How Self Compassion Changed Things for This Mom {EP 78}

Robyn: Thank you so much for being willing to join me here today. Take some time out of your busy day. To be honest with you, I'm like- this is fun. These one on one sessions with people has been really quite rewarding to me. But I'm just really grateful for your willingness to be here today to chat with me. And you know, for everybody listening, who is maybe on the cusp of being like, “oh, I don't know if this is something I want to do or risk it or, or not”. I just- I'm really grateful for your time. So thank you.

Club Mom: Yeah, of course.

Robyn: I would love to just start with this big, huge, open ended question of: tell us about what your experience has been in The Club. And if that means starting with, you know, how you and I even got connected or why you joined The Club, what it's about- I mean, you can start with whatever you want.

Club Mom: So I- we talked about this earlier. I think I joined in late spring or early summer. I think that the first thing I did was I started the class, the neurobiology of toxic shame class. 

Robyn: Yes, I remember that. 

Club Mom: I feel like shame is a big hindrance for me when it comes to connecting with just- in marriage and even with my kids. And so I was like, well, I've never heard of toxic shame. I knew like shame is a problem for me specifically. It really, I think- holds me back. But anyway, I just- I joined the class. And I really felt like. I'm trying to remember how I felt towards the end of it. I think I just remember thinking like, everybody needs to take this class! I want to say that it took me a little bit before I really jumped into The Club because- but I was- but I started listening to.. tell me again what our-  what our- like the general community podcast is called I can't remember.

Robyn: Yeah, the- the Parenting After Trauma podcast. Yeah.

Club Mom: Yeah. I felt, I mean, I do remember I was driving to, like, a bunco, I think or something. I remember driving in the rain listening to one of your podcasts. And I was like, AH! I just feel so like, not alone. I don't even remember what I was listening to from that podcast, but it was so- I think it was like a breath of fresh air. It made me kind of feel like I need to give myself some compassion. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: I feel like I work- I work really hard to- to change myself. I want my parenting to be different than how I was raised. And I want my family to look different than what- I came from a pretty dysfunctional background. And so, but I think I needed to- I think I needed to hear, like, just take a breath. It's okay. You're trying really hard, and so are a lot of other parents. And these things, I don't know, I just, the things that you explained in the podcast really helped me to-. They just I don't know, you said something about The Club. And I was like, well, if this podcast is so good, makes me feel so good. [laughing] I should probably join The Club! Let's just see. So I really did go into it with just maybe planning on to try it for a month. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: And I did everything. I was like, I will hit all the things that month just. to you know, make sure I experienced it. And then I just haven't stopped because, I mean, I wrote- I was writing down some things like, what do I really value about The Club? I mean, when we do our connect and co -regulates, I do definitely feel less alone. 

Robyn: Yes

Club Mom: And I just think there's, I mean, we homeschool. So sometimes it's a little isolating already. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: But also, I think- I think this- is my personal opinion. But I think a lot of people don't think any of us really want to show other people that- our brokenness or that we are broken and don't have it all together. 

Robyn: Right. 

Club mom: And so I think I just- I don't need to hear everybody else's brokenness, to feel good about myself. But I do think it's nice to have. What is it called? That Kristin Neff calls that common humanity? 

Robyn: Yeah, the shared humanity? Yes. 

Club Mom: Yeah. Just none of us- all of us are struggling somehow, you know? And it just- all of us have hard moments. And so I think that's what I think I- I gained that through The Club, honestly. And then I was just thinking about, just like, the masterclasses and our practices and stuff like that. I feel like I've- I'm not really sure if I joined for me, or if I joined my growth, or if I join for, like my parenting. I feel like I've gotten more out of it for like, I mean, I think that's the goal, right? Like shaping ourselves.

Robyn: But they’re so intertwined. They're so intertwined, but some people's at the forefront of their minds certainly is more “I need this for myself” versus “I need it for my parenting”, but they're almost impossible. To like. Yeah. 

Club Mom: So intermingled? Yes. Yeah, I think and, [clears throat] excuse me. I mean, and just while I'm mentioning that, I was like, yeah, what- what are the things that I really feel like I've gleaned that have been freeing, would probably be a good word for me.

Robyn: Yeah.

Club Mom: I didn't really used to think I was a perfectionist, but I can see, like, I definitely grew up in this environment that I carry with me now where you needed to be perfect to stay safe, or you just needed to not mess up. Maybe like, it's not perfection. It's like, manifests as perfectionism, but it's more just this idea that like, anytime you mess up, is very unsafe. 

Robyn: Yes. 

Club Mom: So I think even how we phrase it- how you phrase things, and we phrase things about things not being necessarily positive or negative. But they just are. 

Robyn: Yeah.

Club Mom: I just feel like that gives me so much more relief and [indistinguishable]. I don't know, my body just like, really craves, um, I don't know how to explain it. It really craves, um, needing to be given a break. I don't know if that-

Robyn: Yes, it makes- it makes perfect sense to me. Like I really am intimately aware of that, like, I just sometimes feel like I need to rest from having to have almost like executed in such a manner constantly. Which is exhausting. Yeah.

Club Mom: Yes. And only in this last I would even say like, year. I mean, I've been- I've been in therapy for maybe like seven years, but I would say only in the last like year or year and a half have I even noticed like, oh my- I- Yeah, my body's wound really tight. Or I think a lot of us carry stress in our shoulders and stress in our hips. But I just didn't know how to really- I mean, only until like the last month or two since we've been talking about sensations. Like in my own therapy sessions. I'm like, Oh, I hold my breath a lot.

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: Or my husband will say my shoulders are tight and I'm like, wow, I don't know why that is. I, like, feel my shoulders now and I’m like hmm, those feel really tight. Or whenever I do get upset, I mean, I think everybody gets upset about stuff. All parents do.

Robyn: Sure!

Club Mom: So when I do get upset about stuff, I'm trying to tap in more to like what sensations I'm feeling? Because we've talked too. We’ve mentioned this about how- how you learn to shut off your sensations and even your feelings. You know, I think. And I didn't know I was so good at shutting off all those things until we talked about how “I don't know” it's for me, I think it's just a probably a- probably in the past being purpose- like purposely turning off the sensations maybe or like, [indistinguishable]. So trying to just, I think our master classes and some of our like, put it into practice classes have really helped me to- I think they provide a safety for me, to- to practice, like getting in touch with my own sensations. And obviously, you know, the more we do it for ourselves, that's how we provide it for our children. So I did a breathwork class, or not a class, I did a breath work, kind of like. It was like an hour and a half, supposed to be a mini session, but it was an hour and a half.

Robyn: That’s a long time. 

Club Mom: I only did it for about 30 minutes. But it was literally just- it was last night. It was- I know, this is not part of The Club, but I was gonna share. 

Robyn: Yeah!

Club Mom: All it was was breathing. And she told like, during our breathwork session, like you're safe. It was just like a free mini session, but you're safe. Your- your body knows what to do. And I feel like that kind of aligns with a lot of the stuff that I've been learning since I've joined The Club. Like, our bodies do these things for a reason, the way we act in our parenting or, for me, in marriage, or just in relationships.

Robyn: Yeah, yeah! 

Club Mom: You know, like coming to see your body is like, working for you and a good- a good body. You know?

Robyn: Yes!

Club Mom: It's done a lot of things for me, I've really, I've been a- I feel fortunate to be able to practice telling myself that I'm really proud of myself for all the things I did when I was little to survive, all the things I did when I was little to stay safe, and I- I do those things now still and- and that's okay. It's okay to learn about those things. It's okay, so I can feel myself I'm kind of like jittery. That's one thing I've been working on. Like, notice your sensations, like I said, so. I'm a little jittery. I think just yeah, telling myself that- these things aren't like, broken parts of me. They're actually things that my body did to help me when I was younger. When I didn't- I didn't even know I was doing them. I just- I- I just learned to survive. I learned to stay safe. I learned to comfort myself when nobody else could. And so it's okay now to see those things and to see them in my kids. And to see, I mean, I feel like that's kind of the phase I'm in right now. I'm like, okay, what do we do next? Right now I'm just noticing most of the stuff, you know? 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: Because I don't know, I feel like, I don't know, maybe just noticing it is how you. I don't know how you get- to how you get to change? I'm not sure. 

Robyn: Well, it's not non-negotiable piece of it, for sure. And in some ways, I think it's the hardest. Because we have spent, and I say we like this global we, I mean, I guess I could just say myself, like, we have spent so much time not noticing for just, and I like what you're saying is like, so amazing. Like the that you're able to feel that your body and brain and nervous system has done all these amazing things for you. Right? And that, this sweet spot of saying like, yes, it's all been in service of me. And also it's not without some consequences. It's- it's also bringing about some challenges in my life. Mostly just speaking from experience here. But when I know in my life when I could bring those two pieces together, and I know I've shared so much with y’all on The Club, and some of what you're saying is like, that's my experience as well. Like I was like, wait, there's sensations? I mean, like, what are you talking about? People feel things in their bodies? This is confusing to me. I don't even know what you're saying. And I- I actually remember very clearly, the day I said to my own therapist, like, I believe you that I'm exhausted. It makes sense to me from a cognitive standpoint. And because I know a lot. Like I am a therapist, like, I believe you that the way I am in the world is exhausting. I don't feel that at all. And then, yeah, and then eventually the- safety grew, and grew, and grew, starting to feel it like, oh, there's that exhaustion. But you can only feel it for so long, or like, it will just totally pull you over. And what at least it would have for me, like, incapacitated me, and I just have time for that. Right? This is where we just touch in and keep growing that safety. And there was a point for me when I, you know, and I closed my one on one practice, and just had this kind of like internal reckoning of like, what do I do next? There was a thought of like, surely there's aspects of this, that we can do in a way that's more accessible to people. Like some of these ways that have been- have like- have so profoundly shifted me. And I've watched profoundly shift other- other people as well, like, there's got to be a way to create this in a way that's more accessible to people. And also meeting people exactly where they are. In so many different, so many different kinds of ways. And so I think what I'm hearing you say is like, yeah, for the most part, that's been part of what The Club has been able to offer into your life.

Club Mom: Yeah, really, especially since COVID. But just like everybody knows how to use the internet now to connect with other people. And you can go anywhere and work from anywhere. And I just- there have definitely been times when, probably about five or six years ago, we were definitely like parenting wise. I mean, I became like an insta-parent over like, literally within the timespan of a month. I didn't go through a long, I don't know how much I should share or not. But I don't I didn't go through a long adoption process or anything. And so like, within the timeframe of a month, I became a parent, and kind of makes me tear up. I had no idea what I was doing. I don't you know- think anybody would have really, unless you like you didn't maybe yeah, like maybe in a daycare setting, but even then it's different, like coming, being in daycare, you know, like taking care of little kids versus taking care of your own. And so there were a lot of years whenever I was- I felt really helpless. And I just, I don't know, I look back on it now. And I'm like, Well, yeah, I tried my very best. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: But it was really- I probably will- I probably had some depression at certain points. So anyway, probably it was like five or six years ago, when we finally like, sought out professional help for our whole family just because I- we were just like, so hopeless. And yeah, I think The Club has been invaluable just to be able to have another avenue to practice things like to implement more things that you can practice here at home, or just, I mean, I know my kids are not involved in The Club. But it just- I feel like I've heard a lot of things that- I just have never heard before. You know, our manifesto talks about just like, regulate- I was- I had my husband print it. Like regulated and connected kids feel safe, and behave well. And I'm like, that's true about adults too!

Robyn: I know, right? 

Club Mom: Yeah, it's about ourselves, and how we do the same. And I just- I really needed more support. I didn't know that I needed more support, until I joined The Club. And then I was like, Yeah, this is, it feels a little bit like a missing piece. Partially because the- I have- I have the time to be able if I'm in the car, to listen to our masterclasses and I just feel like, even if I'm not allowed- I know this is gonna sound crazy- we'll actually you won't think it's crazy. But I like the information that I've gotten. I'm like, oh, I need to put this into practice. And then I'm like, It's okay. It will come.

Robyn: I love that so much! I love that shift, of like, I have to do this like, and then immediately into like, and it's okay, if I don't like it will come. I love that. Yeah.

Club Mom: And I think there's a component, I think you already kind of mentioned like, making it more accessible to people. Like I think that's also what brings about a certain kind of regulation? 

Robyn: Yes. 

Club Mom: Like being connected to other people, there have been a couple of times when I've written in our group, and I've said, this is really what's going on with my parenting, and- and how my child is behaving in the most- best- most privacy way I can explain it. And like, what do I do, and I felt it's, I personally feel like that's invaluable to have other people that either are more seasoned or just doing the same thing. And, you know, you've responded some- you've responded actually, yeah, to my posts. And I'm like, okay, yes, I can look at it from this angle, instead of the angle that I was already looking at it from. Because this other angle, is a different person that is seeing it from an outside point of view, and can kind of say, like, well, your child's nervous system might be doing this, or your nervous- nervous system might be doing this, or have you considered this, and this, and this. So generally, when I- when I have I generally when I have posted, it's been directly for advice. And I've valued that. Because sometimes I'm really clueless. I'm like, well, I know, I don't want to do it this way. I know that this situation is making me feel real upset. And I don't want to behave, that I don't want to be this way. Yeah. But I don't know what a better parenting style would be. 

Robyn: Well, that- I mean, you're just describing perfectly what happens when our- when our brains get really dysregulated. Right. Like, I mean, even having the thought of I know, I didn't want to do it this way is indicating, like, some regulation. Like the ability to take any kind of pause is amazing. But we can't use our thinking brains, we just cannot use our thinking brains. And so there's such a- there's such a sweet spot in somewhat just knowing, you know, when people come to the forum, and they're, you know, truly, like sometimes really freaking out about what's going on, and justifiably so. So much of what people really need is just to be seen and heard and a space to like, not be judged. And that level of co-regulation, then like, calms our brains down and brings our own thinking brains back online. And then we're like, okay, I can do this, or, okay, I can do this, but I actually still have no idea what to do. And so that's where, like, practical, you know, tools and tips and tricks are super useful. I think there's a time and a place- and time and a place for both. And I agree, like that was one of my main hopes for me, like it really just intentions, was a space that was always available. Because, you know, when we're scheduling appointments, or even support groups, or even like lunch dates, with friends. You know, they're at specific times on the calendars. And that's not necessarily exactly when we need like that dose of, you know, being really seen and known and, and co-regulated. And so that was really my hope this, like, we would create this forum that like, even if it is the middle of the night, and nobody is responding instantly. Just the touch point, right, just the like, this is the space, this is the place where I can leave this here and not worry about being judged. Or maybe I am worried about being judged. But as soon as somebody responds, I can take that breath and remember, like, nobody's here judging me. And we're holding each other to pretty high standards. And I think it's pretty remarkable that we can do- that we can do both. 

Club Mom: Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Robyn: Well it has been truly such- a just a total pleasure and delight to get to know you over the last- what is it's been like, you know, a year and a half probably at this point, since we took that- you took that class with me. And I have very clear memories of, of teaching that class and you being in the class. And, and knowing or, at least it feeling as though, this idea that we can be compassionate towards ourselves because we deserve it. Because there's nothing wrong with us. And also we can still, you know, hold ourselves to the expectation of like, and we can do something different in life. Like all of those things can be true. And- and, you know, being- watching you really take that in, and really make it a part of your like being in the world has been really remarkable. It's been really wonderful to watch that- brings us a little bit more ease to your life. Yeah. 

Club Mom: Yeah, it really has. [clears throat] Excuse me. Yeah, it has. And I mean, like we already mentioned, and that creates more space for you to be able to do that for your kids.

Robyn: Exactly. Exactly. 

Club Mom: Like, I don't think I really knew that. Sometimes I'll say things or my husband will say things and I'm like, wow, yeah. I don't want my kids to think that when they're adults.

Robyn: Yes!

Club Mom: Let's not pass that down to them. So I really think, yeah. I really do think yeah, like, viewing yourself in a more, I would say, more holistic way, you know?

Robyn: Yeah.

Club Mom: Just in viewing- I just, we'd behave. I do think we behave sometimes in ways like that are really- I mean, I do think they're fascinating at times, but I think I've done some destructive things, you know, like, relationally. And then I'm like, yeah, why am I doing that? But, like you said, like, I think embracing? Yeah. Embracing. Just, it's sort of like tiptoeing, right? Like a pool, like, we have a zero entry pool with one of those little mushroom things, you know, and so before my kids can swim, they're, you know, going into the zero entry part and swimming in there. And I think, sometimes, for me, allowing- hm. How would I describe it? Allowing myself the freedom to, to be able to tiptoe. You know, like, I just think my standards for myself for so long have been, I should be able to swim, I should be able to swim. You know? Why aren't you swimming? That doesn't help anybody learn how to swim. I just- my daughter just learned this previous summer. I'm like, no, that's not gonna work. Get swimming, come on!

Robyn: Exactly. I know, when you put it like that. It's like, oh, this feels so obvious. But at the same time, it isn't obvious in the moment and for so, so, so many reasons, our history, our culture, so many things. But when I think when I seriously imagine like this little tip toe, and it's like, what a revolutionary way to be with somebody to be like, that's so smart of you to tiptoe. So smart of you to like, dip your toe in, see what it's like, pull yourself back out, and then go, okay, I'll try that again. Or like, no, that was too cold. I'm gonna wait until- you know, or whatever happens. 

Club Mom: Like I’ll just sit nearby and watch for a minute.

Robyn: Like, the knowing of self. 

Club Mom: Yes. 

Robyn: As opposed to, I should be able to swim even though I've never seen water before ever in my life. Right?

Club Mom: Yeah, that’s true.

Robyn: Yeah. Yeah. And so to- to notice that about yourself, and then to notice that about our kids. It's sometimes, not all the time. Nobody's asking for perfection in any way, shape, or form, right? But maybe just a little bit more than- than we used to. And I think for so many of us, a little bit more than what we had when we were kids. So that our kids have just a little bit more, and then their kids have a little bit more. I think about that as like, well, you know, my kid’s kid is going to have a different experience in the world. And that's- that matters. That matters to me. So.

Club Mom: Yeah, you actually said, I mean, I- there's something about I- you know, I know I pay to be in The Club, but you know. But I'm paying for your expertise. And so I appreciate that. I hear things that helped me in my parenting journey, like you've said twice, because I'm like, oh, yeah, that's good. Just about, like, intergenerational trauma. Some of us are doing multiple generations of trauma- or healing from trauma. And I'm like, oh, yeah, like, I don't know anything about my grandparents. But I know enough about my parents and I know about enough about my upbringing to know, I've got like, double, if not decades, you know, like, drama that we're, you know, epigenetics and all this stuff, trying to change. And yeah, I appreciate that I get- I've found value in, you know, like the education that you have. I just I found- find value from that. So I mean, I'm a learner, I'm like, tell me all the things, but I do kind of wish all my friends- I- I'm like, um, oh, shoot, I'll just share this with, you know, this friend or that friend. I'm like, darn, you're not in The Club. So you can't, you can't listen to it. So, um, but I did want to ask you, you talked about- I think you mentioned that it's going to be expanding more to encompass, like families that even have kids, they would classify as like, neurodivergent. Can you mention, say anything about that? 

Robyn: Yeah, I definitely can. 

Club Mom: I feel like a lot of what we already do is completely applicable to all parents. 

Robyn: Yeah. 

Club Mom: But I, when I talk to my friends about it, I'm like, this is a little bit like, it's an adoption group that I'm in. But all of my friends, I feel like could benefit- all parents could benefit from being connected to other people.

Robyn: I completely agree. There's, so first of all, it's already happening. And that, you know, I- the vast majority of my audience knows about me and is connected to me because of, like adoption has touched their life in some way. So that is, you know, a huge portion of The Club is adoptive parents, but it's not 100% by any means. There's a lot of people in The Club who either like don't identify as adoptive parents, or maybe don't even identify as a parent of a kid with a history of trauma, but just has a kid who's like, really dysregulated for- for all sorts of reasons. So this question that you're asking is something I think about in- how I'm intentionally like trying to reach new people who I know would benefit so much from the information from my podcast. It's actually, you wouldn't believe how many people emailed me and asked me to change the name of my podcast. Because-

Club Mom: Oh, really?

Robyn: They, yes, it's quite remarkable. Yes. 

Club Mom: I had friends. Yeah, say similar things. Like they're acting like they have trauma, but they don't. 

Robyn: But they don't. 

Club Mom: It’s just a- just a regulation thing. 

Robyn:Yes. Yeah, exactly. It's just a dysregulation thing. And so it's something I do kind of ponder, I have such a strong desire for- for adoptive parents, specifically, or parents of kids with a history of trauma. To have a unique place that they're like, this is for me. And then other folks to be like, well, yeah, this is for me too. Like I can come in, and also really benefit. So I'm truly still sort of trying to balance because I- that part- that part just is so important to me. There really aren't very many places in the whole world for, you know, adoptive parents, specifically, or parents with kids with a history of trauma to be like, oh, this place is for me, I feel uniquely seen and known here, even before I get into it. And I'm like, I don't really want to lose that part. And so while trying to figure out how to not lose that part, while also being really clear, like, oh no, everyone's welcome. Like, if you have a kid who know, you know, behaviors are really dysregulated. And, or even, you know, I've had a couple of people join because they have histories of trauma. And it's very specifically more thinking about themselves as opposed to their kids. And- it’s well, yeah, they managed to get so remarkable when people can see how that all really intertwines. I'm not an expert in neurodivergence at all, and don't pretend to be, but there are so many ways that it's overlapping. If we are, if we're just thinking about like, what's happening right now. Like, what's happening right now is a nervous system that's wildly dysregulated. And then, so how, what do I do about that, in a way doesn't vary a ton, you know, because of the why. But understanding the why helps us as grown ups get more regulated. 

Club Mom: I see. 

Robyn: So it's this- just kinda- kind of constant balance. 

Club Mom: Yeah. 

Robyn: Yeah. So for anybody listening, like, without question. The Club is for anybody. Anybody who feels like I could benefit from that group of people. There's no like,- the only requirements for admission are kind of that the parts of our manifesto, right. That's the only requirements for admission. And without, yes, I mean, probably 80% is an adoptive family. Yeah, I've never taken a poll but that would be my guess. Yeah

Club Mom: Yeah. Yeah. Well and- 

Robyn: So invite your friends! 

Club Mom: Yeah, I know!

Robyn: Plus it really- just like you said, like, you can join for just a month. 

Club Mom: Yeah. 

Robyn: And I do think people know pretty quickly, like, oh, this is a- this is a community for me. Or like, no, this isn't what I was looking for. But I think taking that risk- the risk of just trying it out, it's super gutsy. It's really vulnerable. So.

Club Mom: Yeah. 

Robyn: Well, this has been so lovely. Thank you. I'm just so, so grateful for how you responded when I said “would you consider”- Yes!

Club Mom: I tried to be like, casual with my response. But I'm like, Well, I don't know. Maybe, maybe. I don't know. It sounds like I might get nervous. But I could try. 

Robyn: I think it makes a lot of sense to get a little bit nervous. And we're just hanging out together. So yeah, both are true.

Club Mom: Yeah. Well, I'm like, like we said, like, I'm learning to accept myself for who I am and how I am. And so I don't see that as a bad thing. 

Robyn: It's absolutely not a bad thing. Absolutely not. Oh, thank you, thank you for that, like just to you for being so willing. That's such a vulnerable thing to consider to be just okay with exactly who I am. And I'm going to show up in this way. And it's just gonna have to be okay. Like, it's so brave and so vulnerable and to get to be a part of that for you, like to get to be a part of you dipping your toe into that truth. And then of course, I'll never meet your kids, but to know what it is- what it must be to have a parent who is taking those kinds of risks is just everything. So thank you.