When Things Are Genuinely Impossible: One Dad’s Story {EP 266}

Robyn Gobbel  00:19

Welcome, or welcome back, folks, to another episode of The Baffling Behavior Show. It's me, your host, Robin Gobbel, and y'all. Today, I am so delighted to introduce you to a very special guest. I had the opportunity to interview a dad of children with big baffling behaviors. This dad is in the club and was eager to connect with me on the podcast and share his story with y'all. We don't get to hear from folks in the dad role very often, so this is so special. This dad is parenting some kids with some pretty intense behavioral needs, the family has had really an intense experience in general, but in particular, a lot has happened that's been extremely hard for them in the last year or so, and we've supported this dad in the club through their journey, and I've been so inspired by his ability to be extremely honest about how hard things are, and still stay grounded, and still hold on to hope, and still occasionally stay regulated, he's been able to do both, be honest about how unbelievably hard things are, and how his family needs more support, and also stay connected to his kids' humanity, his, the rest of his family's humanity and needs, and even hope, as well as awareness of the things in their life that aren't really hard and really terrible. This is such a unique ability to be honest about both, right, without leaning into disconnection or dissociation or toxic positivity, which would absolutely be coping skills that would make perfect sense here, and being able to keep a foot in both truths. Things are really, really, really hard, and I can still find a way to be okay. It's really remarkable. There is a brief moment in the middle of the episode where we had a little trouble with the audio, and the audio gets kind of sped up and then slowed down. So, it takes just a moment. Don't think anything's wrong with your device. We'll get past that part very, very quickly, really, in just moments. All right, y'all. Here you go. Everybody, I'm so excited to give you the opportunity to listen in on another conversation, this time with a dad. We don't get a lot of opportunities to hear the dad's experience in parenting a kid with so much vulnerability, so much trauma in their nervous system. So, thank you, thank you for coming and having this conversation. I'm really excited to just chat longer and give other folks the opportunity to hear your story.

 

Speaker 2  03:35

Absolutely, Robin, I'm such a big believer in the work that you've been doing, and so I just, I'm just glad to be able to come on and talk about it, and talk about the ways that it's, it's really benefited

 

Robyn Gobbel  03:48

1. Tell everybody listening just as much or as little about what you would want them to know about you as we get going with this conversation.

 

Speaker 2  03:58

Yeah, well, I was, I was in foster care. I was adopted, and so we ended up with three kiddos that came to us through the foster system about 12 years ago, and, and you know, so I run a nonprofit. We, we, we try to do a lot to help foster and adoptive families, and it was probably.. it was before the book came out, I was.. we were desperate, we were.. we needed something, and I got onto a closed Facebook group for in Texas for foster and adoptive families, and I was like, we need help, like the things that we're, we've done a lot, we've, we've gone to, we've done TBRI trainings, we've done, we've read books, we've read Karen Purve, we've done all these things, and we were just, we were desperate, like, where, where can we get. Some help, and somebody on there was like, "Hey, you need to check out this podcast, and so I started listening, and like, today it was before the book came out, probably four or five months, so you're, you're like promo in the book, and hey, the book's coming, and I pre-ordered the book, and I was like, "We're gonna, I gotta figure this out, you know, and so, so we've had a long hard journey, it really has, and so you know your work has tremendously helped us to put one foot in front of the other, keep going, keep doing the best we can,

 

Robyn Gobbel  05:41

and things are feeling particularly challenging for you right now.

 

Speaker 2  05:47

Yeah, yeah, it's been super heavy. We've had some issues come up over the last 1314 months, and so we're one kiddo is is facing some some legal issues, and then another one, and so he's not at home anymore, and then the other one, the sec, the second one ended up not being able to continue staying with us, and so we have one of the three still at home, and it has been, it has, it's been a hard, hard year,

 

Robyn Gobbel  06:30

yeah, yeah, and we've had, you know, such the deep privilege in the club of following along with your journey, and

 

Speaker 2  06:41

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  06:41

what's been.. I mean, hard is like a ridiculous word, impossible, impossible,

 

Speaker 2  06:49

yeah. It has been kind of one thing after another, after another. 2023 was a really tough year for our family. My father-in-law, one of my sister was diagnosed with stage four metastatic breast cancer in January, and then my father-in-law with colon cancer in February, and then my mom with colon cancer in March, and wow, so yeah, it was, I mean, it was just one thing after another, and I ended up starting counseling that same that same year that summer and you know the the counselors like you you've got complex PTSD,

 

Robyn Gobbel  07:30

yeah,

 

Speaker 2  07:31

and so that was just just another heavy thing

 

Robyn Gobbel  07:37

that felt like new information, yeah,

 

Speaker 2  07:42

she was like, you know, and I was like, I don't, I don't know why having this diagnosis was just having a name to it, I don't know what it was, but yeah, just was it, was just tough, I was in the Marines, and and so I'm really reeling with this diagnosis, and I ended up doing a great proposal, and there was a nonprofit in front of me, and it was a lady, and she's got a guy with her, and he's got a dog, and you know, it's a vested and everything, and I'm like, what is this, and she was like, we have this nonprofit, we pair rescue dogs with vets, train them, make a service team, and so being able to, and so there's like group things and stuff like that, but getting around other vets that have this, you know, this diagnosis was was beneficial, so I got, I got my service dog and everything that summer, but then in October, my parents died 12 days apart, right? So it was my, my mom was my dad had severe, severe Alzheimer's. I mean, he was strapped to a chair, he couldn't feed himself, he didn't open his eyes, he, he just, I mean, he was just there, and, and so my mom was taking care of him, and then she was doing the chemo and stuff. She got really sick. She went into the hospital, and so she ended up, she ended up dying. And it was Robin, you know, they, they talk about souls being, I don't know, whatever, but so she died on a Thursday. We had the service the next Tuesday, and I'll be damned if my dad wasn't crying during the service.

 

Robyn Gobbel  09:30

Wow,

 

Speaker 2  09:31

how?

 

Robyn Gobbel  09:33

Like,

 

Speaker 2  09:33

I don't.. I don't understand. Yeah, so that was on a Tuesday. Well, on Saturday he quit eating, and the next Tuesday he was gone. So, so we're so 2023 is really tough. I'm working full time trying to be a dad, running a nonprofit, and you know, just it's just like one thing after another after another, and so that's. The time the club you opened it every few months or something like that, and we're struggling, we get, we get kiddos with difficult stuff, and I'm trying to work through this stuff with my parents, and and I'm like, I'm like checking my email like every day, like, when's the club gonna open, when's it gonna open, and I just remember I was sitting at my desk in my office at the company that I was working at before I left my job to do the nonprofit full time and seeing the email it's open today and I'm like there and so I just I just kind of dove in just just dove into this community you know, fostering is a lonely journey, you know, there's there's comments, you know, we were, we were at a Mother's Day thing at church several years ago, and that's a hard day, that's a hard day, yes, and and so the this the pastor's wife would take, we're trying to take a family photo, you know, and and one of the one of the kiddos was wasn't having it, you know, and not thinking she's like, well, you know, be glad you have a mom that wants to take your picture,

 

Robyn Gobbel  11:19

oh yeah,

 

Speaker 2  11:21

right. You're like, oh my gosh, you know. And so there's.. I mean, and you've heard parents say that, you know, people say that, but in this context

 

Robyn Gobbel  11:32

it

 

Speaker 2  11:33

carries a lot more weight,

 

Robyn Gobbel  11:34

100% I do believe, generally speaking, people are well-meaning,

 

Speaker 2  11:39

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  11:40

and sometimes just a little thoughtless or a little unaware, you know, we get wrapped up in the moment, and but that must have been,

 

Speaker 2  11:48

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  11:49

really painful for you and him

 

Speaker 2  11:51

forever, yeah, like, oh my gosh, you know, and so there's there's those kinds of comments that again people aren't setting out to be mean or hurtful, but they just say things sometimes that just hit, and, and so it's, it's, it's a lonely, it's a lonely thing. People don't, they don't understand what you're going through, you know. I couldn't understand, you know, somebody's battle with leukemia, because I don't have leukemia, and I've never had anybody in my family that has had leukemia, and so, so it is, it's just heavy, lonely journey, and so I get in the club, and it is, it's a safe place to be seen, you know, and there may not be this amazing revelation of some piece of wisdom that you've never thought about before. There are that times,

 

Robyn Gobbel  12:54

but sometimes, sure, but you're right, like that's really not the best part.

 

Speaker 2  12:59

Well, no, no, the best part is being seen.

 

Robyn Gobbel  13:02

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  13:02

and somebody saying, I'm giving you a hug from 1000 miles away. I see your pain, and I see your struggle, and you know, and connecting with other people that have the same types of struggles, and they just understand, you know,

 

Robyn Gobbel  13:22

yeah, it's so powerful for me, even to have this reflected back, you know, as

 

Speaker 2  13:30

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  13:30

is when you start, when you do the same thing over and over every day, it starts to just become this rote thing that you're doing every day, and I love the club, it's hands down my truly, my absolute most favorite part of my job. If I could do only that, I absolutely would. Although I do feel a lot of motivation to continue doing the work that I do, training professionals, because I know that that's such a pain point for parents, right? As they can't find anyone to help them, or if they, you end up finding somebody, but they're booked six months out, 100% like there's just not enough. Plus, you know, you know this as kind of, you have your foot in both, right, as a parent and as a professional, like you do this for work too, and it's easy to burn out when you do

 

Speaker 2  14:17

this work. And

 

Robyn Gobbel  14:19

so, so I am very committed to my work as professionals, but it really is the club and y'all that have my, have my absolute heart, and it is still just grounding, you know, to have these opportunities to connect with some of you individually and hear how this thing that I just like dreamed up a couple years ago, five, maybe five years ago now. That's kind of bonkers, you know. How it's impacting you, which was, of course, my goal, because I know exactly what you're saying, like it's isolating. Nobody gets it. I can't find any of their parents who get it. I can't find a professional who gets it. And I was like, okay, we're gonna fix. That problem, we fix that problem.

 

Speaker 2  15:02

Yeah, and I love it. I mean, I've actually, so my kids have been in counselors, and I've actually given them a copy of your book. It's like, will you read this so we can speak the same language, you know?

 

Robyn Gobbel  15:15

Well, that's really helpful.

 

Speaker 2  15:16

Yeah, I mean, I just.. it's just, you know, and that doesn't even.. we haven't even talked about the book. I mean, the book has been just.. I mean, listening to the podcast is fantastic, but you sit down with Nat, you know, and on the first page she's like, I knew it was going to be hard, I didn't know it was going to be this hard, and I said that, and my wife has said that I knew more because of my background, I had a better handle on kind of what we would be looking at, but not, but Nick, my wife, just really, she didn't have my experience, and so, so just sitting with Nat as you, as you go through these sessions with her, and, and really begin to unpack and understand why, why does, why does connection, I need connection, but it doesn't feel safe, you know, and so then I reject

 

Robyn Gobbel  16:22

1. Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  16:22

you know, just, just following this journey, and, and, and seeing, you know, yourself and your, your kids in this journey, walking through it, and really, you know, I've read a bunch, you know, read Dr. Perry's book with Oprah. You know, what happened to you? It's a great book. It's a really great book, and you know, Karen Purvis, and all these, all these different great, great books. But you know, when we provide a placement package to family that's bringing kiddos into their home, they get a copy of your book, not Oprah's, and not somebody else's, because we, we felt the, the impact in our, in our journey, and you know, and the feedback that I've gotten from families too is like, man, when I sat down to read, right? It's not. I don't know how many hundreds of copies that we've given out, and some of them, they're.. it's not being read. And then it's like, okay, I picked up this book, and oh my gosh, it really, it really helped. It really did. It just. your metaphors are just hit different than than anything that that we've that we've experienced, and so it's, it's just, it's just empowering, and it's encouraging to, you know, to learn more about why things are the way they are, and maybe how to help,

 

Robyn Gobbel  18:05

and maybe how to help. No, it's so funny because people come to any kind of thing, like a book or a pot, any kind of thing that offers information, right? Certainly, they come to it with, please give me information that will help, of course. Why else would we seek it out?

 

Speaker 2  18:24

Yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  18:24

and and then I hear so often exactly what you're saying, like, well, yeah, it was kind of helpful in like telling me what to do, but what was really helpful was this other piece of really experiencing like somebody gets it. I like what you've said about, you know, how Nat says, you know, I knew it would be hard, and it would be this hard, and that you all also thought that I hear that a lot from parents too, with a lot of different things throughout the book, and I'm so aware of the privilege that I've had to sit with I I mean, at this point 1000s of gnats,

 

Speaker 2  19:06

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  19:06

and everyone's story is, of course, so different, but there is a very common thread through all of them, yeah. I was really able to lean into that to kind of make up Nat,

 

Speaker 2  19:19

yeah, yeah, and I do, I mean, it's been, it's been tremendous. I mean, like I said, the podcast, the club, the book, there, it's just kind of all comes together to, to, to just try to keep putting one foot in front of the other and moving, moving forward, and doing the best, doing the best that you, you can, you know, yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  19:42

we were talking before we hit record, and of course, we've been.. I've been following your journey. Everyone in the club has been following your journey for a long time now, and your experience is almost this kind of textbook exam. Example of things can be impossible, like literally impossible. There is zero choice that's good, and how easy it is to fall into like hopelessness and despair when that's true, that's just a core human experience, right? When there's no solution, you usually give up and shift into learned helplessness, and I'm sure that's been true for you at times, but I also do watch you continue to kind of hold on to this thread of I don't know if it's hope or just like even when things are impossible, you know, we can still keep going. I don't know what. How would you describe that?

 

Speaker 2  20:51

Maybe perseverance.

 

Robyn Gobbel  20:53

Okay,

 

Speaker 2  20:53

and hope is a big one. I do a thing every morning where it's.. I've worked with this business coach for a while, and he kind of developed this journal, and so the I start, you start with gratitude statements, I am statements, and then kind of a character trait that you want to kind of focus on for the day, and so many times it's endurance, it's perseverance, it's just doing the best you can every day to to keep keep going and keep trying to keep trying to connect keep trying to to help you know and you know and do like said do the best do the best that you can

 

Robyn Gobbel  21:40

How does it feel like the connection piece, or being witnessed by people, or especially, I think, being true, having people truly be with you without some, you know, false idea that they could actually make things better for you, right? Like, they can't, they can't, right? Wait, we actually really literally cannot change anything about what's happening for you, and there is still seems like there's something that's helpful.

 

Speaker 2  22:16

No, yeah, yeah, you say you say you can't help, but at the same time you can,

 

Robyn Gobbel  22:20

yeah,

 

Speaker 2  22:20

because just being connected to folks that, that get it, they've, they've walked it, you know, it may not change a kiddo's behavior or this or that, but you know, borrowing honestly the co-regulation from the group,

 

Robyn Gobbel  22:40

yeah,

 

Speaker 2  22:41

helps me stay regulated a little bit longer, right? It's not.. I'm certainly not, you know, able to just stay in connection mode, of course. Me either, but being able to to just borrow that co regulation from the group, not, and then not necessarily when I'm sitting there writing it, but just just knowing that there's people out there that that see you, that get you, that care about you and your kids, and all the things that it helps you. I've, my, my, my wife has not really gotten into the club, and a couple weeks ago I moved the app to the top row of her phone, home screen, top of the row, and I'm like, babe, I'm just telling you, if you will, if you will get in there and just talk to some folks that get

 

Robyn Gobbel  23:56

it,

 

Speaker 2  23:56

yeah, you'll, you'll be more connected, you'll be more regulated, it's, it's beneficial, and you know, and so I mean, I just believe very, very much that, that being in the club and being with people that know they, they're not, they're not all foster and adoptive families who have been through what we've been through, but they're all struggling with behaviors from kiddos that that are heavily dysregulated for for for whatever reason and and and so while it's it's true that there's you can't step in and fix anything, but if you can stay a little bit more connected and regulated a little bit longer than then it does help,

 

Robyn Gobbel  24:46

yeah. Do you feel like it's helped you stay out of the place of like despair a little bit more, or not necessarily?

 

Speaker 2  24:59

No, yeah. Mean, you know, sometimes you know it's pulling the poison out and just putting it on the page, you know, so sometimes it is coming in there and just saying I am just struggling right now, and, and, and so just sometimes being able to get that out is beneficial, but then when you get the feedback from folks saying I'm sorry, I see your pain,

 

Speaker 3  25:29

helpful,

 

Robyn Gobbel  25:30

yeah, and and your story's not too big for us, right? right, like we're not like withdrawing in horror or like, oh, we don't talk about that kind of stuff here, like, there's nothing shocking, no, in the club,

 

Speaker 2  25:48

because we're all, we're all in it together, you know,

 

Robyn Gobbel  25:53

yeah, I'm hoping that folks listening are also feeling just a little bit of hope that when we're you're in a situation that does feel so hopeless and like I mean I'm no that place too of like I'll never feel better it will be bad like this forever and because of the work that I do I don't have a lot of agenda to pull people out of that place, and instead I think about how can I join them in that place, because once we feel connected and seen, the nervous system tends to move out of that place on its own.

 

Speaker 2  26:38

Yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  26:40

so I'm hoping folks listening can like maybe feel the hope in that, and then I also know a lot of professionals listen, and so I am always hopeful that professionals will feel the permission to do that same thing. I know that in our professional roles, and regardless of what that role is, somebody somewhere is like paying us for something, like it's how we're, you know, making that's how things work here. And there can be what I've seen a lot of professionals is once it shifts into that role, right, of like somebody's paying me for something, whether it's the actual person in front of me or my organization or an insurance company. It feels it gets harder to believe that the power of just like staying present with someone,

 

Speaker 2  27:36

right,

 

Robyn Gobbel  27:37

is the.. that is the work.

 

Speaker 2  27:40

Yeah, it absolutely is. I mean, you know, you, you know, there may be some, some wisdom that's, that's shared, and you hope that there is,

 

Robyn Gobbel  27:49

of course,

 

Speaker 2  27:51

but you know, healing, healing comes from connection.

 

Robyn Gobbel  27:55

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  27:56

I mean, it just does. That's that's that's where it has to come from. I mean, where else is it going to come from, you know, and so you know whether you're a counselor sitting across the table or coffee table from somebody or you know just, you know, and maybe it's maybe it's take, take that and apply it, you know, in your friend circles, in your circles at church or something, you know, you don't have to be.. I don't know, how.. I don't even know who all in the club is a counselor, I mean, I don't know, and so, but there's a lot that aren't..

 

Robyn Gobbel  28:38

oh, for sure, the vast majority, although it is common in this kind of work to do both, right, to be the parent of a kiddo who's really struggling, and also to do this work professionally. So we have a lot, a lot, a lot of folks who, who are both right, right, but it's certainly for people in their parenting role, right, like it's not for,

 

Speaker 2  29:00

and that's, and that's what I'm getting at, is so many people that are in there that are, yeah, they're not, they're not counselors,

 

Robyn Gobbel  29:08

right,

 

Speaker 2  29:08

they're not licensed, they're not social workers, they're just parents, yes, who, who were on the road to,

 

Robyn Gobbel  29:16

yes,

 

Speaker 2  29:17

heading in the right direction, in the same direction, you know, and that is just, that's like, said, that's where the healing comes from, that's where the ability to, to keep moving forward is, is, is, and so, yeah, I mean, some, and maybe, maybe it's maybe like I said, and maybe it's not in the club, but maybe you've got a friend that's that's in the fight, and it, whether it's this fight or a different fight, the principles the same, exactly.

 

Robyn Gobbel  29:51

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  29:51

connecting with people is, is, is that, that's where the work is, that's where the healing is, you know. We, we do the. Placement packages, and I tell people all the time, we're bringing foster families some clothes, or some diapers, and a suitcase, and a Bible, and a teddy bear, and all these things, we're meeting a physical need.

 

Robyn Gobbel  30:15

Yes,

 

Speaker 2  30:16

but that's not what people talk about

 

Robyn Gobbel  30:18

100% Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  30:20

they talk about the fact that somebody cared enough to load up a suitcase full of new stuff and drive it to my front door. That's that is the, that is my work, that is, is the is the blessing that we're, we're giving these families is hope and connection in this, you know, we try to be there within 24 hours of when a kiddo gets placed, and you know we're trying to speak to the kiddo, you're valuable, this place is safe, there's a comforting, soft, loving blanket, you know, to make you feel a little bit more comfortable, and so the kiddos get the feedback that I'm going through hell right now. Yeah, right.

 

Robyn Gobbel  31:13

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  31:13

nothing's familiar. Everything I'm here because something terrible has happened, and somebody, somebody cared enough to bring me a suitcase full of stuff, and then, and, and then, for the family that's welcoming these kiddos into their home, they, they feel seen, they feel valuable, they, they feel that connection, because it's, it's chaos, you know, those first couple days are just absolute chaos, and so, so that's, that's, that's the work of the of our placement package is, is that connection, right?

 

Robyn Gobbel  31:55

I've, it feels like what you're saying so mirrors what I work so hard to teach in, like, the immersion program, right, where we're teaching professionals this, this again. People come to the immersion program wanting to learn a lot of tools. Some are super overt about that. Some come in and say, I'm just here because I want to be able to teach your stuff, I want this too, I want to know what to do, and I, when this xyz happens, and zero people talk about the tools that they learned at the end of the year, literally zero.

 

Speaker 2  32:26

I have no doubt.

 

Robyn Gobbel  32:27

I have never gotten feedback that was about how awesome the tools were, and I don't think that means that they weren't. I think you know people are pretty satisfied with the amount of tools they're walking away with, but that it almost like fades into the background and becomes kind of secondary,

 

Speaker 2  32:52

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  32:52

when it's like layered on top of this other thing, right, the connection, the presence that is impossible to get or understand that unless you've experienced it, which is why I structured the program the way I have, too, because those folks need to experience it as well, so they leave with, like, oh yeah, the tools are cool, but it's actually this other thing that's really important, and yeah, we need a tool, like, you need, you need something to show up with, you need the package, and it is helpful, is helpful, and it's almost like it's the thing that it's like the delivery system, like, because of this package, I'm showing up on your front door

 

Speaker 2  33:40

exactly,

 

Robyn Gobbel  33:41

but I'm not showing up just to get, you know, like that's just what got me here. What I'm really here to give you is this, and I think that professionals start to feel so much more comfortable with that too. That's like, yeah, we've got some helpful tools, thank goodness, right? Because I know for you space, like parents come in and like, please, please give me some idea, like, yes, absolutely, we can do that. And what actually is really going to change your life is this other piece we can't do one without the other.

 

Speaker 2  34:13

No, no. And that's why, you know, that's why you know, if you don't, if you don't, if you've got a counselor and you don't feel connected like we're on the same wavelength, then you probably need to on a different counselor, because you, you have to be feel safe enough to to be open to that connection, to have to have the opportunity to to find healing, you know, and in all these different ways of doing that, whether it's connecting with fictional Nat,

 

Robyn Gobbel  34:48

totally

 

Speaker 2  34:48

page,

 

Robyn Gobbel  34:49

yep,

 

Speaker 2  34:49

or the podcast, or or the club, or or whatever it is, I mean, that's, that's like, said, that's where the work is, it's it's connection.

 

Robyn Gobbel  35:01

Yeah, yeah, that was one of my top goals, you know. And I really sat down and was like, I have a very vivid memory, actually, being on the treadmill, just walking on the treadmill, and having the thought of writing a book in my mind. You know, people have talked about that for a long time and have wanted me to write one, and I really felt committed to, like, if I'm going to write a book that people are going to invest their time in reading, like, I just want, I want it to be different, like, I don't want it to be just another parenting book with a bunch of tools, like, I just don't see how that's helpful. These tools are really not. I mean, sure, they're presented in a unique way, and it's a unique way that lands with people, and that's wonderful, but I'm like, that's really not what people need. People don't really need to read another book full of tools. What they really need is the things you're talking about, right, to be seen, presence, to be like someone for someone to like really show up and be like, you're worth it.

 

Speaker 2  35:59

Yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  36:00

and I was like, can I do that in a book?

 

Speaker 2  36:02

Yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  36:02

and I really try, and I

 

Speaker 2  36:03

think you,

 

Robyn Gobbel  36:04

yeah,

 

Speaker 2  36:04

I think you hit the nail on the head with it. I mean, you just, you know, it does, it hits, and you know, and you feel connected to you, you feel kind of a sense of community with Nat, yeah, somebody understands, and it's the same in the club, I mean, it's, you know, people, people value each other, they see each other, and they just, they just want to be with them, just help them.

 

Robyn Gobbel  36:32

And I think, tell me, what you think about this too, because you, you come into the club in both ways, like you come in needing help and needing support, need to be seen, and needing correlation, but you come in in the other world too, right? You offer a lot.

 

Speaker 2  36:46

Absolutely.

 

Robyn Gobbel  36:47

Does it feel like that piece is helpful as well, like being in the having the capacity to offer?

 

Speaker 2  36:54

Absolutely, I mean, you want, you know, you, you see somebody else's struggle, and you know I need that.

 

Robyn Gobbel  37:02

Yeah.

 

Speaker 2  37:03

Well, right now they need that.

 

Robyn Gobbel  37:05

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  37:06

you know, and they need to be seen and heard. And again, there maybe there's a piece of advice or something, but honestly, the majority of the time for me when I sing, when I'm seeing somebody struggle, I'm not throwing out some try to nugget of wisdom. It's

 

Robyn Gobbel  37:28

right,

 

Speaker 2  37:28

it's just I'm so sorry, I'm with you right now. I see you, and so that's, you know, it's it's kind of that it's a two-way street, really. I mean,

 

Robyn Gobbel  37:40

oh yeah,

 

Speaker 2  37:40

you're, you're, you're, you're receiving co-regulation, but you're also, you're also giving it, and that's, and that's, that's beneficial.

 

Robyn Gobbel  37:49

I also really agree. I think that's one of the important pieces, and it's also an important piece to be clear with folks, it's not a requirement, right, that it really feels authentic and spontaneous,

 

Speaker 2  38:07

exactly. Yeah, and

 

Robyn Gobbel  38:08

it comes at a certain stage of the journey and can kind of ebb and flow, but I'm offering that, just, you know, one of the things that I think would be wonderful if there were more things like the club, and so if folks are can listen and kind of hear you articulate some of the things that have been exceptionally helpful for you, and then they're in a position where they could create something or start something, especially local, right? I mean, that is one of the drawbacks of the club, right? Is that, I mean, it's amazing that we have people from all over the world, but we're not getting together in person, and so I think for people to hear, you know, some of the things that have been so impactful for parents is hopefully then going to kind of inspire other people to weave some of those ideas into the, you know, groups they've already created, or maybe with creating some group, and just like you've said, you do know how to be a professional for this, like,

 

Speaker 2  39:08

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  39:08

I didn't learn this. We

 

Speaker 2  39:09

have any, we haven't really even talked about the Connect, the co-regulation time. Oh, yeah, and all the other stuff that's in there too, that's that's phenomenal resources, but, man, yeah, man alive, it's just, you know, if you're, if you're desperate and you need, you need some connection, and to help you move, move the needle, I mean,

 

Robyn Gobbel  39:34

yeah, that's

 

Speaker 2  39:35

where it's at.

 

Robyn Gobbel  39:36

One of the things I've heard you say that I think would be a really lovely place to kind of end on or wrap up here is about how this experience and kind of cultivating some increased regulation and receiving presence and connection and being able to offer presence and connection, this hasn't only helped you at. A parent, or even just at work, like this has changed the way I assume you kind of show up in the world, how you interact with the person who checks you out at the grocery store, and

 

Speaker 2  40:11

right, yeah, I mean, you, we, you, when you go through the history that that I did, you know, in care, and then adopted, and then, and it was not a great home life, you know. It's harder to, to, to be, you know, open for that connection. Yes, and so, so having that, though, it's a, it's a, it's a tool, it's co-regulation helps in, in all the ways, right, whether it's, you know, delivering a placement package and being able to to really connect with somebody that's that's receiving that, or it's somebody at church, or you know, some somebody that's hacked off for some reason.

 

Robyn Gobbel  41:05

Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  41:05

you know it changed it when you, when you have in mind that the co-regulation and being able to stay, keep the owl brain a little bit longer, that helps you be open and more, more able to connect with folks when, when, when they're out and about in the world, and, and not, you know,

 

Robyn Gobbel  41:34

yeah,

 

Speaker 2  41:35

not, not that they're not in a super great place, you know,

 

Robyn Gobbel  41:40

you're making me think of a story that I'll share really quick, that just over the weekend we were driving home from Texas, so 20 plus hour road trip,

 

Speaker 2  41:49

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  41:49

we went through a drive-through, so I think we, we stopped at a Whataburger, because you know we can't get Water Burger up here, right, so we're like, before we leave Water Burger Land, right, so we're in, we were like quick detour off the freeway, right, because we got this like huge trip,

 

Speaker 2  42:06

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  42:07

we were in this Whataburger line for like a bajillion years, the woman working and like taking our order over the speaker, but then also we realized was the person at the window too was so overwhelmed,

 

Speaker 2  42:22

sure,

 

Robyn Gobbel  42:22

so overwhelmed. I mean, it was every year they were so backed up.

 

Speaker 2  42:26

Yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  42:26

it was, and oh my gosh, and this sweet woman was just working so hard. She clearly was working so hard. So then, okay, finally we actually get to the window, and you know, my husband and I just happened to be in a great place that day. That's not how we always handle interactions, but we just both were, especially him. He was driving, was just able, like we were just like, how are you? It feels like a lot's going on. She's like, she said, it's my first day.

 

Speaker 2  42:57

Oh my god,

 

Robyn Gobbel  42:58

I'm like, first of all, where is your health? How is this possible? They left you like this, and so I'm like, you are doing awesome for your first day, and she's like, thank you. And then my husband's like, again, he was closer, and it was very clear, because also we were at that window for a while, because everything was very slow. Oh, and she gave us food that wasn't even ours, like we opened it up, and I'm like, I'm so sorry, but this isn't ours, so that we had to give it back, so it was so clear as we drove away that, like, the interaction we had with this woman took her nervous system down a notch,

 

Speaker 2  43:32

exactly,

 

Robyn Gobbel  43:34

and I just, I did, I felt so just grateful for that opportunity to this woman who's like I'm like it's your first day, who has abandoned you here, like so frantic, he was keeping a smile on her face, and like just truly so grateful that we could be who we were in that moment, again, we're not always that regulated, but in that moment, and just really take a moment to connect with her, and like slow down, tell her she's doing a great job, and driving away, believing or hoping maybe that that impacted her first day at work.

 

Speaker 2  44:18

Yeah, for sure, and yeah, if we can take that and apply it.

 

Robyn Gobbel  44:23

Yes,

 

Speaker 2  44:24

all the places I've

 

Robyn Gobbel  44:25

really thought for a long time, and I don't say this too often, because I don't want us to feel like pressure, but I've really thought for a long, long, long, for decades, like folks like y'all in the club, you are changing the world, and it's not your job to do that. Your job is to take care of your kids, and you know, do the things you need to do, take care of yourself. But I really believe, because of what we've just talked about, because you don't have an option to kind of find your way eventually to this. Truth of I'm completely out of control. The only thing I can do is be present with myself, so I can try to be present with other people and try to offer as much connection and co-regulation and receive as much. I mean, ultimately, that's kind of what it all boils down to. But you really have to be in a pretty tremendous amount of crisis to come face to face with that reality,

 

Speaker 2  45:21

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  45:22

and you know, folks in the club are living that crisis every day, they just can't escape that reality, and I really, I've believed this for so, so, so long, like y'all are the ones who are going to change the mess that we're all in, you know, with all the dysregulation globally, and because you have no other choice,

 

Speaker 2  45:46

yeah,

 

Robyn Gobbel  45:46

and again, it's not your job, it's not an added responsibility for you, it's just happening because of how you show up in the world differently. So I want you to know, I really see that too,

 

Speaker 2  45:58

I see and appreciate so, so much the work that you're doing, you know, and whoever that random person was on that mustard dump Facebook group that pointed me to your podcast, golly, thank you to them, because that was such a benefit.

 

Robyn Gobbel  46:20

Yeah, it's been really delightful to talk with you again. This is our second time being able to do this, and I'm just so grateful for the work that you're doing in the world, is amazing, but also, you know, I have so much gratitude for adults who have their own histories of complex trauma, who can give some like narration to their inner experience, because it's almost.. it's a lot harder for kids to do that, and I've learned so much about what kids are experiencing, because the grown-ups can kind of articulate what's happening for them. So I really am grateful to you for that as well.

 

Speaker 2  46:59

Oh,

 

Robyn Gobbel  47:00

thanks. Yeah,

 

Speaker 2  47:00

thanks, and thanks for your work.

 

Robyn Gobbel  47:01

Yes, thank you for taking the time to be with me this morning. I've really enjoyed it.

 

Speaker 2  47:07

Yeah, me too. It's always good.

 

Robyn Gobbel  47:09

Yeah,