it's okay to have those feelings, right? But ‘my mom is an idiot’ isn't exactly a feeling. It's a thought. There's a feeling that's underneath that thought. And we want to see if we can get at that. And really, at first, when you're first starting to kind of play around with this way of being with your kid, we don't even want to really first focus on the behavior, like don't even focus on the fact that he called you an idiot, right? And we will in the future, I promise. I always want to assure parents like I am interested in the same thing that you are, which truly is, as your kid learns how to express their feelings in a way that doesn't hurt relationships, what actually makes it stronger. I mean, it might feel like, your goal is that your kid doesn't call you an idiot. But again, if we go to the underneath that it really is that your kid can express feelings in a way that strengthens relationships instead of hurts them. Right? So I have the same goal as you. We'll get to that eventually. But first, we're gonna not even focus on how he called you an idiot, right? Like, just try not to react to that at all, and stay super curious about what the feeling is something like, ‘oh, I'm an idiot. I wonder if it feels like I just don't get it at all’. That's really important to use his words like, ‘I wonder’, right? We don't want to leave our dysregulated kids feeling like we think we know more about them than they know about themselves. That tends to just increase dysregulation. So use words like ‘I wonder if’, right? Stay open to lots of curiosity. Right? So let's play this all the way through again. ‘Oh, you think I'm an idiot? I wonder if it feels like I just don't get it at all’. And then maybe your kid responds with ‘yeah, you totally don't get it cuz you're an idiot’. And then you might respond with something like, ‘yeah, I totally don't get it’. Right? See how we're just staying with: empathize, empathize. I see you, I see you. I know you, I know you, your feelings are welcome here. Right? And we're, for now, we're just sort of overlooking the whole, like, rude calling you an idiot thing. Not forever, but for now. Right? Before you're gonna get anywhere redirecting words like idiot. Your kid's gonna just need so much proof that you're actually truly interested in the feeling underneath. So after a while, and this could be days or weeks. I mean, I don't know how long this will take. But after a while, you can start to add more in. So you can say something like, ‘yeah, I totally don't get it. You know, kiddo, can always tell me when it feels like I totally don't get it. I always want to know your feelings. Can you tell me those feelings without calling me an idiot?’. 

Robyn: This kind of stuff is also really, really important to address and what I call the whole outside the moment moments, right? So not in always response to a negative behavior, we actually want to be thinking about how are we laying the groundwork, setting the rules, and our family culture when we aren't in the middle of making a behavior correction. So be thinking about your family rules and your culture, make it super clear. In this family, all feelings are okay, not all behavior is okay. And this feeling everyone gets to be safe. The grownups and the kids. Calling people names isn't keeping everyone safe.

Robyn: So yeah, just be thinking about like, ‘how does everyone in my family know that these are our family values?’. I mean, it could be as simple as, like, making a poster out of them or just talking about these things. It's just helpful to do it, not only in response to trying to correct rude behavior, right? Do this in just regular times. 

Robyn: Alright, so this was such a big question. I want to give you a really quick summary number one, self compassion and grief. Compassion is the neurobiology of change. Both you and your son have a lot of reasons, have big feelings and grief that deserves to be seen, and known, and held with compassion. Number two, make sure your child has an opportunity to have their feelings really known and processed. This might need to happen inside of a good therapy relationship. Number three, I think therapy is a great idea for everyone! For mom, for child, and for the relationship between the two of you. Therapy that's adoption competent, and relationally focused, super important. And number four, look for opportunities to really hear beneath the root behavior and listen to the feeling. Then look for ways to teach your kid that all feelings are okay, even if not all behavior is okay. And be very overt about this. Say things like ‘you can tell me how you feel, even if you're mad or you think it will hurt my feelings’, right? This, of course, is going to take some time. A lot of scaffolding and a lot of trust on your son's part. So you said you're taking parenting after trauma. So in the course, you can head to parenting after trauma and look at the section on scaffolding, which is in module seven, and apply that to this piece of scaffolding and for your son. That it's true that in your family, all feelings are welcome. As well as the section on reconnecting with owl brain, which is in module nine. And then you mentioned in your question that you've also considered joining The Club. So first of all, in The Club, you- we can, like, work this through with you. Like we can really talk with you about ‘how do we scaffold this for your son? How do we scaffold in your family, the idea that all feelings are welcomed, even if all behaviors aren't welcome’. But also, if you do come and join us in The Club. Check out the video, so there's a big on demand video library, so check out the video on Grief in Foster and Adopted Kids and Families that's in that on demand video library. Because I think that's going to help so, so much. It really speaks to and honors the grief in both adoptive parents and adoptive kids and then gives some really practical tips on how to support your kids and you yourself as- in the grown ups through that grief. And then there's several videos on self compassion. So I think those experiences and learning about self compassion can be really helpful. And oh, that's right. There is a video from when we explored avoidant attachment. So it kind of goes in connection with that ebook. That video exploring avoidant attachment again, in The Club on Demand Learning Library. 

Robyn: Okay, y'all. I just want to say one more time again. Just- I have so much gratitude for the caller who asked this question. It's a super brave question. And it's really, really hard to be honest with ourselves about these kinds of things. And then it's, of course, just even braver to call that question in. So thank you for trusting me. Thank you. And I'm positive there's other listeners who really benefited from- from your question. 

Robyn: Alright, y'all, this question brings an end to this weekly Q&A series. I wanted to try it out. I did this Fridays in February thing. And yes, I know you're hearing this in- on a Friday, the first Friday of March. It wasn't that many Fridays in February. So I wanted to try this out. And here's what I think I learned. It's been so fun. I've loved it. Loved it, loved it, loved it. And so I'm just gonna leave that Q&A hotline open. And I'll publish the occasional Q&A episode as new questions come in. So probably not one every week. But as they come in, I'll answer the questions and I'll publish them here on the podcast. So you can call the question in by heading over to RobynGobbel.com/podcasts. Look for the box that says ‘send me a question’ and you can record your question right there. Like right on my website. You just hit a button, and it records. This has been a really, really fun series, y'all. It's been really awesome to feel even more connected to each of you. So thank you for participating. Alright, y'all come back next week for our regular Tuesday podcast episodes. I'll see you then.