Is Regulated The Goal? {EP 179}

Robyn: For me, it means we can return we're going to really return to baseline with some ease once the stressor is over. So like our stress response system kicks in, does what it's supposed to do when we're faced with a stressor, and then backs off and allows us to return to baseline with some ease. That doesn't mean the nervous system is always regulated, meaning it's always in balance. It means though, that overall, the nervous system is regulated, and that there is overall balance to it. Does that- does that make sense? We really want to be sure that we aren't approaching the idea of being quote-unquote, regulated, as just kind of this backdoor way into behavior management or kind of manipulating somebody's behaviors or the state of somebody else's nervous system. Okay? I don't want to approach, y'all this is theoretical- Theoretically, I don't want to approach somebody else with the goal of getting them regulated, because generally speaking, if I'm trying to change somebody, if I'm going to add somebody with an agenda, like how do I get them regulated? That typically means I'm not regulated? Now, again, this is all theoretical. I totally get that if you have a kid who has a dysregulated nervous system to the point of dangerous behaviors, that of course there is this sense of, 'I want to get them regulated and I want change the state of their regulation.' I really, really, really get that done. that's leading me though into kind of this next thing I'm going to say. So I'm going to say it and then you're going to wait for me to explain this more.    

Robyn: Regulated regulation isn't better than this regulated, regulated isn't inherently better. Regulated, actually isn't the goal. If we're talking about this is like one moment in time, okay. I do my best not to approach somebody with an agenda of getting their nervous system to change in this moment. Also, without question, my entire life is dedicated to supporting folks, and increasing the regulation and their nervous system, increasing the ease in their nervous system, increasing their capacity to tolerate stress, and increasing the ease in which they can return to baseline when they do have a stress response. And that is a little bit different than having an agenda of I want you to be regulated in this moment, like regulated meaning like this moment to moment state versus, regulated meaning sort of this descriptor of the nervous system does. Does that make sense? Is what I'm saying, hopefully making some sense? And the truth is, from a purely physiological standpoint, regulated, isn't necessarily better than dysregulated. Again, when I'm talking about, like, in these moment-to-moment shifts and changes in the nervous system or regulated moment isn't better, or what we're going for over a dysregulated moment. Now. I said this was theoretical. Saying regulated is not the goal or regulated is not necessarily better than being dysregulated. It's not something I say ever, to the parents who listened to me, or the parents in the club, or the parents that I get, you know, have the privilege of being in front of and teaching and training, right? Because I know for y'all that the consequences of your child's dysregulation is substantial, right? That the risks of a dysregulated nervous system is, is significant. If most of the parents in my audience were parenting, neurotypical kids, and simply looking to shift their parenting, to be more focused on regulation, and more focused on the nervous system and away from punishments and consequences, then, yeah, I'd absolutely say things like regulated isn't better than dysregulated, all the time, like we would constantly be talking about in the constantly kind of coming back to that.    

Robyn: Because I do think having this bigger overall paradigm shift away from how people are, quote-unquote, supposed to be is important. But the folks who are listening to my podcast, right? To say something like, regulated it's not even the goal regulated, it's not better than dysregulated. I don't know, I feel like that's kind of miss attuned. Right? In a way I feel like that just sounds a little bit bonkers. For the folks who are listening to my podcast, regulated is certainly a less destructive and dangerous and exhausting state, right, for sure. And it's hard not to say that regulated isn't better than dysregulated where right? I mean, there's a part of that that's like, 'Well, yeah, regulated way better than dysregulated. It feels way better. It's less exhausting. It's way less dangerous. There's way fewer catastrophic outcomes or consequences.' Yeah. So with that in mind, why did I want to do this particular podcast episode? Why did I want to tackle this question of is regulated, really, the goal is regulated better than dysregulated?  

Robyn: I know from personal experience, that chronic protection mode leads to rigidity. And I'm talking about mine, like my own chronic protection mode and my own rigidity, right? Chronic protection mode leads us to become very achievement driven, instead of journey driven, chronic protection mode leaves us being kind of stuck on the outcome. And when we're stuck on the outcome, we start to run the risk of making choices that we think are most likely going to get us to that outcome, as opposed to kind of sticking with the journey. And when we start to get focused on the outcome, we can lose our humanity, like we can lose our presence, our connection, and it can start to feel a bit objectifying and manipulating manipulative, even right when we start to get outcome focused. But here's the other big drawback of being outcome focused, is it can start to feel like we must get our kids to be regulated. And if we're not, then the only explanation for that is that we've failed, right? That we've done poorly as parents. And there's a whole lot that's going into that right that somehow it's my job to control my child. And when I can't, I'm failing.    

Robyn: And then that decreases, of course, our capacity to offer coregulation, because we stop offering authentic coregulation, the moment we start manipulating or trying to change someone else. And also, I get that if you're listening to this podcast, you spend a lot of time trying to change someone else, it makes perfect sense, you're not doing it wrong, that's not bad. And I'm not going to attempt to get you to stop doing that. But I do think it's helpful for us to take a step back every now and again and look at what the bigger picture is. And remind ourselves like, even if I can't do this all the time, it's good to kind of dip our toes back into kind of the core theory, like what are what are we doing here? And the truth is, is that dysregulation all by itself isn't bad. Yes, oftentimes, for those of you listening, maybe most of the time, dysregulation leads to some very bad things. But the dysregulation itself, the state of the nervous system itself, not the behaviors that come from it, but the state of the nervous system itself, isn't inherently bad. In fact, it's necessary. And we could look at it like an opportunity. Now, I know that sounds absurd. And it could maybe even feel like asking someone who just had a terrible tragedy to see what the positive is or what the gift of it is. And I don't believe in doing that. I do not believe in always finding a silver lining. I do not believe in always turning the bad into good. Definitely don't believe in toxic positivity, right. So I'm not attempting to say that we should look at dysregulation as a gift. That's not what I'm trying to convey. But if we pause and just say really focused on the physiology of regulation, and dysregulation, dysregulation is always an opportunity for coregualtion.    

Robyn: Now, for kids who don't have a sensitized stress response system, this can be much easier to see. So if you're in a family or you know, lots of kids and you know, one kid with a very sensitized stress response system, and that's why listen to this podcast, maybe you know other kids who don't, you know kids who have more kind of resilient stress response systems. It can be easier to see how dysregulation is really kind of this opportunity to find regulation again, right? Like dysregulation is kind of like the inevitable flipside to regulation, you just simply can't have one without the other, that's why the nervous system is about balance. The nervous system isn't about always saying regulated, it's about adjusting to stimuli to stressors, and then re-finding balance again, and again, if you know anybody with a pretty regulated nervous system with a pretty resilient stress response system that dysregulation is certainly uncomfortable, but dysregulation is kind of like a nervous system reset. It's an opportunity for the nervous system to grow to increase its, you know, stress capacity. There has to be one for there to be the other. Now, of course, for kids was very sensitized stress response systems with tons of vulnerability in their nervous system, this is so much harder to see, their behaviors are so big and so baffling. And so confusing that we just get totally distracted by the behaviors, right? When we fall down the protection mode, pathway, ourself, and get real hyper focused on just making the behavior stop, instead of offering the co-regulation that's needed to not just potentially shift the behavior in the moment, but to actually strengthen the stress response system for the long term, because we strengthen that stress response system through meeting dysregulation with co-regulation.    

Robyn: Now, of course, some behavior is dangerous. And we've got to figure out a way to immediately make it stop, we're not thinking about curb regulation at all, we're not thinking about like staying regulated ourselves. We're thinking about what's the best course of action and get this behavior to stop, because that's the safest thing that needs to happen. But some behaviors feel like it needs to immediately stop, right? Like sassiness, or disrespect. But actually, there are moments where we could shift our focus, not to stopping, but to co-regulating, I mean, even defiance, yelling, cussing, and even some verbal aggression, could be met with co-regulation, instead of trying to get it to immediately stop. Right? is regulated the goal? Well, maybe, if we're using the word regulated to mean the ability to shift with ease. But usually, when we're facing dysregulated behavior, and it feels like regulated is a goal, we're not talking about, 'oh, I wish this nervous system was more flexible and could shift with greater ease. And this dysregulation is okay, I just wish it would, you know, have some better capacity to shift back into regulation with more ease.' That's not typically what we mean, when we say I wish they would be more regulated. Usually what we say that, when we say that we're like, 'I wish that they're just regulation with stop and this behavior would stop, right?' That's usually what we mean.    

Robyn: Okay, now we're facing somebody who's screaming at us and hollering at us cussing at us calling us bad names? Do we feel pretty compelled to get that behavior to stop? Well, of course we do. Right? Nobody likes to be hollered at, being in relationship with somebody who's regulated feels way better. But also, y'all know this, that being in relationship with someone who is always regulated, it's just not real life. And the only way to be in a relationship with regulated people, is to be in relationship with dysregulated people to because they're the same, that all people are regulated and dysregulated. Now, again, I know that this can feel possibly quite miss attuned for those of you who have kids who are extremely dysregulated. Right? That there is absolutely a very big part of you, that doesn't want to be in relationship with a kid who's always regulated, but you want to be in relationship with a kid who has shifts of regulation and dysregulation that feel typical or average, right? But pause and think about, I want you to just pausing and hear what I said again, you actually aren't longing to be in relationship with a child who's always regulated, that isn't actually what  you're aiming for. I know you're not. You're just aiming for there to be more ease, you're looking at other people's families, and you're like, I wish we had those problems. Like I wish we had that kind of dysregulation, I could deal with that this regulation we have here, whew. Like that level, the intensity of it, the frequency of it, that's what's hard. It's not the dysregulation itself. It's the frequency of it. It's the intensity of it, it's the outcomes of it.   

Robyn: Y'all, I promise, if you're parenting kids with really resilient trust response systems, you and I would be having very different conversations. I get, that of course, 99% of the time your child is dysregulated you just want it to stop. And we'll do something, anything to try to get it to stop. And sometimes those attempts might even work, right? So if I pause and just look at my own experience, usually my attempts at getting other people's dysregulation to stop actually isn't super successful. Because I end up saying ridiculous things like why are you acting this way or you're being super unreasonable or just other, you know, really helpful things like that, right? But it makes perfect sense that I do that. I can make sense that I do that and I can try to increase how often I respond to that dysregulation with co-regulation, not because regulation is the goal, but because co-regulation is kind and loving. And yes, co-regulation is laying the groundwork for increasing regulation. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I lean into that truth a lot when I teach, because I want parents to see the long game. That we're not just changing how we respond to behavior in the moment. But we're changing the way we respond to behavior in the moment because it strengthens the stress response system. In increasing our kids capacity to remain regulated in the face of stress, strengthening their stress response system, so that they can return to regulation when the stressor is complete. Yes, that's the goal. But quote-unquote, getting someone regulated, that isn't the goal.    

Robyn: In fact, if I'm with a dysregulated person, my goal shouldn't be about them at all. The goal actually should be for myself. The goal for me is, can I increase my capacity for being with this dysregulation, and y'all, of course, I'm not talking about physical violence and danger. When there's not physical violence and danger, can I increase my capacity to be with this dysregulation? Can I do that even just 1%? There's this passage in my book that I want to read to you. It's pretty close to the beginning of chapter six, right after my session with Nat winds down and I move on to the next kind of portion of the book, it's pretty close to there under the heading, What's The Need. And the section reads, "Responding to your child's dysregulation, their Watchdog or Possum brain, with co-regulation will feel like holding onto a ball of fire. Instead of reaching for the fire extinguisher and putting it out. You're going to wonder how this could possibly be the right way to respond. It's going to feel confusing. You're going to get to a point where you'll be asking yourself or screaming to the sky wishing you could ask me directly, how this way of parenting well possibly teach your child not to behave this way. You'll be wondering, 'If I don't make my child stop this behavior by just teaching them that acting this way is okay?' Let me go ahead and answer that question now, no. The Watchdog and Possum brains are not connected enough to the Owl brain for any learning to occur, including that acting this way is okay. Your child's dysregulated behavior isn't happening because they think it's okay to act that way. They know it's not okay to act that way. They're doing it anyway."    

Robyn: So again, that was, it's pretty early on in chapter six, if you want to find that that's quote in the book. So that brings me back to where we started is regulated the goal? Well, maybe it is for yourself. Maybe for yourself, the goal is, 'Can I increase my capacity to remain regulated, to remain mindful, present, not calm, so that my child's dysregulation has an opportunity to be met by regulation?' Yes, of course, I do want your child's regulatory circuits to strengthen because it's hard on everyone. It's hard on everyone in everything, to have a sensitized stress response system, flexibility in the sensitized stress response system, moving back and forth between regulation and dysregulation. That's the goal. Not just being regulated. If for no other reason, y'all, but if we are focused on regulation only, we are never going to stop feeling like we are constantly failing. And you are not failing. You are not failing if you feel like regulation is the goal. If you are like, I can't imagine being with my child's dysregulation, with any objective other than getting this behavior to stop, you are not failing. That is a perfectly human response to intense dysregulation coming from somebody else's nervous system that you can't control or stop, we don't like to be with dysregulated people, and the behaviors of dysregulated people aren't great. So it makes sense that it can feel like regulation is the goal. Okay? So please don't end this episode and be like, Oh my gosh, I absolutely want regulation to be my goal. I am absolutely not interested in welcoming dysregulation, I must be failing, you're not failing, you're having a perfectly normal human response to something very, very, very hard. Very hard.    

Robyn: And maybe you end this episode, just being open and curious about the idea of is regulated even the goal? Maybe you in this episode, being open and curious about what I said earlier, which is that I actually know if we pause and step back, you wouldn't say I want my kids to be regulated all the time, that that isn't your goal, what you want is for your child to have the flexibility in their nervous system and to move between regulation and dysregulation that it feels like other kids have right? When you look at other families, and you're like, how come my family's like not like that? Why does life and their family get to be so easy, right? When you look at families whose stressors are nothing like yours? Right? What you're looking at isn't a family who has kids who are always regulated, what you're looking at might be well- who knows what you're looking at, because you're only seeing what you see on the outside. But let's just say that it's true, that that family you're considering right now really does have some more ease. That's not because their kids are always regulated that's because their kids probably have more resilience in their stress response system, and they have more flexibility and how they shift between regulation and dysregulation. So maybe that's how you end this episode just kind of percolating on Hmm. Interesting. Actually, I don't want a kid who's regulated all the time, I want a kid who has the flexibility in their nervous system that they can shift back and forth with relative ease so that they feel better. And they have behaviors that are more inviting of connection and safety for those around them. You are not failing.    

Robyn: If you're listening to this and you're a member of The Club, I'd love you to hop into the forum and let's chat about this idea of regulation being the goal or not being the goal. And if you're not in The Club, but you are on social media, find my posts for todays podcasts over on either Facebook or Instagram. And leave me your thoughts there. Leave me your thoughts on today's post about today's podcast episode. I hope you'll meet me back here next week for the next episode of The Baffling Behavior Show. Until then, bye bye!